Easter. What's with all the plastic eggs, chocolate rabbits & such?

[Thana]

So Jesus' Resurrection is "pagan"? You don't make any sense. If you keep calling aspects of Christianity "pagan", you might as well not be a Christian.

If Easter were really about Jesus's resurrection then there would be no Easter. Jesus's resurrection has no specific date that anyone knows about, Nor was it mandated by God in the bible to be celebrated every year on a certain date.
I can be grateful and knowledgeable and appreciative of Jesus's sacrifice and resurrection without a Church telling me I need to be and when to be and how to be.

I suppose this image I found sums it up -

When people insult and spread lies about your religion, do you enjoy it?

If you want to debate, That's cool. That's what this site is for. But if you want to play the victim then say so now and I will stop.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

If Easter were really about Jesus's resurrection then there would be no Easter. Jesus's resurrection has no specific date that anyone knows about, Nor was it mandated by God in the bible to be celebrated every year on a certain date.
I can be grateful and knowledgeable and appreciative of Jesus's sacrifice and resurrection without a Church telling me I need to be and when to be and how to be.

I suppose this image I found sums it up -

.

Bahahahaha! You've just lost all credibility with that nonsense. Ishtar has nothing to do with Easter. Easter, the word, has nothing to do with the Babylonian goddess, Ishtar. The words come from completely different and separate language families.

In most European languages, the word for Easter comes from the Hebrew Pesach.We can see the connection easily in French Pâques, Italian Pasqua, Spanish Pascua, Dutch Pasen, Danish Påske or Russian Paskha, for example. All of these words refer to the Jewish feast of Passover, which was the setting for the Easter events recounted in the Christian Gospels.


Why is it, then, that the English word for this feast is so different? Where does the word Easter come from?


The most popular theory is reflected in the entry for Easter in the Canadian Oxford Dictionary: the Old English word eastre came "apparently from Eostre, a goddess associated with spring."


The basis for this theory is found in a work written in AD 725 by Saint Bede, an English monk and historian. According to Bede, April was called Eosturmonath ("Easter-month") because in pagan times the month was dedicated to Eostre, an Anglo-Saxon goddess of spring. When Christian beliefs spread throughout England, says Bede, Easter-month lent its name to the new April festival.


Another theory is that Eostre was simply the Anglo-Saxon word for spring festivals. Linguists trace this word to roots thousands of years old meaning "shine" and "dawn." Spring is a season of lengthening days and increased light. It would make sense for early peoples to give their spring festivals a name that celebrated the rising sun.
Origin of the word Easter - Language articles - Language Portal of Canada

The latter theory is most likely correct since Bede is the first historical source that mentions an alleged goddess named Eostre.

Your knowledge of Babylonian mythology is also rubbish because Ishtar had nothing to with rabbit or egg symbolism. Her symbols where the lion and various star symbols.

The egg symbolism comes from the mythological bird, the Phoenix, which was adopted as a Christian symbol in the 1st century AD.
Beyond Ishtar: The Tradition of Eggs at Easter | Anthropology in Practice, Scientific American Blog Network
Easter Is Not Named After Ishtar, And Other Truths I Have To Tell You | The Belle Jar

Stop getting your "information" from anti-Catholic Protestant fundies and Christian hating atheists posting stupid memes online and go learn from actual scholarship. If you do that, you may find yourself not being so anti-Catholic and paranoid about "pagan" influences anymore.

 

[Thana]

Bahahahaha! You've just lost all credibility with that nonsense. Ishtar has nothing to do with Easter. Easter, the word, has nothing to do with the Babylonian goddess, Ishtar. The words come from completely different and separate language families.

In most European languages, the word for Easter comes from the Hebrew Pesach.We can see the connection easily in French Pâques, Italian Pasqua, Spanish Pascua, Dutch Pasen, Danish Påske or Russian Paskha, for example. All of these words refer to the Jewish feast of Passover, which was the setting for the Easter events recounted in the Christian Gospels.


Why is it, then, that the English word for this feast is so different? Where does the word Easter come from?


The most popular theory is reflected in the entry for Easter in the Canadian Oxford Dictionary: the Old English word eastre came "apparently from Eostre, a goddess associated with spring."


The basis for this theory is found in a work written in AD 725 by Saint Bede, an English monk and historian. According to Bede, April was called Eosturmonath ("Easter-month") because in pagan times the month was dedicated to Eostre, an Anglo-Saxon goddess of spring. When Christian beliefs spread throughout England, says Bede, Easter-month lent its name to the new April festival.


Another theory is that Eostre was simply the Anglo-Saxon word for spring festivals. Linguists trace this word to roots thousands of years old meaning "shine" and "dawn." Spring is a season of lengthening days and increased light. It would make sense for early peoples to give their spring festivals a name that celebrated the rising sun.
Origin of the word Easter - Language articles - Language Portal of Canada

The latter theory is most likely correct since Bede is the first historical source that mentions an alleged goddess named Eostre.

Your knowledge of Babylonian mythology is also rubbish because Ishtar had nothing to with rabbit or egg symbolism. Her symbols where the lion and various star symbols.

The egg symbolism comes from the mythological bird, the Phoenix, which was adopted as a Christian symbol in the 1st century AD.
Beyond Ishtar: The Tradition of Eggs at Easter | Anthropology in Practice, Scientific American Blog Network

Stop getting your "information" from anti-Catholic Protestant fundies posting stupid memes online and go learn from actual scholarship. If you do that, you may find yourself not being so anti-Catholic and paranoid about "pagan" influences anymore.

Yeah... That meme points out that Ishtar is pronounced Easter but it's not saying that's why Easter is called Easter.
You're debating that which isn't the point. The point is that is where Easter came from, That pagan Goddess and the celebration of her. Unless you'd like to explain why eggs and rabbits are associated with Easter? It's because she's the Goddess of lust and fertility.

And even if you are right, And they got the egg idea from the Phoenix, That's still pagan.

It was believed that these eggs came from rabbits, which in the pagan world were symbolic of lust, sexual prowess and reproduction. The Canaanites, however, were not the only ones who worshiped rabbits as deities. The Egyptians and the Persians (Babylon) also held rabbits in high esteem because they believed that rabbits first came from the divine Phoenix birds, who once ruled the ancient skies until they were attacked by other gods in a power struggle. When they were struck down, they reincarnated into rabbits, but kept the ability to produce eggs like the ancient birds to show their origins.

I didn't get my information from that meme, I just didn't want to have to type anything so I quickly googled something that generally summed it all up. I'm not getting my information from anti-Catholic sites/people, I'm just lazy.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yeah... That meme points out that Ishtar is pronounced Easter but it's not saying that's why Easter is called Easter.
You're debating that which isn't the point. The point is that is where Easter came from, That pagan Goddess and the celebration of her. Unless you'd like to explain why eggs and rabbits are associated with Easter? It's because she's the Goddess of lust and fertility.

And even if you are right, And they got the egg idea from the Phoenix, That's still pagan.



I didn't get my information from that meme, I just didn't want to have to type anything so I quickly googled something that generally summed it all up. I'm not getting my information from anti-Catholic sites/people, I'm just lazy.

Apparently you're too lazy to even bother to read my posts. Easter has nothing to do with the Babylonian goddess, Ishtar. Understand? They're completely unrelated. The word "easter" is only found in English and German. In most of Europe, it's referred to by words that come from the Hebrew word for Passover, "Pesach". Our Orthodox Christian friends call it Pascha, which simply means "the Passover". The Germanic word, "easter" probably had something to do with the dawn and light. It may even be connected to a Germanic spring festival. We don't know. There most likely was not a Germanic spring goddess named "Eostre", since there's really no evidence for that.

You're making yourself look stupid by continuing to repeat falsehoods after you've been corrected. What's more is that you're actually arguing against Christianity itself because almost everything in Christianity can be found in another religion, including pre-Christian religions, in one form or another. That's just how it is and it's neither good or bad in of itself. Humans are not very original when it comes to religion. We recycle symbols over and over. So if you want to get away from "paganism", you better drop religion, period, and a whole bunch of other facets of life.

 

[JayJayDee]

I cannot begin to tell you how much I loathe the martyr-complex so many Christians seem to have. I could spend hundreds of pages detailing how disgustingly self-righteous it is for someones' first response to criticism or perceived adversity to be "Oh we must be right, people disagree with us!". It's the exact same argument used by all manner of political & religious extremists, that somehow if the world(and facts) are against them it means they must have it right.

I guess it is as loathsome as the self-righteous ones who argue that they must be right because all the "recognized scholars" agree with them....? What if all the "recognized scholars" have got it wrong?
The "facts" presented in their arguments, turn out not to be "facts" at all but widely supported supposition, couched in language that sounds very convincing.

So both camps have valid arguments but no real evidence......choose your camp. It's that simple. Why get cranky?

 

[Thana]

Apparently you're too lazy to even bother to read my posts. Easter has nothing to do with the Babylonian goddess, Ishtar. Understand? They're completely unrelated. The word "easter" is only found in English and German. In most of Europe, it's referred to by words that come from the Hebrew word for Passover, "Pesach". Our Orthodox Christian friends call it Pascha, which simply means "the Passover". The Germanic word, "easter" probably had something to do with the dawn and light. It may even be connected to a Germanic spring festival. We don't know. There most likely was not a Germanic spring goddess named "Eostre", since there's really no evidence for that.

You're making yourself look stupid by continuing to repeat falsehoods after you've been corrected. What's more is that you're actually arguing against Christianity itself because almost everything in Christianity can be found in another religion, including pre-Christian religions, in one form or another. That's just how it is and it's neither good or bad in of itself. Humans are not very original when it comes to religion. We recycle symbols over and over. So if you want to get away from "paganism", you better drop religion, period, and a whole bunch of other facets of life.

You keep talking about the name, Who cares about the bloody name? I'm talking about the celebration itself and it's rituals. They're pagan, The celebration is pagan. It's not Christian.

And I practice non-denominational Christianity, Which means I don't have to go to church or celebrate any 'Christian' holidays or wear a cross or take communion. So yes, I guess I do get to escape all that hand-me-down symbolism and paganism and still remain religious.

 

[Riverwolf]

That is true...pick your scholar....pick your religion....pick your beliefs....or pick none of them.
We are all free to go where our own heart leads us....and that is as it should be. This is why God can judge us fairly, because we choose our own destiny.....whether we believe that or not doesn't really matter.

Which I can say about my Gods. I, too, believe that it doesn't matter whether you believe my Gods are legitimate Gods; they are. Tiu always knows the right doom.

My heart is not the only thing that leads me around. I have multiple guides. My mind is another guide, as is my gut.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You keep talking about the name, Who cares about the bloody name? I'm talking about the celebration itself and it's rituals. They're pagan, The celebration is pagan. It's not Christian.

Now you're shifting the goalposts. I already told you that eggs and rabbits have nothing to do with the religious Christian celebration of Easter.

Oh, and before anyone brings it up: the date of Easter is timed around the Jewish celebration of Passover. The Jewish calendar is lunar and Passover is celebrated on the first full moon after the vernal equinox. So if Christianity is "pagan", Judaism is, too! The apple doesn't fall far from the tree!

And I practice non-denominational Christianity, Which means I don't have to go to church or celebrate any 'Christian' holidays or wear a cross or take communion. So yes, I guess I do get to escape all that hand-me-down symbolism and paganism and still remain religious.

Make sure you throw out your horrible, paganism-tainted Bible, too. It's full of astrology, divination, magic and polytheism.

 

[Thana]

Now you're shifting the goalposts. I already told you that eggs and rabbits have nothing to do with the religious Christian celebration of Easter.

I'm not shifting Goal posts, I said Easter the celebration is Pagan.
So why are eggs and rabbits associated with Easter?

Make sure you throw out your horrible, paganism-tainted Bible, too. It's full of astrology, divination, magic and polytheism.

Umm..
Yes, obviously it talks about that stuff but no it's not what Christianity is about. It talks about other Gods but very specifically says not to worship them. That's not being pagan that's talking about paganism.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm not shifting Goal posts, I said Easter the celebration is Pagan.
So why are eggs and rabbits associated with Easter?

And what does that have to do with the religious Christian Holy Day?

Umm..
Yes, obviously it talks about that stuff but no it's not what Christianity is about. It talks about other Gods but very specifically says not to worship them. That's not being pagan that's talking about paganism.

It's well-known that the Jews only became monotheist over time. They were originally Canaanite polytheists. Then they slowly shifted to henotheism (worship of one god but still believe in many gods; Yahweh became the national deity of Israel) and then they were pummeled by their leadership into monotheism in the mid-1st century BC, and the Biblical writings were redacted to fit the new monotheistic narrative. These shifts are still reflected in the Old Testament, however.
The Bible and Interpretation

 

[Thana]

And what does that have to do with the religious Christian Holy Day?

It's origin.

It's well-known that the Jews only became monotheist over time. They were originally Canaanite polytheists. Then they slowly shifted to henotheism (worship of one god but still believe in many gods; Yahweh became the national deity of Israel) and then they were pummeled by their leadership into monotheism in the mid-1st century BC, and the Biblical writings were redacted to fit the new monotheistic narrative. These shifts are still reflected in the Old Testament, however.
The Bible and Interpretation

That isn't fact.
And I didn't realize any Christian actually believed that, I've only ever heard of Atheists saying it. But whatever floats your boat.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It's origin.

Yes, celebrating the Resurrection of Christ.

That isn't fact.
And I didn't realize any Christian actually believed that, I've only ever heard of Atheists saying it. But whatever floats your boat.

Yes, it's a fact as far as the current evidence goes. Being a Christian doesn't mean you have to reject modern scholarship and archeology. My faith isn't so shaky as to feel threatened by it. The Bible did not fall out of the sky or was written directly by God. It was written by many flawed humans over period of centuries in various cultural settings and impacted by the circumstances of the times. It doesn't matter if it was historically literally true or not. That's not what sacred writings or mythology is about. That doesn't lessen its spiritual power one iota.

 

[psychoslice]

Yes, so why bother with it ?.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yes, so why bother with it ?.

Who are you replying to?

 

[Sees]

Almost everything is pagan influenced and has some pagan symbolism bits here and there. To me the major point should be what has the most focus for the individual. Denouncing Easter is like holding your breath to avoid oxygen. You need to create a new language, government system, diet, etc. - basically a new culture entirely, to avoid paganism.

Most pagans don't even treat bunnies and eggs as something religiously significant, it's simply a fun cultural thing. So many more important issues.

 

[Riverwolf]

Yes, celebrating the Resurrection of Christ.

Yeah.

Even I, a Pagan who celebrates the Pagan festival (or would if I could... ), I fully recognize that the modern holiday of Easter is largely Christian. Sure, a lot of the imagery derives from the pre-Christian festival, but that doesn't mean the modern holiday can't be Christian.

After all, what is Spring but the rebirth of the Sun? What better time to be celebrating the resurrection?

 

[psychoslice]

Who are you replying to?

I tell you darling, I have forgotten, I'm a bit pissed lol.

 

[Riverwolf]

You keep talking about the name, Who cares about the bloody name?

So we can just call Jesus Mithras or Osiris and it'd still be okay?

Ishtar is NOT Easter. The Goddess Easter is a completely different Goddess from a completely different pantheon from a completely different culture! She's named Eostre in Northumbrian Old English, Ostara in Old High German.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yeah.

Even I, a Pagan who celebrates the Pagan festival (or would if I could... ), I fully recognize that the modern holiday of Easter is largely Christian. Sure, a lot of the imagery derives from the pre-Christian festival, but that doesn't mean the modern holiday can't be Christian.

After all, what is Spring but the rebirth of the Sun? What better time to be celebrating the resurrection?

Exactly! It just makes sense to have Easter in the Spring, same with having Christmas around the Winter Solstice. Doesn't mean you're worshiping the seasons or whatever, but it all ties together nicely with its metaphorical meaning. People get so caught up in the trappings that they miss the actual meanings the symbolism is pointing to. I feel sad for people who are so paranoid about the alleged origins of this or that that they strip the symbolic meaning from their religion and their religion becomes dull and uninspiring. I want a vibrant, colorful religion that makes me feel that I've entered the realm of the numinous when I enter its sacred places. I feel that when I go to my parish cathedral.

I tell you darling, I have forgotten, I'm a bit pissed lol.

LOL. That's so funny.

 

[Thana]

Yes, celebrating the Resurrection of Christ.

Why do we even need a Holiday to celebrate the resurrection of Christ? We don't, It was created on the back of a Pagan celebration to attract Pagans or maybe just to demean their celebrations who knows.

But I guess everybody's right, It doesn't really matter. If you want to take it super serious than go for it, But to deny it's Pagan influence outright is dishonest. But you're not doing that anymore, Your defence is 'Everything is Pagan so it doesn't matter' which is.. Wow, like a whole other discussion.

Yes, it's a fact as far as the current evidence goes. Being a Christian doesn't mean you have to reject modern scholarship and archeology. My faith isn't so shaky as to feel threatened by it. The Bible did not fall out of the sky or was written directly by God. It was written by many flawed humans over period of centuries in various cultural settings and impacted by the circumstances of the times. It doesn't matter if it was historically literally true or not. That's not what sacred writings or mythology is about. That doesn't lessen its spiritual power one iota.

It's not fact.
I know the bible didn't fall out of the sky and I know men wrote it. That doesn't mean Yahweh was some version of a polytheist God.

Man I'm tired. Look you're not even denying that Easter is Pagan anymore so I don't know why we're keeping at this.