Economics question: Would suspending ALL loans and rent help keep the wheels on?

[Revoltingest]

There is one more aspect to it @Dan From Smithville and @Revoltingest - in medicine and law - the person supervising the intern can write them letters of recommendation and if they are really pleased with the professional performance and aptitude of the intern, actually call in a favor and get them accepted to a high level job or a chance at further study - I shall provide two or three examples

I interned with a gentleman who was well known in the field (had written a few textbooks and was regarded as an authority on the subject) - he made a call and got me into a fellowship program that I may or may not have gotten in without his backing

I know of at least two individuals who "clerked" with judges and senators in DC and both are in high level positions in the Federal government today - one in CMS and the other in DoJ

FWIW

I'd give you a good recommendation too.
Although...
You do lose a couple points for responding
seriously & usefully to our silly banter.

 

[Revoltingest]

Well we're gonna have businesses at all points on the can-to-cannot operate continuum. The question is - if consumers could all still consume, wouldn't that minimize the number of businesses that would have to close? We can call this idea "trickle up economics"

Your "trickle up" won't help businesses forced to
close, in which case they have no customers.

FYI, my business appears to be ineligible for for
any assistance. Fortunately, I can borrow on a
line of credit in lieu of gubmint money.

 

[Shad]

Well we're gonna have businesses at all points on the can-to-cannot operate continuum. The question is - if consumers could all still consume, wouldn't that minimize the number of businesses that would have to close?

No as government in many places has shutdown the legal power for a business to operate. In Vancouver the government is fining bars and restaurants that operate in location.

We can call this idea "trickle up economics"

This will kick in when mandated closures are lifted as customers are free pick business they want to become patrons of compared to those they have to due government action. Right now with closures we are bypassing business due to government edicts. Take online distribution versus local. A local business may not be operational due to government mandates. Customers can not shop locally thus must look at areas without closures or online businesses (Amazon). Government mandates cost a business customers by taking those businesses out of a market.

 

[icehorse]

Your "trickle up" won't help businesses forced to
close, in which case they have no customers.

FYI, my business appears to be ineligible for for
any assistance. Fortunately, I can borrow on a
line of credit in lieu of gubmint money.

I'm not claiming that this approach will work 100% for all businesses. Of course it won't. What I'm trying to explore is whether this approach would help *in general*. So this is sort of a statistics question, not a question of dealing with rare outliers. At least for now. so if we have a new approach that helps the most common groups, then of course we can tweak the solution to help outliers as well.

 

[Jane Boswell]

I've been wondering how a logical. thoughtful government would handle the upcoming economic problems that are sure to come in the next few weeks and months.

What I was wondering is if a simple suspension of all loans and rent payments might minimize the pain all around?

Marx (and many of your compatriots now) would have you realize that it's all just several steps closer to a millenium-redefined Socialism. By sheer necessity.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm not claiming that this approach will work 100% for all businesses. Of course it won't. What I'm trying to explore is whether this approach would help *in general*. So this is sort of a statistics question, not a question of dealing with rare outliers. At least for now. so if we have a new approach that helps the most common groups, then of course we can tweak the solution to help outliers as well.

I don't see the usefulness of an approach which intentionally
harms the few...the outliers...the statistically insignificant...
for the benefit of the common...the majority...the noticed.

 

[Heyo]

I don't see the usefulness of an approach which intentionally
harms the few...the outliers...the statistically insignificant...
for the benefit of the common...the majority...the noticed.

I don't see the usefulness of an approach which intentionally helps the few ... the corporations ... the rich
to the detriment of the common ... the majority ... the unnoticed.

That's what it's all about. My fear is that the bulk of the stimulus money is going strait into the pockets of the rich without any detour through the economy. It's too late now since 3.3 million already got laid off but it would have been better if the government would have taken over (a percentage of) the wages for businesses keeping their workers and maybe additionally also get the bills for maintenance (against receipts). That would have helped the workers and kept the businesses afloat. Giving money straight away without any guaranties is simply kleptocracy.

 

[icehorse]

Marx (and many of your compatriots now) would have you realize that it's all just several steps closer to a millenium-redefined Socialism. By sheer necessity.

That feels like a common false-dilemma argument. I think if our economy was closely modeled to the U.S. economy in the 1950's we'd be in FAR better shape than we are now. Hardly a communist conspiracy

 

[icehorse]

I don't see the usefulness of an approach which intentionally
harms the few...the outliers...the statistically insignificant...
for the benefit of the common...the majority...the noticed.

AS I JUST FRIGGIN SAID:

1st pass is to help the majority
2nd pass is to help the outliers

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't see the usefulness of an approach which intentionally helps the few ... the corporations ... the rich
to the detriment of the common ... the majority ... the unnoticed.

Neither do I.
But is that relevant?
Is anyone here advocating helping only corporations & the wealthy?

That's what it's all about. My fear is that the bulk of the stimulus money is going strait into the pockets of the rich without any detour through the economy. It's too late now since 3.3 million already got laid off but it would have been better if the government would have taken over (a percentage of) the wages for businesses keeping their workers and maybe additionally also get the bills for maintenance (against receipts). That would have helped the workers and kept the businesses afloat. Giving money straight away without any guaranties is simply kleptocracy.

The assistance measures I'm exploring on line don't appear to do what you fear.
I've determined that my business doesn't even qualify because of the restrictions.
Have you looked into the programs?

 

[Revoltingest]

AS I JUST FRIGGIN SAID:

1st pass is to help the majority
2nd pass is to help the outliers

Your 1st pass harms the outliers.
There's no need to harm anyone.

 

[icehorse]

Your 1st pass harms the outliers.
There's no need to harm anyone.

please tell us the "doesn't harm anyone plan"

 

[Revoltingest]

please tell us the "doesn't harm anyone plan"

Aid to all in need.
With 2 trillion dollars devoted to it, that's doable.

 

[Heyo]

Neither do I.
But is that relevant?
Is anyone here advocating helping only corporations & the wealthy?

I'm not sure for what @Shad is advocating but he sure seems to be against anything that focuses on helping the workers and the poor.

The assistance measures I'm exploring on line don't appear to do what you fear.
I've determined that my business doesn't even qualify because of the restrictions.
Have you looked into the programs?

No, I haven't. That's why i said I fear it would be so (based on previous experiences and reporting on the bills) not that I know.
And I think we can assume it to be a fact that 3.3 million workers got laid off since that was reported in left and right wing media. So it is a fact that the stimulus packet already failed in that way.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm not sure for what @Shad is advocating but he sure seems to be against anything that focuses on helping the workers and the poor.

I recommend asking him to verify this inference.

No, I haven't. That's why i said I fear it would be so (based on previous experiences and reporting on the bills) not that I know.
And I think we can assume it to be a fact that 3.3 million workers got laid off since that was reported in left and right wing media. So it is a fact that the stimulus packet already failed in that way.

As I read the programs, it's not a "stimulus" program.
It's assistance to those in need because of the pandemic.
There is talk of giving every person some money, but
no one I know has gotten anything yet. Government
has only begun the application process for some of
the programs available. Not yet for all.

I'm finding that they want a lot of accounting data
going back to Jan 21, 2019. Easy enuf to do, but
it shows that not all will qualify (as I won't).

 

[icehorse]

Aid to all in need.
With 2 trillion dollars devoted to it, that's doable.

Some rough math: $1200 x 100,000,000 families, so $120 billion of aid to families.

Where is the other 95% of the aid money going?

 

[Revoltingest]

Some rough math: $1200 x 100,000,000 families, so $120 billion of aid to families.

Where is the other 95% of the aid money going?

Distribution isn't clear at this point.
They're only beginning to accept applications.
Note also that for businesses, they're primarily loans to cover
income loss so as to cover expenses & stay in business.
Have you seen the application forms?
Do you recognize the consequences if employers go out of business?

 

[icehorse]

Distribution isn't clear at this point.
They're only beginning to accept applications.
Note also that for businesses, they're primarily loans to cover
income loss so as to cover expenses & stay in business.
Have you seen the application forms?
Do you recognize the consequences if employers go out of business?

Doh!

Do you recognize that businesses need customers?

 

[Revoltingest]

Doh!

Do you recognize that businesses need customers?

Do you recognize that customers need business which still operate?

It shouldn't be help one or help the other.
The pandemic is harming customers, workers, & businesses.
All should survive....that's optimum.

 

[Heyo]

Do you recognize the consequences if employers go out of business?

Workers have to file for unemployment - but that has already happened now.