Sorry Carlita, but when you don't use the quote feature I don't get an alert.
Hmm. You make some good points. Let me ask, what do you define as paganism? Is it a strict definition, those outside the abrahamic religions?
Just like the simple definition of a "Jew" as opposed to a "gentile" meant anyone who was not part of Jehovah's nation, so "pagan" is by definition, any belief system that has teachings that are outside of Biblical origin.
The Jews were commanded by God not to adopt the beliefs or practices of the surrounding nations. (Deut 18:9-12)
That is not to say that they obeyed him......Christendom too has fallen into the same trap. The majority of their beliefs and practices are not based on the teachings of Jesus, but are introduced doctrines borrowed from paganism, (Or more correctly, non-Christian/non-Jewish sources) a very long time ago.
So its not the painting eggs itself, its the connection with the practice to pagan holidays. Let me ask, your God doesnt care about the ignorance or lack of adherance to pagan beliefa but rather sees the practices and objects in themselves bad? Do they have some type of magic power withoit the person using them for pagan purposes?
Well I guess we have to ask why humans have a propensity to gravitate to pagan beliefs in the first place? If God told his people to remain separate from the ways of the nations in their religious practices, then why do we incorporate them? What is there that we find appealing about them when God tells is not to participate in them?
If I were to offer you a glass of water but I told you that it was a bit poisoned, would you ask how much it was poisoned before you drank it? Or would the fact that it is poisoned at all make you want to throw it away just to be safe?
It is as if I believe the Buddha said dont use the bible in your practice because it is against the Buddhas teachings. Instead of using it for christian purposes, I read it out of interest. If I (example) used it with intent of christian practice and called it a Buddhist teaching, that is wrong.
I think that this can be illustrated by the practice of Yoga. Many people ignore the spiritual aspects of yoga practice whilst concentrating on the physical benefits of the exercise part of it. Just because we ignore the spiritual aspects, doesn't make them go away however. Their origins and aspects mean something, whether we acknowledge them or not. But if we adopted an exercise regime with no spiritual overtones, but that may basically demonstrate similar poses for muscle stretching, that is not compromise, but the practice of Yoga in full knowledge of its spiritual connections is a compromise.
We understand that God observes all that we do (Heb 4:13)....but most of all, he knows our heart and if we are aware that we are adopting pagan practices, he knows it and he was there observing the originals. He doesn't forget...so why should we? All false religious practice is from the devil....the 'wannabe' god of this world. (2 Cor 4:3, 4; 1John 5:19)
Any worship that is rejected by God goes to him by default. He is the one masquerading as other gods.
In other words, how do you hold somone who is 1. Ignorant of what scripture defines as pagan teachings (if they are christian) and 2. Do not use these practices in pagan worship? against God.
It is up to us to investigate these things. I am sure that you will acknowledge that we are in the Information Age, where there is no excuse for any ignorance about any of these things now.
But Paul gave us an example of those who may not have access to such knowledge because of living in less affluent lands. He said.....
"14 For when people of the nations, who do not have law, do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. 15 They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them, and by their own thoughts they are being accused or even excused." (Rom 2:14, 15)
As the reader of hearts, and an examiner of the conscience, God can fairly judge a person who has never heard about the true God or his Christ through circumstances beyond their control.
If I worship Christ I need more than just the Bible, I need the Word.
Christ is the Word (spokesman) of God and he also often referred to the written word as well. So God's word is the measuring stick for all we believe. If it is not in the Bible and Jesus didn't teach it.....it doesn't belong in our belief system.
Christ never once asked to be worshipped. He said it was the Father "alone" that we are to worship. (Luke 4:8.)
Ignorance or not, pagan and any other practice is not just about the practices involved. I can go to a baptist church, worship like them, associate like them, that doesnt make me kin to baptist way of approaching and worshiping Christ. Is it wrong, no. Is it inappropriate, yes.
Once you identify Christendom as the weeds of Jesus' parable, you will never want to darken their doorway again.
When God commanded his people to "get out of" Babylon the great, he said that with urgency. If one is caught in that false religious empire of the devil's making, one will go down with that sinking ship. (Rev 18:1-8)
I cant comment on the devil. The concept that he had something to do with this is, in my opinion, silly.
The devil (or the adversary as the Jews refer to him) is a central character in Biblical teaching. He is the first rebel and it was his rebellion that set off the chain reaction that led man into sin and death. If there is no devil, there is no explanation for anything. His greatest my trick is convincing people that he doesn't exist. He is a con artist of the greatest magnitude.....the most masterful deceiver in history.
In the Revelation that Jesus presented to John, he tells us about the devil's destiny. If Jesus says the devil is real, then I think we can believe him. Who was it that tempted Jesus after his baptism? (Luke 4:1-13)
I can see why celebrations of pagan origin would bother you. If I were a practicing christian, I wouldnt want anything God defines as pagan in my practice. The fact is that its origin (christianity included) of mixed pagan and somewhat jewish with reformed and to some extent via the apostles romanized practices shouldnt deter one from a relationship with Jesus.
As a former Catholic, do you understand that Roman Catholicism has no similarities with first century Christian practice at all?
First of all, there were no "clergy" among the first Christians....no Pope, no priests in fancy robes, no nuns, no monks cloistered away in monasteries, no cathedrals, no hierarchy, no titled positions of power, no adoration of Mary, no icons or images and no hell of eternal torment for the wicked. There was no trinity and no teaching of an immortal soul and no purgatory or limbo either. There was no infant baptism and no mass, no holy water and no confessional. No Easter, no Christmas, no Lent. Are you beginning to see a picture emerge? All of these things were a departure from what Christ taught....yet are still part of Catholicism to this day. Protestantism got rid of the more extreme doctrines but kept the rest.
Christians do not see the paganism in their beliefs but they are the first to point out the paganism in ours.
Actually "Christians" see the paganism quite clearly and have "separated" themselves from it as they were commanded to do. (2 Cor 6:14-18) Christendom on the other hand, (the weeds of Jesus parable) seem oblivious or they just don't want to see the problem, believing that God doesn't care.
Does it matter the origin? No. Unless you are making the origina practice your "belief 'and' practice" it is like playing with the same football a pagan did years ago. Does the object have magical negative energy that renders it a sin to one who touches it or is it how they use it and their belief that is wrong?
if you pick up the football to play the same game on the same date under a different name, then you are fooling yourself of you think God doesn't care. Can you tell me why Christendom never invented her own occasions for celebrating? Why are they ALL pagan in origin? Christmas, Easter, Birthdays, Halloween, Valentines Day, New Years Eve, Mother's Day and most any other thing you can think of....the dates and customs all originated in paganism. None of these things were originally part of a Christian's spiritual life.
Understand what Im saying?
Yes, I understand that everyone is free to believe as they wish. The problem is, we don't have to answer to ourselves for what we accept as truth. We would excuse ourselves if that were the case, but it is God who is our judge and he has given authority to his son to pass sentence on all who "do not know God (because they have no desire to know him) and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus" and about the establishment of God's kingdom as earth's only legitimate ruling body. (2 Thess 1:6-9)
If we want God to grant us everlasting life, then we have to prove that we are the kind of people he would want as citizens in his earthly kingdom. God has no time for disobedience, whining and complaining or those who just want to do their own thing. He has no use for such ones. We are all invited to become citizens of his kingdom, but unless we pass the entry exam, we will be eliminated from the list, permanently. (Matt 7:21-23)
