Economics question: Would suspending ALL loans and rent help keep the wheels on?

[Revoltingest]

An update about those loans.
I heard on NPR that if 75% of the loans is spent on payroll,
then it's eligible for being waived. So this "corporate give-away"
would accrue mostly to employees. People should like this.

 

[icehorse]

An update about those loans.
I heard on NPR that if 75% of the loans is spent on payroll,
then it's eligible for being waived. So this "corporate give-away"
would accrue mostly to employees. People should like this.

Indeed, I'm starting to hear about chunks of the 2 trillion that seem to be reasonable attempts at a "trickle up" orientation! Fingers crossed!

 

[Revoltingest]

Indeed, I'm starting to hear about chunks of the 2 trillion that seem to be reasonable attempts at a "trickle up" orientation! Fingers crossed!

I disagree that it's "trickle up", which would be stimulus.
This is about rescuing those in trouble.
Such inappropriately applied jargon creates misunderstanding.

 

[icehorse]

I disagree that it's "trickle up", which would be stimulus.
This is about rescuing those in trouble.
Such inappropriately applied jargon creates misunderstanding.

Au contraire!

For decades now our "leaders" have been tacitly and/or explicitly promoting trickle down economics. It's WAY past time to call them on this nonsense, so I think saying "trickle up" adds an important distinction that too few people are aware of.

People need to be asking "where's that 2 trillion going?"

 

[Revoltingest]

Au contraire!

For decades now our "leaders" have been tacitly and/or explicitly promoting trickle down economics. It's WAY past time to call them on this nonsense, so I think saying "trickle up" adds an important distinction that too few people are aware of.

People need to be asking "where's that 2 trillion going?"

Regardless of what people have been promoting,this
pandemic & the aid packages for it differ fundamentally
from stimulus programs, which were to have a general
effect more so than to help individuals in very specific trouble.
We're not going to agree on this.

 

[Notanumber]

These two make some very good points.

‘In this lockdown, dissent is a moral duty’

Is the cure worse than the disease?

It looks like we are going to have a very stark future.

 

[icehorse]

Regardless of what people have been promoting,this
pandemic & the aid packages for it differ fundamentally
from stimulus programs, which were to have a general
effect more so than to help individuals in very specific trouble.
We're not going to agree on this.

We agree in theory. But in practice there is zero reason for us to trust that this won't be yet another massive donation to the 1%.

 

[Revoltingest]

We agree in theory. But in practice there is zero reason for us to trust that this won't be yet another massive donation to the 1%.

A determined cynic you are.

 

[icehorse]

A determined cynic you are.

Just looking at the last 50 years of data.

 

[Revoltingest]

Just looking at the last 50 years of data.

And all the pandemics which stopped the economy since 1970?

 

[icehorse]

And all the pandemics which stopped the economy since 1970?

I'm focused on the bailouts - that's the point of the OP. So the question of the OP is not about the pandemic. The question is about how to best keep the economy as healthy as possible in the context of dealing with the pandemic.

The what the last 50 years has demonstrated is that "conservatives" have been steadily chipping away at the financial well being of the middle class in order to further enrich the 1%. AND... government bailouts have been a recurring vehicle that "conservatives" have used to implement this widening gap of income and wealth inequality.

 

[Heyo]

Just looking at the last 50 years of data.

And the new of today. How Mnuchin tries to undermine an originally good plan:

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm focused on the bailouts - that's the point of the OP. So the question of the OP is not about the pandemic. The question is about how to best keep the economy as healthy as possible in the context of dealing with the pandemic.

The what the last 50 years has demonstrated is that "conservatives" have been steadily chipping away at the financial well being of the middle class in order to further enrich the 1%. AND... government bailouts have been a recurring vehicle that "conservatives" have used to implement this widening gap of income and wealth inequality.

The bail-outs are part of a nefarious plot to wipe out the middle class?
I can see then why you oppose helping companies avoid failure.

 

[icehorse]

The bail-outs are part of a nefarious plot to wipe out the middle class?
I can see then why you oppose helping companies avoid failure.

It seems you think I'm a conspiracy theorist? Not at all!

But the 1% all have fantastic lawyers and lobbyists. And (no need for cabals or conspiracies), these lawyers and lobbyists have been bending tax laws and subsidies and bailouts to mostly benefit the rich. Is this news to you?

 

[Revoltingest]

It seems you think I'm a conspiracy theorist? Not at all!

I was fun'n ya.

But the 1% all have fantastic lawyers and lobbyists. And (no need for cabals or conspiracies), these lawyers and lobbyists have been bending tax laws and subsidies and bailouts to mostly benefit the rich. Is this news to you?

We'll see what happens.

 

[icehorse]

We'll see what happens.

Why should we hope it will be different this time?

 

[Revoltingest]

Why should we hope it will be different this time?

Why hope that it'll be the same for you?

 

[icehorse]

Why hope that it'll be the same for you?

I'm not "hoping", I'm concerned. You don't seem to be. I'm not sure why a libertarian-esque gentlemen such as yourself would be putting such evidence-free faith in big government.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm not "hoping", I'm concerned. You don't seem to be. I'm not sure why a libertarian-esque gentlemen such as yourself would be putting such evidence-free faith in big government.

I'm not worried because I'm familiar with how it's to be distributed.
It looks reasonable....different from past bail-outs & stimulus.
Besides, worrying gets one nowhere.

Do you oppose the assistance measures as they exist?

 

[icehorse]

I'm not worried because I'm familiar with how it's to be distributed.
It looks reasonable....different from past bail-outs & stimulus.
Besides, worrying gets one nowhere.

Do you oppose the assistance measures as they exist?

This article from NPR seems fairly objective:

What's Inside The Senate's $2 Trillion Coronavirus Aid Package

It sounds good on paper, but the $500 billion to big business worries me. We've seen over and over again that oversight of big business often fails to curb bad actors from being bad actors. I also feel that a big portion of the relief given to families and small businesses will ultimately be channeled right back to the banks.