Eastern religions in the west

[dyanaprajna2011]

I was originally going to post this in the Dharmic DIR, but I thought it would interesting to see the opinions of others as well.

What is the future of eastern religions in the west? Do you think that they'll continue to grow? Or will they face great opposition from primarily Abrahamic religions? Do they have a greater affinity with modern progressive movements, science, and technology, that would allow them to grow in the west, over other religions?

 

[Vinayaka]

I was originally going to post this in the Dharmic DIR, but I thought it would interesting to see the opinions of others as well.

What is the future of eastern religions in the west? Do you think that they'll continue to grow? Or will they face great opposition from primarily Abrahamic religions? Do they have a greater affinity with modern progressive movements, science, and technology, that would allow them to grow in the west, over other religions?

This thread was done regarding Hinduism, as I had similar questions: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/hinduism-dir/138693-future-hinduism-america.html

I think they will continue to grow, but at the same time east/west comparison will become even further polarised than it is now.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

This thread was done regarding Hinduism, as I had similar questions: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/hinduism-dir/138693-future-hinduism-america.html

I think they will continue to grow, but at the same time east/west comparison will become even further polarised than it is now.

I was happy to see, after the last election, to see both a Hindu and a Buddhist elected to higher positions. But could you clarify what you mean by this:

east/west comparison will become even further polarised than it is now

 

[Penumbra]

I was originally going to post this in the Dharmic DIR, but I thought it would interesting to see the opinions of others as well.

What is the future of eastern religions in the west? Do you think that they'll continue to grow? Or will they face great opposition from primarily Abrahamic religions? Do they have a greater affinity with modern progressive movements, science, and technology, that would allow them to grow in the west, over other religions?

It seems to me that some principles of eastern religions have appeal in the west, but not necessarily the whole cultural aspect.

Religion is often intertwined with culture, as a subset of culture. If religion is extracted from culture to attempt to be isolated and transported to a different culture, then it can be tricky to see where that separation ends. Art, language, family structure, level of development, knowledge of other cultures; these things can all be intertwined with religion.

So a lot of western people sitting around a temple statue with eastern physical features and based on eastern art- that setting just doesn't appeal to everyone. It feels to some as though they're part of something foreign, or something distant. Worshiping a foreign culture. The Abrahamic religions are originally foreign to North America or Europe as well, but Christianity has been intertwined with western culture ever since it got picked up in the Roman Empire, so it's sufficiently absorbed to the point of feeling to many as though it's a core aspect of their culture (like how Jesus is often a white guy with long fine brown hair in art for some reason).

It seems to me that "filtered" aspects of eastern religions are popular. For example, American Transcendentalism was based on numerous things from a few cultures, which included the Upanishads. But it doesn't have a foreign feel to it; the earliest essays were written by Americans. New Age beliefs often incorporate elements of western and eastern religion, like reincarnation. Buddhism is often practiced but from what I've observed it's often a sort of minimalist form with fewer cultural ties to east Asian countries in art or setting.

To continue that point, I also think variants of agnosticism and syncretism appear to be on the rise in developed areas, maybe due to increases in exposure to multiple cultures. Rather than looking to a local or foreign culture and saying "this is the specific belief system I accept as true rather than the others", people seem more likely to simply get inspired by a few concepts from different areas.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

It seems to me that some principles of eastern religions have appeal in the west, but not necessarily the whole cultural aspect.

Religion is often intertwined with culture, as a subset of culture. If religion is extracted from culture to attempt to be isolated and transported to a different culture, then it can be tricky to see where that separation ends. Art, language, family structure, level of development, knowledge of other cultures; these things can all be intertwined with religion.

So a lot of western people sitting around a temple statue with eastern physical features and based on eastern art- that setting just doesn't appeal to everyone. It feels to some as though they're part of something foreign, or something distant. Worshiping a foreign culture. The Abrahamic religions are originally foreign to North America or Europe as well, but Christianity has been intertwined with western culture ever since it got picked up in the Roman Empire, so it's sufficiently absorbed to the point of feeling to many as though it's a core aspect of their culture (like how Jesus is often a white guy with long fine brown hair in art for some reason).

Yeah, this does seem to be an issue. However, it is more or less depending on the particular religion. For instance, Buddhism doesn't seem to have as much an issue being tied to any one culture, although the iconography, as you mentioned, is highly eastern in aspect. Philosophical Taoism, as well as maybe Advaita Vedanta Hinduism would also be not as much cultural, as say, bhakti forms of Hinduism or religious Taoism.

It seems to me that "filtered" aspects of eastern religions are popular. For example, American Transcendentalism was based on numerous things from a few cultures, which included the Upanishads. But it doesn't have a foreign feel to it; the earliest essays were written by Americans. New Age beliefs often incorporate elements of western and eastern religion, like reincarnation. Buddhism is often practiced but from what I've observed it's often a sort of minimalist form with fewer cultural ties to east Asian countries in art or setting.

There are movements within Buddhism to appeal to a more western audience. For instance, Soto Zen, and it's practice of Shikantaza, has become the Order of Buddhist Contemplatives, and it's practice of Serene Reflection meditation. The Insight Meditation Movement is an attempt to westernize a Theravadin form of meditation, called vipassana. And the Triratna Buddhist Order is an attempt as a wholly western, primarily American, form of Buddhism.

 

[Jainarayan]

I think they will continue to grow, but at the same time east/west comparison will become even further polarised than it is now.

It seems to me that some principles of eastern religions have appeal in the west, but not necessarily the whole cultural aspect.

I agree with these two sentiments. Penumbra said what I was thinking. I think the religions are adopted, but not the cultures. I think this is especially true with Buddhism. Maybe because Buddhism spread to more areas, and Hinduism stayed pretty much within India. My religion is in the Hindu way, and I'm enamored of and intrigued by all things Indian and eastern, but I am not Indian.

 

[Vinayaka]

I But could you clarify what you mean by this:

It's like politics. When going gets tough, the left and the right dig in their heels. I really hope I'm wrong, but I see the middle (liberal Christians, agnostics)) shifting even more to the east, and the Christian right wing digging in because of it, taking a harder line than they do already.

The other day I gave a link to an interfaith discussion, http://new.livestream.com/accounts/1501643/events/2012389 and it was quite clear the Hindu swami was on his own amongst the other five, although the Anglican confessed he planned to be cremated, and the Jew seemed more tolerant.

 

[Quintessence]

Well, $#@%. I had part of a post written up and my computer ate it. I hate it when that happens.

The long and short of what I wrote before is that any religion that isn't one of the big three monotheisms is going to expand in America. That's what all the demographic trends are indicating, and when we examine the "nones" more closely, many of them hold beliefs and practices associated with Neopaganism, the New Age movement, and/or Eastern religions. Many of these folks are still sorting out their identities, but in general, religious pluralism is on the rise. Is there opposition? Of course there is. But they can't stop it.

 

[Vinayaka]

It seems to me that some principles of eastern religions have appeal in the west, but not necessarily the whole cultural aspect.

I agree, except for the odd nutcase like me, who is often the only guy at temple besides the priests dressed in veshti. I adore Indian culture: food, clothing, music, more. Only thing Indian I didn't adopt is the love for cricket, and that's cause I just can't figure it out.

 

[Vinayaka]

Is there opposition? Of course there is. But they can't stop it.

Gosh I hope this is true. 51% is a very dangerous number if you're in a minority. It hasn't happened here yet, but ....

 

[atanu]

It's like politics. When going gets tough, the left and the right dig in their heels. I really hope I'm wrong, but I see the middle (liberal Christians, agnostics)) shifting even more to the east, and the Christian right wing digging in because of it, taking a harder line than they do already.

It is inevitable. However there will also rise a force counter to polarisation (and what you call digging in their heels) and most likely that will give rise to one or more much more globally acceptable spirituality, similar to American Transcendentalism.

 

[Caladan]

I was originally going to post this in the Dharmic DIR, but I thought it would interesting to see the opinions of others as well.

What is the future of eastern religions in the west? Do you think that they'll continue to grow? Or will they face great opposition from primarily Abrahamic religions?

By Abrahamic religions I assume you mean Christianity, Jews on their part are over represented in the American Buddhist leadership.

Do they have a greater affinity with modern progressive movements, science, and technology, that would allow them to grow in the west, over other religions?

Out of curiosity, how are American Buddhist scientists represented? which contributions have they made? are Buddhist scientists over represented in the US?

All honest questions, since I assume you base your above points on concrete information.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

By Abrahamic religions I assume you mean Christianity, Jews on their part are over represented in the American Buddhist leadership.

Out of curiosity, how are American Buddhist scientists represented? which contributions have they made? are Buddhist scientists over represented in the US?

All honest questions, since I assume you base your above points on concrete information.

I think either you misunderstood my point, or I didn't make it clear. What I'm wondering is simply, what is the future of eastern religions in the US? My statement about science is based partly on the idea that conservative Abrahamics hold that science is counter to faith and religion, while eastern religions tend to be more open to scientific ideas, and even find similarities between science and their philosophies. Look at the Mind and Life institute founded by the Dalai Lama. Even Einstein had good things to say about Buddhism, if the quote is to be taken as his.

As the west moves in a more progressive direction, especially with science, people are going to look for more spiritualities that support, rather than go against, scientific claims.

 

[Caladan]

I think either you misunderstood my point, or I didn't make it clear. What I'm wondering is simply, what is the future of eastern religions in the US? My statement about science is based partly on the idea that conservative Abrahamics hold that science is counter to faith and religion, while eastern religions tend to be more open to scientific ideas, and even find similarities between science and their philosophies. Look at the Mind and Life institute founded by the Dalai Lama. Even Einstein had good things to say about Buddhism, if the quote is to be taken as his.

As the west moves in a more progressive direction, especially with science, people are going to look for more spiritualities that support, rather than go against, scientific claims.

I think you over idealize 'eastern religions', personally I don't see them more receptive to science or progress. Most nations with a Buddhist or Hindu majority are far behind societies with a Judeo-Christian background. You may think that westerners who follow eastern religions are different, and they might be less conservative than native Buddhists and Hindus, but in general judging from this forum, I don't consider them more scientifically or socially advanced than the other members.
So I would assume that eastern religions might have a place in popular culture in the west and in other social aspects, but in order to become a comfortable solution for people who want to accept science and progress they have to compromise on some of their baggage. For example much of the supernatural beliefs of some major streams of Buddhism are not really compatible with scientific minds.
Exotic faiths are certainly on the rise in western culture, from neopaganism to Buddhism. But that is because religions like Buddhism present a more toned down and trimmed version of themselves that will appeal to westerners who wish to escape a patriarchy.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

I think you over idealize 'eastern religions', personally I don't see them more receptive to science or progress. Most nations with a Buddhist or Hindu majority are far behind societies with a Judeo-Christian background. You may think that westerners who follow eastern religions are different, and they might be less conservative than native Buddhists and Hindus, but in general judging from this forum, I don't consider them more scientifically or socially advanced than the other members.
So I would assume that eastern religions might have a place in popular culture in the west and in other social aspects, but in order to become a comfortable solution for people who want to accept science and progress they have to compromise on some of their baggage. For example much of the supernatural beliefs of some major streams of Buddhism are not really compatible with scientific minds.
Exotic faiths are certainly on the rise in western culture, from neopaganism to Buddhism. But that is because religions like Buddhism present a more toned down and trimmed version of themselves that will appeal to westerners who wish to escape a patriarchy.

Yeah, I think the cultural aspects of eastern religions was already brought up in this thread, or it may have been another one, I can't remember. And while this is true for some eastern religions, certainly not all, or at least various schools within a religion. Buddhism, by it's open nature, seems to adapt quite well to various cultures, as the teachings don't seem to be as much tied in to Asian culture as, say, Hinduism. The very nature of Buddhism allows it to adapt in this way. But your point is still a valid one, as there does seem to be problems with it from time to time. Nichiren Buddhism is a good point. While it's gaining in popularity in the west, it's still tied to Japanese culture. I would argue that, particularly with Buddhism, that it's not offering something as toned down, but is something that inherently changes with time and culture.

As far as the supernatural elements in Buddhism goes, this does prove to be a bit problematic in dealing with science. However, as you pointed out, this is only true of some schools. Not all have this supernatural element to them.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

I think you over idealize 'eastern religions', personally I don't see them more receptive to science or progress. Most nations with a Buddhist or Hindu majority are far behind societies with a Judeo-Christian background.

True enough in most cases if you excluded Singapore and Japan. But I think that is not the whole story. Some religious world views are more open to advancement then others. Types of Hinduism, Taoism and Buddhism are very much open to science. In fact Advaita Vedanta was Erwin Schrödinger inspiration for his Ideas on Quantum Physics. Along with Albert Einstein's views on Buddhism shows that these faiths show some flexibility in this area.

Exotic faiths are certainly on the rise in western culture, from neopaganism to Buddhism. But that is because religions like Buddhism present a more toned down and trimmed version of themselves that will appeal to westerners who wish to escape a patriarchy.

This is true in some cases not in all. Take one group ( this group is clearly not my cup of tea ) Iskcon they seem to be doing great in Eastern Europe. They are very traditional in all out ward appearance.

If I may try to read between the lines on your comments. Over time on RF, on the subject of Eastern religions, you have made this type of comment. I feel that you think in many ways Eastern Religions have gotten a free ride ethically and culturally. There strengths have been exaggerated and weakness over looked. If this is truly what you are getting at, I agree. A perfect example is Buddhism they have gotten a free ride when it comes to religious persecution. Look at the civil war in Sri Lanka. Much of it due to the Buddhist population believing the Lord Buddha floated over on a cloud and gave the Island to the Buddhists. Those Hindu Tamils just have no place their. This belief is both unscientific and hurtful to humanity.

 

[Vinayaka]

The other incredibly important factor here is immigration. If it weren't for the Indian immigrant community (probably also true for Buddhism with Japanese, Thai, and Chinese (and more) immigration) I seriously doubt there would be a single traditional Hindu temple in America.

 

[Erebus]

It seems to me that some principles of eastern religions have appeal in the west, but not necessarily the whole cultural aspect.

I think this is a very important point.

I can certainly see Eastern Religions continuing to grow in the west, but I strongly suspect they will grow more and more westernized.
A much smaller scale example of this happening is the LHP. The Western version of Left Hand Path practices have evolved into something almost entirely alien to the various tantric practices they were originally borrowed from. This has all happened in roughly a single century, a very short time indeed for such drastic changes.

 

[Vinayaka]

I can certainly see Eastern Religions continuing to grow in the west, but I strongly suspect they will grow more and more westernized.

Gosh, I hope not. Then they won't be eastern religions any more.

 

[Erebus]

Gosh, I hope not. Then they won't be eastern religions any more.

It is a bit of an odd one "westernized eastern religions" However it most certainly does happen. A culture takes an idea from elsewhere and absorbs it, in the process the idea is altered to make it more palatable to the absorbing culture.
Whether the end result can be called an Eastern religion anymore is up for debate I guess.