Egyptian exodus proof or slavery?

[Ehav4Ever]

This language fetish is pretentious drivel at best.

Of course it is. Don't worry. I will take care of it so you won't have to.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

I am happy to know the content and the source of your correct interpretation. I have no way to respond if you merely say that Strong's is wrong without specifying what is wrong according to what interpretation.

I showed that already. When you stated that the Esreth HaDibroth was not national, I showed where in the Hebrew text it claims that it is. Your reference to strong's did not address that.

In terms of Strong's being a Christian source of information here you go:

 

[Ehav4Ever]

I am happy to correct myself on such statements. That said, "experts" have their pitfalls. There are different methods of attaining knowledge. I am not responding to your other similar comments to avoid repetition. Hope OK.

You don't have to correct yourself. You can simply state that what you are talking about is not based on the Hebrew text and not on ancient Jewish sources.

If your source of information is Christian sources such as English bibles, Strong's Concordance, etc. then that is Christianity and not connected to Torath Mosheh Jews/Orthodox Jews/and a large portion of the historical Israeli/Jewish people.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

@Ehav4Ever

This is the website you want Ivrith Scriptures from
Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala can you check out that website?

Oh because Torath Mosheh Jews don't have the word Hebrew, they have the word Ivrith, so when seeing word Ivrith that's what that means. @Ehav4Ever said he'll include number verses if we use this website.

Exodus Chapter 1 שְׁמוֹת Shemoth

verse 2,3,4

verse 2) Reuben, Simeon, Levi, and Judah; (English)

ב רְאוּבֵן שִׁמְעוֹן, לֵוִי וִיהוּדָה. (Ivrith)​

verse 3) Issachar, Zebulun, and Benjamin;

ג יִשָּׂשכָר זְבוּלֻן, וּבִנְיָמִן. (Ivrith)​

Verse 4) Dan and Naphtali, Gad and Asher.

ד דָּן וְנַפְתָּלִי, גָּד וְאָשֵׁר. (Ivrith)
​

What do the Judah and Benjamin tribes think of the other tribes back then and now that no one can find these other tribes any more, or do they know where they are?

​

When all Israelis were keeping Torah the tribes of Yehudah and Benyamin thought of the other tribes the same as themselves. When the main segments of the other tribes were sent into exile, this of course concerned the remaining people of Yehudah and Benyamin.

One thing I do need to point out, members of the other tribes were living in Yehudah (Judah) during and after the exile. There are a Jewish communities in Yemen, Asia, etc. that have ancestral claims of being from some of the other tribes from the north. In fact, there is an entire segment of Israeli society known as the Benei Menashe who are beleived to be from the tribe of Menashe.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Please give the verse number. And, please explain the parameters used by you to determine what is core and what is not?

See River Sea's post HERE.

River Sea was able to find it by Google.

In terms of how Torath Mosheh Jews determine what the core is of the Torah. Well, it was given to our ancestors and we to this day know the langauge of our ancestors, study it, and the texts written by our ancestors that is one way. Also, when one goes back for thousands of years throughout Israeli/Jewish history and texts written by Israelis/Jews in Hebrew say that the same point about the Torah over and over again, that is the standard.

That is why every version of a summary the Torah revolves around the mitzvoth that Hashem gave to us Torath Mosheh Israelis/Jews.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Vocabulary: 'Ivrith' Torath Mosheh Jew word for Hebrew

How did Ivrith take care their cattle while traveling to Yisrael?

Just FYI, Ivirth is the name of the langauge. Ivrim is how you reference actual people. In terms of how cattle were cared for while traveling to Yisrael. According to a source known as Da'ath Miqra they always settled in areas where there was the possibility of grazing and make deals with local inhabitants. The topography of the area they traveled through has some areas, even to this day, that allow for grazing.

Was the land enough for water and food for cattle?

In areas where they made settlements yes. In areas they did not settle in, less so.

What did the Ivriths do to help keep their cattle healthy while traveling?

Generally speaking, only making travel between areas where the environment could support the animal population. Using time proven methods of animal care for the region and not over using the resources that were available to sustain the livestock. There are certain practices that are covered in Jewish legal texts about how to treat animals.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

I showed that already. When you stated that the Esreth HaDibroth was not national, I showed where in the Hebrew text it claims that it is. Your reference to strong's did not address that.

In terms of Strong's being a Christian source of information here you go:

View attachment 67371
View attachment 67372

View attachment 67373

When you stated that the Esreth HaDibroth was not national, I showed where in the Hebrew text it claims that it is.

I searched for Esreth HaDibroth and could only find some books. Will u please send a link or text explaining your point. I seem to have missed it. I assure you I will respond

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

I showed that already. When you stated that the Esreth HaDibroth was not national, I showed where in the Hebrew text it claims that it is. Your reference to strong's did not address that.

In terms of Strong's being a Christian source of information here you go:

View attachment 67371
View attachment 67372

View attachment 67373

That Stongs was a Christian does not mean he was wrong. I often consult the Bible Hub as well. Please provide link to a concordance from Jewish point of view. Will respond for sure.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

In terms of how Torath Mosheh Jews determine what the core is of the Torah.

You seem to be going by the Tradition rather than the Bible. I am OK with the Bible being Word of God; but the tradition is not necessarily Word of God.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

I searched for Esreth HaDibroth and could only find some books. Will u please send a link or text explaining your point. I seem to have missed it. I assure you I will respond

Esreth HaDibroth is a translieration of (עשרת הדיברות). What westerners and Christians call in English "The 10 Commands." The below is how it looks in a Hebrew Torah Scroll. I have added numbers to mark each one. Note: Hebrew is read from right to left.

Here is a version of it from the Dead Sea scrolls.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

That Stongs was a Christian does not mean he was wrong. I often consult the Bible Hub as well.

Actually, it does for Torath Mosheh Jews. If you look at the information I provided the purpose of Strong's was for the purpose fo the KJV bible. He also did not have a good grasp on Jewish sources and that comes out at times.

This is why the Strong's is never used in Torah based Jewish circles. Also, if there are Christians who often misuse his work. Just look at how Sacred Name Christians use it or better yet misuse it.

TPlease provide link to a concordance from Jewish point of view. Will respond for sure.

In English, the following are reliable sources from a Torath Mosheh Jewish perspective. The best though are in Hebrew.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

You seem to be going by the Tradition rather than the Bible. I am OK with the Bible being Word of God; but the tradition is not necessarily Word of God.

I don't read a bible. I read the Tanakh in the language it was originally written in. I also don't subscribe to the concept of a god you are describing. The word simply doesn't show up in any ancient Middle Eastern text and not in the way you describe it.

Besides, anyone will tell you that ALL TRANSLATIONS are done based on traditions. English translations made by Christians are translated based on Christian traditions. So, if you are using Strong's Concordance or BibleHub you are ascribing yourself to the Christian "tradition" of their bible. Thus, you are essentially accepting and professing the Christian concept/tradition of what is a "word of a god."

You, as someone who grew up in a Hindu and who is bilinqual should already know this because if you translated the Yajur Veda it would come out one way because you grew in the culture/tradition that produced it. Yet, if I, being a foreigner to said culture/tradition and with very little knowledge of the language it is written in, would using dictionaries and lexicons would translate it completely different based on what I may think I understand about the culture/tradition that produced it.

This may help.

 

[River Sea]

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala
Here's Torah Hebrew English website that @Ehav4Ever wanted us to use when communicating

Click on website that says Hebrew - English Bible below this sentence.

Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre

When at website scroll down to Torah and click on Exodus
It'll show both Hebrew (Ivrith) and English

I snip photo to show

 

[Ehav4Ever]

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala
Here's Torah Hebrew English website that @Ehav4Ever wanted us to use when communicating

Click on website that says Hebrew - English Bible below this sentence.

Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre

When at website scroll down to Torah and click on Exodus
It'll show both Hebrew (Ivrith) and English

I snip photo to show

View attachment 67395

Actually, I don't accept the JPS English translation.

Essentially, you can use the Hebrew on the Mechon - Mamre site, without the English. I understand that. If you want to quote something from the site you quote only the Hebrew part to me.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Bharat Jhunjhunwala
Here's Torah Hebrew English website that Ehav4Ever wanted us to use when communicating

Greetings. Actually, to correct you a bit. I agreed that you could use the "Hebrew" texts from the Mechon Mamre site. I agree with the Hebrew parts of that site. The English "bible" part of that site is simply a copy of the JPS bible English translation.

The JPS has several problems, some of which make it unacceptable to Bharat Jhunjhunwala and some of which make the JPS translation unaccetable to me.

Earlier, Bharat stated that he accepts the translation of the bible he uses as the word of a god but he doesn't accept Jewish "tradition" as the word of a god. According to the JPS translators, in their preface, they stated they Jewish tradition when attempting to translate. See below.

So, this would be unacceptable to Bharat, based on his earlier statements.

The JPS is unacceptable to me because if you look in the introduction to a JPS bible it states that they, on the one hand, consider the translations of Christians foreign, while on the other hand they used Christian translations to decide how to render the English.

While on the other had it states:

You can find the information I posted here.

Preface to JPS 1917 Hebrew Bible in English / Mechon-Mamre

 

[Ehav4Ever]

That Stongs was a Christian does not mean he was wrong.

Here is what a Christian site has to say about strong's credentials.

The Problem With Using Strong’s Concordance Dictionary.

This seems to be supported by the Wiki on James Strong.

Here are a few other criticism of Strong's work:

Strong’s Concordance – a Good Tool Gone Bad

The Pitfall in Using Strong's Numbers - TorahResource

Throw Away Your Strong's Concordance | The Excelsior Springs Church

 

[Brian2]

Here is what a Christian site has to say about strong's credentials.

The Problem With Using Strong’s Concordance Dictionary.
View attachment 67416

This seems to be supported by the Wiki on James Strong.

View attachment 67417

Here are a few other criticism of Strong's work:

Strong’s Concordance – a Good Tool Gone Bad

The Pitfall in Using Strong's Numbers - TorahResource

Throw Away Your Strong's Concordance | The Excelsior Springs Church

For me I have found Strong's Concordance to be handy when trying to identify Hebrew and Greek words and then to go to another more thorough word book to be a better picture of the meaning of a word than is offered in Strong's.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

For me I have found Strong's Concordance to be handy when trying to identify Hebrew and Greek words and then to go to another more thorough word book to be a better picture of the meaning of a word than is offered in Strong's.

For a Christian that is perfectly fine. But that is different than making a conclusion about an ancient language and culture based on a word here and there. Again, it is not an accurate source of material or a reliable method for a Jew.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Here is what a Christian site has to say about strong's credentials.

The Problem With Using Strong’s Concordance Dictionary.
View attachment 67416

This seems to be supported by the Wiki on James Strong.

View attachment 67417

Here are a few other criticism of Strong's work:

Strong’s Concordance – a Good Tool Gone Bad

The Pitfall in Using Strong's Numbers - TorahResource

Throw Away Your Strong's Concordance | The Excelsior Springs Church

All this still does not mean Strongs was wrong. Please give a specific concordance of the Torah made by him and show how and why he is wrong. Happy to amend my views.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Again, it is not an accurate source of material or a reliable method for a Jew.

Agree. But this does not go anywhere. You have to be able to show where my understanding is incorrect, if at all.