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Egyptian lawyer sues Netflix over Queen Cleopatra

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member


I've heard of "whitewashing" history, but I've never heard of "blackwashing" history before now.

An Egyptian lawyer has filed a case with the Public Prosecutor to close the Netflix platform after the trailer of “Queen Cleopatra" was released, which depicts the Greek historical figure as a black-skinned woman.

According to Egypt Independent, Mahmoud al-Semary demanded that all legal measures be taken against those responsible for the documentary and the management of the streaming platform for its participation in “this crime.” He also called for an investigation and for Netflix to be blocked in Egypt.

The complaint submitted against the streaming platform said that "most of what Netflix platform displays contradicts Islamic and societal values and principles, especially Egyptian ones."

It added that the platform displayed advertisements that attracted millions of people in the world to watch the documentary Queen Cleopatra, who was of Greek origin depicting her as black woman, unlike Egyptian history and civilization.

The case said that the documentary promotes Afrocentrism that is widely spread on social media, which have slogans and writings aimed at distorting and obliterating the Egyptian identity.

The complaint continued addressing Public Prosecution: "In order to preserve the Egyptian national and cultural identity among Egyptians all over the world and take pride in it, and to consolidate the spirit of belonging to the homeland, and accordingly we ask and seek you to take the necessary legal measures against this platform."

It demanded stopping broadcasts showing all works aimed at obliterating and distorting the Egyptian identity, through films aimed at falsifying and distorting history in Egypt.

The complaint accused makers of the documentary and platform management of forgery.

I've read that Cleopatra and the Ptolemies were of Greek origin, although they were in Egypt for centuries before Cleopatra was born. This other article (Inside The Cleopatra 'Race Controversy' — And Why Some Believe That She Was Black) examines the question, but the answer is that no one really knows.

I haven't had Netflix in years, not since they dropped The Rockford Files from their lineup. So, I have not seen this latest production about Cleopatra.

Could Cleopatra have been black? Does this Egyptian lawyer have a viable case? I'd be interested in hearing @Debater Slayer's take on this.

What do you think about this case?

Cleopatra has drawn a great deal of fascination from popular culture, although I wonder how much of it is legend and how much is actual history.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
Could Cleopatra have been black? Does this Egyptian lawyer have a viable case? I'd be interested in hearing @Debater Slayer's take on this.

What do you think about this case?
We have a sculpture of Cleopatra:
800px-Kleopatra-VII.-Altes-Museum-Berlin1.jpg


I think the Greek heritage is clear.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Could Cleopatra have been black? Does this Egyptian lawyer have a viable case? I'd be interested in hearing @Debater Slayer's take on this.

There's no scholarly evidence that Cleopatra was black, and the series does lend tacit credence to racist Afrocentric narratives that claim current Egyptians are not related to ancient Egyptians and that ancient Egyptians were black Africans who were then displaced or kicked out of the country by "foreign conquerors." Afrocentrism is an unscientific and historically sloppy ideology that has tinges of racial supremacism, and most Egyptians don't appreciate how it tries to deny our connection to our own land and history.

According to Afrocentrism, African history and culture began in ancient Egypt, which was the birthplace of world civilization. Egypt presided over a unified Black Africa until its ideas and technologies were stolen and its record of accomplishments obscured by Europeans. Afrocentrists assert that traditional African culture contrasts with European culture in being more informed by its history (“circular” rather than “linear”); more cooperative; more intuitive; and more closely integrated with the spiritual world of gods and ghosts. Renewed attention to this culture, they argue, can benefit African Americans psychologically by reminding them that their own culture, which was long devalued by Americans of European descent, has a rich and ancient heritage.


The series has generated so much controversy that a parliament member proposed banning Netflix in the country. I disagree with banning any platform for something like this, of course, and some nationalists or ideological zealots sometimes propose these outlandish bans during incidents involving a lot of outrage, but the series is problematic, and Jada Pinkett Smith's response was both disrespectful and American-centric. She and the show's producer didn't demonstrate any desire to understand or acknowledge another culture's and nation's perspective; they just brushed aside any concerns in a self-righteous stroke.

But the producer said "her heritage is highly debated" and the actress playing her told critics: "If you don't like the casting, don't watch the show."

Jada Pinkett Smith, the American actress who was executive producer and narrator, was meanwhile quoted as saying: "We don't often get to see or hear stories about black queens, and that was really important for me, as well as for my daughter, and just for my community to be able to know those stories because there are tons of them!"

But when the trailer was released last week many Egyptians condemned the depiction of Cleopatra.

Zahi Hawass, a prominent Egyptologist and former antiquities minister, told the al-Masry al-Youm newspaper: "This is completely fake. Cleopatra was Greek, meaning that she was light-skinned, not black."

Mr Hawass said the only rulers of Egypt known to have been black were the Ku****e kings of the 25th Dynasty (747-656 BC).

"Netflix is trying to provoke confusion by spreading false and deceptive facts that the origin of the Egyptian civilisation is black," he added and called on Egyptians to take a stand against the streaming giant.


There was also a now-removed petition on Change.org to cancel the movie, which apparently reached 85,000 signatures within just two days:


“Afrocentrism is a pseudoscience that is pushing a group’s agenda to claim Egypt’s history and rob the actual Egyptians of it. By using false articles and zero evidence, they are still attempting to falsify history,” read the petition’s opening description.

“Cleopatra was born in Alexandria, Egypt in the Ptolemaic dynasty to Greek descent. She was NOT black. This is in no way against black people, and is simply a wake up call to preserve the history and the integrity of the Egyptians and the Greeks.”


If this had been a black queen being depicted as a light-skinned North African or European woman, I strongly doubt a response like Jada Smith's would be socially acceptable. I'm almost sure it would be called out as racism, erasure, or "cultural appropriation." If she wanted to produce a show about a black queen, she could have used another story instead of irresponsibly leaning into Afrocentrist narratives that disrespect another country's heritage and are ironically racist.

American identity politics is irrelevant to the majority of people living in Africa, and many Egyptians certainly aren't supportive of having racist and pseudo-historical narratives presented in movies as actual history and glorified as some story of a "black queen." This is an example of toxic American politics seeping into other regions and its purveyors being completely oblivious about and disrespectful to the history and sensitivities of a place outside the US. Jada Pinkett Smith and the rest of the series' producers and crew seem not to mind propagating racism in their self-righteous pursuit of "diversity" even if it comes at the cost of spreading harmful narratives.
 
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Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Another example of patronizing, self-aggrandizing identity politics from an American who apparently wants to lecture Egyptians on how we should see ourselves and our own heritage:

Perhaps, it’s not just that I’ve directed a series that portrays Cleopatra as Black, but that I have asked Egyptians to see themselves as Africans, and they are furious at me for that. I am okay with this.

While shooting, I became the target of a huge online hate campaign. Egyptians accused me of “blackwashing” and “stealing” their history. Some threatened to ruin my career — which I wanted to tell them was laughable. I was ruining it very well for myself, thank you very much! No amount of reasoning or reminders that Arab invasions had not yet happened in Cleopatra’s age seemed to stem the tide of ridiculous comments. Amir in his bedroom in Cairo wrote to me to earnestly appeal that “Cleopatra was Greek!” Oh, Lawd! Why would that be a good thing to you, Amir? You’re Egyptian.


She seems surprised that an Egyptian desires historical accuracy in a movie about his country. Instead of framing the question in terms of historical facts and in terms of why promoting Afrocentrism is both problematic and irresponsible, she just asks "Why would that be a good thing to you, Amir?" as if history were subject to what we thought was "good" or "bad."

Also, most Egyptians I have ever met do see themselves as Africans. This is clear in multiple ways ranging from viewing Sudan as a "sister nation" to supporting African teams in sports because they represent the same continent. Perhaps the director has spoken to some Egyptians who are of the "we're only Arab!" variety, but she doesn't exactly have much room to criticize that considering that the narrative she's leaning into, Afrocentrism, is just as historically inaccurate and racist.

I thought the progressive thing to do was to respect other cultures and listen to people from said cultures about their concerns and lived experiences. What gives? Has all of that flown out of the window this time because the crew behind this movie prioritize their American-centric identity politics over these values?
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
I've heard of "whitewashing" history, but I've never heard of "blackwashing" history before now.
It's not the first time.

Black Anne Boleyn:
MV5BMDVlMTliZTAtMjliZC00NjA3LWEzOGUtYTRjNjhmNTE4ZmM4XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMTMxNjUyMDkx._V1_FMjpg_UX1...jpg

Black female Viking jarl on the Vikings: Valhalla show (they managed to get both the sex and ethnicity wrong!):
caroline-henderson-jaral-haakon.jpg


It's ridiculous, offensive and very hypocritical. I'll stick with Liz as Cleopatra. Can't top her, anyway.
Elizabeth-Taylor-as-Cleop-007.jpg
 
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Callisto

Hellenismos, BTW
The Ptolemaic dynasty were 100% Macedonians. Greeks.

It's evident also in the Cleopatra's bust, I guess.
Also Greek (Koine) was her primary language, she later chose to learn Egyptian and a few other languages.

If they ever find the Ptolemies' tombs, a lot will be verified once DNA is tested. Cleopatra's mother's (Cleo V) origins are not certain, though it's considered a possibility that she and Ptolemy XII (Cleopatra's dad) were siblings so if his tomb is found then that could solve part of or all of her ancestry. Archaeologists thought they found her younger sister's remains but that identification is inconclusive (plus there's debate as to whether they were full or half-sisters, the latter would create another wrinkle if true).
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
I have met Egyptian people that have emphatically stated that they are not black. They considered themselves to be Arabic and white.

There are black Egyptians, mainly in Nubia, although the majority of Egyptians indeed aren't black. We tend to be tan or brown, and some are light-skinned enough to be mistaken for white people.


Not that skin color even matters; it's the promulgation of the toxic ideology of Afrocentrism that is generating so much backlash against the Netflix series.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
It's ridiculous, offensive and very hypocritical. I'll stick with Liz as Cleopatra. Can't top her, anyway.
Elizabeth-Taylor-as-Cleop-007.jpg
There's a wonderful play by the Canadian playwrite Michel Tremblay, about a drag queen who plans to copy Liz's Cleo, but all of her "friends" at the club get wind of it, and do it better. She and her boyfriend ("Cuirette" or perhaps leatherette) have to cope with here deep disappointment, and the state of their relationship. The play is called "Hosanna."


I had a boyfriend once, long ago, who played Hosanna, and who eventually became artistic director of a major Canadian theatrical company.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
There's a wonderful play by the Canadian playwrite Michel Tremblay, about a drag queen who plans to copy Liz's Cleo, but all of her "friends" at the club get wind of it, and do it better. She and her boyfriend ("Cuirette" or perhaps leatherette) have to cope with here deep disappointment, and the state of their relationship. The play is called "Hosanna."


I had a boyfriend once, long ago, who played Hosanna, and who eventually became artistic director of a major Canadian theatrical company.
Sounds very interesting! I wish I could see it.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Sounds very interesting! I wish I could see it.
It doesn't get produced often. Of course, I saw my boyfriend in it (several nights), and it was resurrected at the Stratford Festival in Canada. There is one version you can watch on YouTube, but it is in French (mostly "joual" which is the Quebecoise dialect).

Or, a short snippet of the English translation -- but I can't find a complete version in English.

I've seen the play several times.
 

We Never Know

No Slack


I've heard of "whitewashing" history, but I've never heard of "blackwashing" history before now.





I've read that Cleopatra and the Ptolemies were of Greek origin, although they were in Egypt for centuries before Cleopatra was born. This other article (Inside The Cleopatra 'Race Controversy' — And Why Some Believe That She Was Black) examines the question, but the answer is that no one really knows.

I haven't had Netflix in years, not since they dropped The Rockford Files from their lineup. So, I have not seen this latest production about Cleopatra.

Could Cleopatra have been black? Does this Egyptian lawyer have a viable case? I'd be interested in hearing @Debater Slayer's take on this.

What do you think about this case?

Cleopatra has drawn a great deal of fascination from popular culture, although I wonder how much of it is legend and how much is actual history.

Read that this morning. What's next, a white guy playing MLK?

This meme was already out today. Some won't like it but I chuckled. Humor is sometimes cruel.

**mod edit**
 
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Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
There's a wonderful play by the Canadian playwrite Michel Tremblay, about a drag queen who plans to copy Liz's Cleo, but all of her "friends" at the club get wind of it, and do it better. She and her boyfriend ("Cuirette" or perhaps leatherette) have to cope with here deep disappointment, and the state of their relationship. The play is called "Hosanna."


I had a boyfriend once, long ago, who played Hosanna, and who eventually became artistic director of a major Canadian theatrical company.
Taylor was superb, but after studying the sources (Plutarch mainly), I think Lindsey Marshal's performance was the most historically reliable. As for her personality. And looks.

 

Heyo

Veteran Member
Not that skin color even matters; it's the promulgation of the toxic ideology of Afrocentrism that is generating so much backlash against the Netflix series.

I haven't seen the series, so I can't say if it is ideological or depicting history wrong. Is it?

If it is only the skin colour of the actress, then the hassle is ridiculous. That's what acting is, pretending to be what you aren't. In Shakespeare's time all actors were male, some depicting women. Othello was usually played by a white dude with blackface. John Wayne played Genghis Khan. Tilda Swindon played The Ancient One. Humans are playing Vulcans and Klingons.
So, a black actress playing Cleopatra - no problem.
A series which claims to have documentary character which depicts the Ptolemaians as Africans - severe historical misrepresentation.
 
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