Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
That's an insult, if I ever heard one. Yes, some of them do know Jesus. Don't replace what you define as the Church teachings on someone else's relationship with Christ.
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Easter/Lent (Poll for a nagging question)
- Thread starter Unveiled Artist
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Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
That should pin the tail on the donkey. Catholics don't worship multiple deities; and that's how scripture defines paganism, the practice of worshiping more than one deity other than God and God alone.
Also, you are right. Lent is not in the Bible. It's not even a celebration. It's just preparing oneself to ask Jesus to be one's Lord and Savior by abstaining from habits to tell God I love you more than my flesh.
Lent is no more pagan than prayer is.
And you're right, Easter as we see it today is not in the Bible. Rather, what we call Easter is the day of Christ's resurrection. Nothing more. His resurrection is not pagan. Easter isn't either.
I do feel it's fair to point out that many (NOT all, and I seriously doubt even most) Catholic Saints are Old Gods repackaged. Saint Jove, for example, is Jupiter. Saint Brigid is, as well, a Gaelic Goddess.
BUT while I tend to think of these Saints as the Old Gods disguising themselves so they can survive, that does not translate to Catholics "worshiping multiple deities". That would involve treating the Saints in the same way that they treat God, which they don't.
kjw47
Well-Known Member
Which church teaches this--Matt 5:5? Blessed are the meek for they( great multitude, will inherit the EARTH.---- churches throw this truth away and teach--heaven or hell as the end.
I state facts not insults. Truth is truth--the world hates truth--they murdered Jesus, apostles and true followers back then, because truth exposes wickedness, most reject it today.
Which church teachers teach--Jesus has a God-his Father?---none--they teach a non existent trinity--this is what Jesus and his real teachers teach--John 20:17, Rev 3:12--2Cor 1:3, 1Cor 8:6, 1Cor 15:24-28--1Peter 1:3--Rev 1:6-- all 100% in agreement--Jesus has a God-his Father--making this the bottom line reality of all truth--John 4:22-24.the Father is YHVH(Jehovah)
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
True, they don't treat the Saints as they treat God. I actually don't see the correlation between the Saints being Gods, though. The Catholic Church still "makes people" saints (for example, Mother Teresa) and she was definitely human.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I can't make out what you're saying.
I am just saying, if someone says they are Catholic do not assume they believe in the "devil's teachings" or however it's put because they devote themselves to Christ within a Church. Each person has a unique relationship with Christ. If we judge someone, we should do so individually. Attacking the Church is attacking the people. That is highly insulting. It's best to talk to the individual person. Then you can correct them, point of scripture, and so forth to nurture their faith in Christ. Generalization of people's belief based on what you understand the Church to believe is not right. Talk to the person one on one. When I was in the Catholic Church, my perspective of Christ and the Church was different than the person next to me. That does not make me less Catholic. That also doesn't make me someone who follows false teachings.
I am just saying, if someone says they are Catholic do not assume they believe in the "devil's teachings" or however it's put because they devote themselves to Christ within a Church. Each person has a unique relationship with Christ. If we judge someone, we should do so individually. Attacking the Church is attacking the people. That is highly insulting. It's best to talk to the individual person. Then you can correct them, point of scripture, and so forth to nurture their faith in Christ. Generalization of people's belief based on what you understand the Church to believe is not right. Talk to the person one on one. When I was in the Catholic Church, my perspective of Christ and the Church was different than the person next to me. That does not make me less Catholic. That also doesn't make me someone who follows false teachings.
kjw47
Well-Known Member
I attack false teachings not people--I am trying to help them see truth--it can be harsh.
1Cor 1:10-- all united in thought--no division. To be a true follower one must become one with God and his son--the living to do Gods will( Matt 7:21)-- one must have truth--John 4:22-24---- it is abundant now here in these last days-Daniel 12:4
Gods word forewarned of the great apostasy that would rise-2Thess 2:3--- and these teachers-2Cor 11:12-15
People call my religion a cult all the time--I don't let it bother me-- I have started every sight with 6 teachings from Jesus and I have been booted out of some--every trinity follower rejects them -, because they do not know them. and are not taught them. I was even told Jesus had nothing to do with his 6 teachings I have shown them, yet they are in every translation on the earth. I ask them to believe Jesus over mens dogmas and they will not.
truth can be offensive--they murdered all of them because of the rejection of Jesus' truths back then--to this day the world does not like them. Few like and believe them--Jesus foresaw this when he taught---enter through the narrow gate, for cramped is the road that leads off into life( eternal) FEW will find it. For many have entered the broad and spacious path( followers of the world) that leads to destruction( not eternal suffering)
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I understand. It comes off as putting their beliefs down (hence attacking them). If I attacked Jesus, I would be attacking His followers. Can you explain the six teachings without scripture verses? It disturbs my eyes trying to figure out what you're saying.
What is your religion? I assumed you have a relationship with Christ just as a lot of Catholics, Baptist, Non denominational, and Jehovah Witnesses do. I would never tell you your teachings are wrong based on how I see Christ. Educate rather than correct sometimes comes off better to people who differ in the ways they devote themselves to Christ.
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Every time I hear the words religion of men, dogma, and its relation to Catholicism, I just want to laugh sometimes and others I just get insulted. It's not that I deny that there is dogma in the Church. The Church differs in their devotion just as a JW does to a Baptist. Interestingly enough, they all want to correct each other on Jesus' teachings as if they are the only ones who have the correct interpretations of it.
Every Christian's relationship with Christ is unique. Some can be far away from Him and Christ knows they are growing in Him. While others, He knows are close yet He continues to open their hearts to new knowledge from other Christians of all denominations they might not have considered before.
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I have to tell you honestly. To see beyond the dogma, you have to take the sacraments of Christ. You have to participate (mind, body, and soul) in Mass and know that when you are in communion with like-minded people, you are in communion with Christ. By that, when you take communion, you will be in one unison--His Body.
A relationship with the Christ through the Catholic Church is no more dogma than a relationship with Christ through Jehovah Witness meetings. They are different and they are not against Christ's teachings.
What I find awful is ex-catholics and anti-catholics putting down Church teachings (by scripture or not) because of what they learned from it and/or from the bias of their experiences growing up. Not all Churches are like that. I had a priest in New York that told me "the devil made me do it" and another one in VA that spend three hours showing me how God has forgiven me for my sins. Also, people research CCC teachings and conclude its against the Bible.
Even worse, their bias views may be based on their age and the time period of what the Church put in their dogma and how priest and teachers treat people twenty years ago compared today.
Judging a person's relationship with Christ off of secondary information whether through bias, past experiences, or research is wrong and immoral. I know I would never expose scripture in a way that will put down any person's faith no matter how wrong I believe it is.
Everyone's relationship with Christ is different. God knows this. Christ knows this. Why not Christians?
What is your religion? I assumed you have a relationship with Christ just as a lot of Catholics, Baptist, Non denominational, and Jehovah Witnesses do. I would never tell you your teachings are wrong based on how I see Christ. Educate rather than correct sometimes comes off better to people who differ in the ways they devote themselves to Christ.
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Every time I hear the words religion of men, dogma, and its relation to Catholicism, I just want to laugh sometimes and others I just get insulted. It's not that I deny that there is dogma in the Church. The Church differs in their devotion just as a JW does to a Baptist. Interestingly enough, they all want to correct each other on Jesus' teachings as if they are the only ones who have the correct interpretations of it.
Every Christian's relationship with Christ is unique. Some can be far away from Him and Christ knows they are growing in Him. While others, He knows are close yet He continues to open their hearts to new knowledge from other Christians of all denominations they might not have considered before.
--
I have to tell you honestly. To see beyond the dogma, you have to take the sacraments of Christ. You have to participate (mind, body, and soul) in Mass and know that when you are in communion with like-minded people, you are in communion with Christ. By that, when you take communion, you will be in one unison--His Body.
A relationship with the Christ through the Catholic Church is no more dogma than a relationship with Christ through Jehovah Witness meetings. They are different and they are not against Christ's teachings.
What I find awful is ex-catholics and anti-catholics putting down Church teachings (by scripture or not) because of what they learned from it and/or from the bias of their experiences growing up. Not all Churches are like that. I had a priest in New York that told me "the devil made me do it" and another one in VA that spend three hours showing me how God has forgiven me for my sins. Also, people research CCC teachings and conclude its against the Bible.
Even worse, their bias views may be based on their age and the time period of what the Church put in their dogma and how priest and teachers treat people twenty years ago compared today.
Judging a person's relationship with Christ off of secondary information whether through bias, past experiences, or research is wrong and immoral. I know I would never expose scripture in a way that will put down any person's faith no matter how wrong I believe it is.
Everyone's relationship with Christ is different. God knows this. Christ knows this. Why not Christians?
It's not a correlation; it's a well-known fact that many of the Old Gods were repackaged into legendary human saints. That was a common practice in the early days of European Christianity to humanize the Old Gods into Saints, Kings, or Heroes. It allowed the various people to hold on to their beloved stories in a context that was still compatible with the new religion.
The majority of Catholic and Orthodox Saints are still likely to have been historical humans, though.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
My whole post got deleted. Hate this Java script.I was trying to say the Catholic Church went to many places to convert people and the country residents had to dub their gods to the saints. Similar to Lucumi faith in Africa. While the Orishas are not Gods, they had to dub the Orishas (spirits of nature is the best I can think of; not paganism) with the Saints and when it reached Cuba, it hit and turned into Santeria instead. I don't know if people practice Lucumi here in the states. Mostly Santeria, that I know of.
It's sad, really. Makes me wonder why I joined the Church. If I knew its history beforehand, I would have never joined.
NulliuSINverba
Active Member
The word "Easter" does appear to be derived from the name of a pagan goddess ("Eostre"). The Christian monk Bede asserted as much in his 8th century treatise De temporum ratione ("The Reckoning of Time"):
~ from De temporum ratione (translated by Faith Wallis, Liverpool University Press 1988, pp.53-54).The Venerable Bede said:
The boldface is mine, of course.
Editorial Aside: The translator has rendered the original "Ēosturmōnaþ" as "Eosturmonath." How sad that our modern English finds itself de-thorned!
If you're at all interested in the original manuscripts, it appears that you can view them here and here. The relevant material appears to begin under the red "XV" heading ("De mensibus Anglorum") near the bottom of the first page and continues on the second page linked.
Here is a transcription of the same manuscript. In case you need it.
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It's probably worth noting that this appears to be the sole surviving reference to Eostre. So take it all with a bead of salt, I suppose.
Doug Shaver
Member
I believe all Christian practices, not excluding communion, originated as pagan rituals that the church assimilated at some time during its history.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
NulliuSINverba
Active Member
You had said that you kept hearing that Lent and Easter were pagan holidays. I tried to supply some evidence that the word "Easter" is indeed derived from a pagan source.
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That's all.
NulliuSINverba
Active Member
Mi scuso per aver parlato inglese su un forum italiano. Ho dimenticato che l'italiano è una lingua universale. Si prega di perdonare l'intrusione.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Ah. I have so many threads. I forget what i post when no one replies in so long.
lovemuffin
τὸν ἄρτον τοῦ ἔρωτος
The thing about the derivation from the name "eosturmonath" is that the adoption of the name is more about the fact that it's the same month in which Pascha (the greek name) occurs than about pulling in pagan practices specifically. Although of course that has happened also, i.e with easter eggs and the like. It seems to me that to say "Easter is a pagan holiday" overstates the point quite dramatically. Easter is a celebration of the resurrection of Christ, which certainly is not a pagan festival. The more limited point that culturally, in various little ways, Christian practice in some cultures has incorporated elements of the existing religions and practices from those same cultures is certainly true. What doesn't necessarily follow is that this is somehow a terrible thing. Christianity pretty much began as an interesting meeting between Jewish/Semitic religion and Hellenic culture, and owes a great deal to that Greek culture almost regardless of denomination.
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metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Questo non è un forum italiano quindi non c'è bisogno di scusarsi.
Mi scuso per aver parlato inglese su un forum italiano. Ho dimenticato che l'italiano è una lingua universale. Si prega di perdonare l'intrusione.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I have a question for protestants:
I love seeing the breaking of the Bread / Lamb of God in Communion because after God blesses the hosts (the same as we pray over food), we know that this blessing has "brought us back in time" so that it is present day were we sit and physically, spiritually, and mentally present with the Lord and eat of the lamb.
We don't just remember this event, we are a part of it.
Do you have the same outlook in meaning in you church or is it worship in memory of rather than part of communion whether we call it a meeting, sermon, or Mass?
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Which also makes me think why we have a hissy fit over a priest praying over someone, hosts, and water when a lot of Christians and believers in many faiths pray over food.
Whats up with that; what is the difference?...the blessings dont come from the priest and person, they come from God.
I love seeing the breaking of the Bread / Lamb of God in Communion because after God blesses the hosts (the same as we pray over food), we know that this blessing has "brought us back in time" so that it is present day were we sit and physically, spiritually, and mentally present with the Lord and eat of the lamb.
We don't just remember this event, we are a part of it.
Do you have the same outlook in meaning in you church or is it worship in memory of rather than part of communion whether we call it a meeting, sermon, or Mass?
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Which also makes me think why we have a hissy fit over a priest praying over someone, hosts, and water when a lot of Christians and believers in many faiths pray over food.
Whats up with that; what is the difference?...the blessings dont come from the priest and person, they come from God.
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