Egyptian family: 15 yrs for apostasy

[oldbadger]

Similar question can be asked

is the British government a dictatorship, or an infant theocracy by sending their troops to Afghanistan.

Another distraction?

OK........ so you and I both don't know whether the new Egyptian Government is a dictatorship or an infant-theocracy or..... ?

 

[Musty]

Prison for changing your mind? Stupid

 

[moegypt]

I knew from the beginning that all of the "arab spring" nonsense would only be replacing old dictatorships with new dictatorships. Nothing else is possible in such deeply religious societies.

There will no be any new dictatorships in Egypt...This thing died.

 

[moegypt]

Prison for changing your mind? Stupid

I think you need to read more posts in this thread to know the reason.

The reason is faslifying documents not at all changing religion or mind!

 

[moegypt]

If they're not being punished for the conversion, why does the article mention the conversion no less than three times? Why is it important that they changed the religion listed on their ID at all -- why do their ID's list a religious affiliation in the first place? Isn't that just begging for abuse somewhere down the line?

Because of the writer of the article! That is all.

This is the rules and law in Egypt...You have to update the government with exact information...For database,For statistics,for anything.

 

[McBell]

I think you need to read more posts in this thread to know the reason.

The reason is faslifying documents not at all changing religion or mind!

What did she falsify?

 

[moegypt]

What did she falsify?

In this thread,You will find many times the translation of the whole story

 

[McBell]

Lets point fingers at Muslims or "Islamic" countries at-least this way we will feel better about ourselves.

Is this the reason you avoid the thread topic and instead spend all your posts pointing fingers at every where (or is it any where?) else?

 

[McBell]

In this thread,You will find many times the translation of the whole story

The ONE translation in the thread seems to claim that she presented forged birth certificates in order to change their Muslim names to Christian names so she may claim a family inheritance.

Why would she need a Christian name in order to claim a family inheritance?


I also find it interesting that your whole contribution to this thread is to claim that her conversion to Christianity had nothing to do with it, even though your own source claims otherwise and that you do not answer any questions other than to refer back to the source that demonstrates your blatant denial...

 

[FearGod]

Because of the writer of the article! That is all.

This is the rules and law in Egypt...You have to update the government with exact information...For database,For statistics,for anything.

i agree that the reason is bribing the state officials to falsify the documents but i think that punishment is harsh to be 15 years in prison for bribing and forgery.

i don't know what punishment for bribing government officials and forgery in other countries.

But in all cases the president of egypt has nothing to do with the court decision.

 

[McBell]

But in all cases the president of egypt has nothing to do with the court decision.

Based on what little I have been able to dig up, and let me tell you it is very little, I have to agree that the president was not involved in the court decision.

 

[Father Heathen]

There will no be any new dictatorships in Egypt...This thing died.

Imprisoning people based merely on their beliefs is tyranny and injustice, period.

 

[McBell]

Imprisoning people based merely on their beliefs is tyranny and injustice, period.

I agree.
However, that does not appear to be the case here.

Don't get me wrong, it is possible that the whole forgery thing is nothing more than someone claiming that once they converted to Islam that converting back to Christianity is a lie, thus leading to the forgery charge, however, regardless of the fact that I have seen the claim more than once, I have not seen anything at all that gives this scenario any credence.
.

 

[F0uad]

Is this the reason you avoid the thread topic and instead spend all your posts pointing fingers at every where (or is it any where?) else?

No i do this so people should stop pointing fingers at Muslim governments or Muslims in general. I am not pointing the finger here i am simply showing in what kind of hypocrisy most of the people are living.

A real sincere person with a conscious is not going to point fingers at Egypt when one thing seems bad (when they actually do not even know the story).
When there own government and justice department is failing on all grounds this is just hypocrisy in its finest in my eyes.

 

[F0uad]

It wouldn't matter if it were only a day; committing injustices while abusing power is tyranny.

If this is the case i can call Obama a mass-murder, dictator and so forth..

Such as?

Are you kidding me?

 

[F0uad]

F0uad, can you ever debate the real issues or do you always have to point out how "bad" the West is to make Islamic societies look "not so bad" somehow?

I actually agree that a lot of blame and slander is going on with the new Egyptian president, as he has inherited huge problems and instability that has been festering for decades... and hasn't had adequate time to rectify much. However, your point is lost when you turn defensive and start pointing fingers. Reminds me of my 4-year-old pointing her finger at my 6-year-old exclaiming, "she did it fiiiiiiiirssssttttt"!

Remember, there are still four fingers pointing back at you.

There is not a single finger pointing at me since i am not the Morsi nor did i wrote the constitution nor was the person sentenced for 15 years because of converting and it isn't even the country where i am living in.

Its funny how you accuse me of pointing fingers when in truth they are the ones who were pointing fingers where did i say that Obama was a dictator? I simply made the notion that its stupid to call a other government bad when your own government is much worse.

Do you honestly think i care about how Americans or Western people who like to demonize the Muslim world 24/7 think about the government of Egypt? I am not even from that country nor do i care about these people.

Hopefully you can open your eyes once and stop thinking that America is really that great.
Do you think America is great?

 

[beenie]

There is not a single finger pointing at me since i am not the Morsi nor did i wrote the constitution nor was the person sentenced for 15 years because of converting and it isn't even the country where i am living in.

Its funny how you accuse me of pointing fingers when in truth they are the ones who were pointing fingers where did i say that Obama was a dictator? I simply made the notion that its stupid to call a other government bad when your own government is much worse.

Do you honestly think i care about how Americans or Western people who like to demonize the Muslim world 24/7 think about the government of Egypt? I am not even from that country nor do i care about these people.

Hopefully you can open your eyes once and stop thinking that America is really that great.
Do you think America is great?

Uhhh, no I don't. Every society has its issues and America is no exception. I'm just tired of Muslims, who don't even live in the West, acting like they know everything about people here. I am the first to clarify if people misrepresent Muslims too, so please relax a little.

I also think it's interesting that you point out how horrible the US government is. I'd love to see how many people are flocking to Islamic Republics around the world compared to those fleeing from them. Look, both sides have issues, but it's easier to accuse the other of being *that much* worse.

The number of Americans demonizing Muslims is a small one, just as many Muslims are terrorists.

I already said I agree with you about Egypt's president, so I don't know why you're attacking me again with that.

Peace, F0uad...

 

[JayJayDee]

Nah...Xians were a pretty violent bunch regarding religious purity at times too (auto de fe, witch burning).
So the question is why they did they calm down, but Islam is still so vulnerable to theocratic misbehavior?
I don't have a clue.

Why is it that people who look at the atrocious behavior of the Catholic church in in the early centuries and assume that they were Christians? Jesus said "by their fruits" or actions, people would see who his real disciples were. They would imitate Christ in their actions and attitudes. Since when can we see Jesus burning people alive at the stake for merely possessing the word of God? Where were the 'inquisitors' in the first century Christian congregation? If people wanted to sin unrepentantly back then, or to create discord or outright rebellion, they were excommunicated......not murdered or tortured!

Jesus did not force himself or his teachings on anyone. He gave his sermons and allowed people to do with them as they wished. Even when they misunderstood his words, he did not chase after them. He counted on the sincere ones to think again and return to the well to quench their spiritual thirst.

How can God only want obedience out of fear? God's law has to be obeyed because you love God and can see the benefit of obeying him. You cannot legislate love for God or obedience from the heart by threatening people. God hates hypocrisy, therefore he hates people who make a pretense of being religious when their heart is somewhere else. Mere performances of religious ritual is empty and meaningless.....like repetitious prayers, they do not come from the heart. :sad:

Christians reflect Jesus' attitudes and actions. That means loving even one's enemies. You do not harm them, but still treat them with human dignity, respecting their choices. That is why free will is so precious. We choose our own destiny by exercising that free choice.

 

[JayJayDee]

I also think it's interesting that you point out how horrible the US government is. I'd love to see how many people are flocking to Islamic Republics around the world compared to those fleeing from them. Look, both sides have issues, but it's easier to accuse the other of being *that much* worse.

I have watched documentaries and forums here in Australia about Muslim beliefs and attitudes displayed here.

I was rather surprised to discover that there are many "branches" of Islam....all with conflicting views.

In Australia, our welfare system is flooded with Muslims who have fled the awful conditions in their own countries, and sought a better life here. Many are taking advantage of our generosity, using it as an open field for fraud and misappropriation. Muslim men with several wives and children in different households are claiming benefits for all of them whilst not lifting their rear ends of a couch to work to support their own families. Australian taxpayers are fully supporting their new lifestyle. They would not be so well off in their own countries. And they laugh at us because we do it. We are the stupid ones for giving them a system they can exploit apparently.
This is what gives people a bad taste in their mouths. Other Muslims want to force the local people to respect their religion, when they have no respect for ours.

I am speaking in generalities here because not all Muslims display these characteristics. It's the ones who do that create the bad feelings.

The more radical elements are a terrible advertisement for Islam in general and this is what the media focuses on. No Australians welcome this element into our country, yet we are powerless to stop them. They are a endless source of fighting and turmoil that we can do without.

Many are hard and embittered by their former lives and end up bringing their battles to our shores. They in turn indoctrinate their children with the same attitudes and hatreds. Some extremists who engage in terrorism are "home grown".

We have enough ratbags of our own...we don't need these people trying to create the very problems that they have fled from in their former countries.

When Muslims try to tell us how bad we are, we just feel like showing them their own dregs and the constant trouble they cause, and saying "please clean up your own backyard first"...maybe then there will be grounds to complain about us. :sad:

 

[F0uad]

Uhhh, no I don't. Every society has its issues and America is no exception. I'm just tired of Muslims, who don't even live in the West, acting like they know everything about people here. I am the first to clarify if people misrepresent Muslims too, so please relax a little.

I also think it's interesting that you point out how horrible the US government is. I'd love to see how many people are flocking to Islamic Republics around the world compared to those fleeing from them. Look, both sides have issues, but it's easier to accuse the other of being *that much* worse.

The number of Americans demonizing Muslims is a small one, just as many Muslims are terrorists.

I already said I agree with you about Egypt's president, so I don't know why you're attacking me again with that.

Peace, F0uad...

I meant no hostile attitude i lived in Holland (The West) for over 22 Years i adapted to there culture, system and way of live i even speak better Dutch then the general population living there so in a sense i was/am a Western my self.

I honestly belief your wrong when you said there aren't that many people who demonize Islam, Arabs and the East. Its done publicly, on television (holly-wood) for example, government parties what do you expect with this kind of foreign policies that the west is continuing to follow they have to.

But honestly don't you find it frustrating when people are pointing fingers at one (who ever it may be) when he himself didn't look at the mirror? Shouldn't one not reflect? I am simply trying to be the mirror i am not justifying anyone as you could see.

Salaam.