Egyptian family: 15 yrs for apostasy

[Kemble]

We also have to take the Egyptian claim that she forged the documents at face value. Even if she did, if the system wasn't allowing her conversion there isn't any other option. Good question about the relation between inheritance and religion.

 

[YmirGF]

We also have to take the Egyptian claim that she forged the documents at face value. Even if she did, if the system wasn't allowing her conversion there isn't any other option. Good question about the relation between inheritance and religion.

Well inheritance "rights" are different under Islam for women, so if she was given a larger sum or an EQUAL sum as her brothers (assuming she had one or more) that could be problematic as a Muslim, whereas being labelled as Christian, the Sharia guidelines would not apply. I would, of course, defer to our resident Muslims or Ex-Muslims for clarification on this if I have it wrong, but that is my understanding.

 

[Pegg]

It's not exactly an abuse of Sharia. In Islam the punishment for apostasy is death: What if a Muslim Quit Islam?

Or as reiterated by 'Alaa Said:

MEMRI: Egyptian Cleric 'Alaa Said Slams School Textbook for Teaching Religious Tolerance

So 15 years in prison in an Islamic country for apostasy is a relief.

what exactly is 'apostasy' under islam?

 

[McBell]

I ran the provided link through Google Translate:



Okay. I have no idea whatsoever about the reputability of the source moegypt gave is -- I'll just take it at face value for the benefit of the doubt. If Google Translate is rendering this at all correctly, then it appears moegypt's claim that some or all of this sentencing was with respect to forging documents illegally is corroborated by the text in blue. So, thank you for bringing that bit to light, moegypt: I should have known better than to accept Fox "News's" journalism at face value.

However, the text in red is still interesting. Perhaps it was mistranslated? At the top, it seems to insinuate that the conversion from Islam to Christianity in fact played some role in the severity of their punishment -- the exact (though, of course, poorly translated) phrase suggests that the sentence is for both falsifying documents and "for returning to Christianity after Islam." Could someone translate this better to clarify, maybe?

If they're not being punished for the conversion, why does the article mention the conversion no less than three times? Why is it important that they changed the religion listed on their ID at all -- why do their ID's list a religious affiliation in the first place? Isn't that just begging for abuse somewhere down the line?

Now, I do get (somehow, through the garbled translation) a bit of context saying that the reason they changed their religion to Christianity on the ID's was "to get her inheritance from her family of origin." I'm sorry, what? That doesn't make any sense to me at all. What does a person's stated religion have to do with what they inherit from their families?

What I find the most interesting is that according to google translate not only does his own source list their conversion to Christianity as a reason, it is listed FIRST...

 

[FearGod]

I ran the provided link through Google Translate:



Okay. I have no idea whatsoever about the reputability of the source moegypt gave is -- I'll just take it at face value for the benefit of the doubt. If Google Translate is rendering this at all correctly, then it appears moegypt's claim that some or all of this sentencing was with respect to forging documents illegally is corroborated by the text in blue. So, thank you for bringing that bit to light, moegypt: I should have known better than to accept Fox "News's" journalism at face value.

However, the text in red is still interesting. Perhaps it was mistranslated? At the top, it seems to insinuate that the conversion from Islam to Christianity in fact played some role in the severity of their punishment -- the exact (though, of course, poorly translated) phrase suggests that the sentence is for both falsifying documents and "for returning to Christianity after Islam." Could someone translate this better to clarify, maybe?

If they're not being punished for the conversion, why does the article mention the conversion no less than three times? Why is it important that they changed the religion listed on their ID at all -- why do their ID's list a religious affiliation in the first place? Isn't that just begging for abuse somewhere down the line?

Now, I do get (somehow, through the garbled translation) a bit of context saying that the reason they changed their religion to Christianity on the ID's was "to get her inheritance from her family of origin." I'm sorry, what? That doesn't make any sense to me at all. What does a person's stated religion have to do with what they inherit from their families?

The case is very clear and which is that punisment was due to bribery and the forger documents.

Even the officials were punished for the same reason which is accepting the bribe to offer the forger documents.

The mother purpose is to have her inheritance from her christian family,so it isn't a question of converting,but it is all about illegal documents,bribing and money.

Such thing can happen in any country which doesn't accept bribing the government officials to issue a forger documents.

 

[McBell]

The case is very clear and which is that punisment was due to bribery and the forger documents.

Even the officials were punished for the same reason which is accepting the bribe to offer the forger documents.

The mother purpose is to have her inheritance from her christian family,so it isn't a question of converting,but it is all about illegal documents,bribing and money.

Such thing can happen in any country which doesn't accept bribing the government officials to issue a forger documents.

except that your own source says that converting to Christianity was one of the reasons...

 

[FearGod]

except that your own source says that converting to Christianity was one of the reasons...

OK,understand it the way you like,thats up to you of course.

 

[McBell]

OK,understand it the way you like,thats up to you of course.

you denial is noted.

 

[Kemble]

what exactly is 'apostasy' under islam?

Leaving the religion.

 

[Father Heathen]

If Arab Spring isn't "waking up," then what is?

I knew from the beginning that all of the "arab spring" nonsense would only be replacing old dictatorships with new dictatorships. Nothing else is possible in such deeply religious societies.

 

[F0uad]

Keep using the word Dictatorship when the guy is not even a year in office. So funny how you guys react when one thing that doesn't seem right in your eyes (not even knowing the full story) when there are much worse things happening in your own country on a daily basis.

Lets point fingers at Muslims or "Islamic" countries at-least this way we will feel better about ourselves.

 

[McBell]

Keep using the word Dictatorship when the guy is not even a year in office. So funny how you guys react when one thing that doesn't seem right in your eyes (not even knowing the full story) when there are much worse things happening in your own country on a daily basis.

Lets point fingers at Muslims or "Islamic" countries at-least this way we will feel better about ourselves.

Interesting.

One wonders why the blatant diversion tactic?

 

[Father Heathen]

Keep using the word Dictatorship when the guy is not even a year in office.

It wouldn't matter if it were only a day; committing injustices while abusing power is tyranny.

when there are much worse things happening in your own country on a daily basis.

Such as?

 

[beenie]

Keep using the word Dictatorship when the guy is not even a year in office. So funny how you guys react when one thing that doesn't seem right in your eyes (not even knowing the full story) when there are much worse things happening in your own country on a daily basis.

Lets point fingers at Muslims or "Islamic" countries at-least this way we will feel better about ourselves.

F0uad, can you ever debate the real issues or do you always have to point out how "bad" the West is to make Islamic societies look "not so bad" somehow?

I actually agree that a lot of blame and slander is going on with the new Egyptian president, as he has inherited huge problems and instability that has been festering for decades... and hasn't had adequate time to rectify much. However, your point is lost when you turn defensive and start pointing fingers. Reminds me of my 4-year-old pointing her finger at my 6-year-old exclaiming, "she did it fiiiiiiiirssssttttt"!

Remember, there are still four fingers pointing back at you.

 

[oldbadger]

1. Keep using the word Dictatorship when the guy is not even a year in office. 2. So funny how you guys react when one thing that doesn't seem right in your eyes (not even knowing the full story) when there are much worse things happening in your own country on a daily basis.

2. Lets point fingers at Muslims or "Islamic" countries at-least this way we will feel better about ourselves.

I numbered your sentences.

1. Would the correct word be infant-theocracy? What do you think?
2. I considered about any 'much-worse things' that might be happening in my country, and, there are some very bad things happening here. Because of a recent debate I thought of child beatings and acid attacks on girls, and other crimes which I believe do have some level of religious connection. I wouldn't have mentioned this but you brought it up.
3. I don't feel better about me. Not at all.


Oh..... and it's not 'funny'. It's utterly dread-full.

 

[FearGod]

I numbered your sentences.

1. Would the correct word be infant-theocracy? What do you think?
2. I considered about any 'much-worse things' that might be happening in my country, and, there are some very bad things happening here. Because of a recent debate I thought of child beatings and acid attacks on girls, and other crimes which I believe do have some level of religious connection. I wouldn't have mentioned this but you brought it up.
3. I don't feel better about me. Not at all.


Oh..... and it's not 'funny'. It's utterly dread-full.

No i don't think he means such small things as child beating but other horrifying issues,one example is this

As reported in UK

Statistics on child sexual abuse


June 2012

• Nearly a quarter of young adults experienced sexual abuse during childhood.
  
  
• 17,727 sexual crimes against children under 16 were recorded in England and Wales in 2010/11.

Reference : Prevalence and incidence of child abuse and neglect | statistics | NSPCC

So i think Foad meant to say that if we want to act similarly to mention every single problem happening in your homeland or other homelands then we will post everyday many accidents and it is really as he said looks funny and not dreadful.

 

[oldbadger]

No i don't think he means such small things as child beating but other horrifying issues,one example is this

As reported in UK

Statistics on child sexual abuse


June 2012

• Nearly a quarter of young adults experienced sexual abuse during childhood.
  
  
• 17,727 sexual crimes against children under 16 were recorded in England and Wales in 2010/11.

Reference : Prevalence and incidence of child abuse and neglect | statistics | NSPCC

So i think Foad meant to say that if we want to act similarly to mention every single problem happening in your homeland or other homelands then we will post everyday many accidents and it is really as he said looks funny and not dreadful.

You only mentioned the child-beatings ......... Why?

But we have statistics because people are no longer frightened to report and make allegations and give statements. In lots of lands there aren't such statistics?

I only mentioned the acid-attacks on girls and other stuff because of F0uad's post.

 

[FearGod]

You only mentioned the child-beatings ......... Why?

But we have statistics because people are no longer frightened to report and make allegations and give statements. In lots of lands there aren't such statistics?

I only mentioned the acid-attacks on girls and other stuff because of F0uad's post.

Those are accidents happening every where in the world and if we will post them here then imagine how funny it'll looks like.

For example this video which show how some british act cruelly against british muslim women which was taken by a hidden street camera.

Should i use it as a thread talking about how awful is british people because of the act of this guy in one single accident.

and i can post many accidents more than you could imagine and from your own homeland.

[youtube]HPBCiQ9qFW8[/youtube]
Guy punches muslim woman in face - YouTube

 

[oldbadger]

Those are accidents happening every where in the world and if we will post them here then imagine how funny it'll looks like.

Another distraction?

So what do you think?

Is the new Egyptian Government a dictatorship, or an infant theocracy, or..... what?

 

[FearGod]

Another distraction?

So what do you think?

Is the new Egyptian Government a dictatorship, or an infant theocracy, or..... what?

Similar question can be asked

is the British government a dictatorship, or an infant theocracy by sending their troops to Afghanistan.

UK troops arrested over Afghanistan child abuse claims