Egyptian loanwords in the Torah

[River Sea]

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala @GoodAttention

The Indo-Aryan Controversy: Did they ever enter the Indian subcontinent from the outside? Or did these people develop indigenously in the Greater Panjab?

The Indo-Aryan Controversy: Did they ever enter the Indian subcontinent from the outside? Or did these people develop indigenously in the Greater Panjab?

https://ia802909.us.archive.org/6/items/EdwinBryantLauriePattonIndoAryanControversyEvidenceAndInferenceInIndianHistoryRoutledge2005/Edwin%20Bryant%2C%20Laurie%20Patton-Indo-Aryan%20Controversy_%20Evidence%20and%20Inference%20in%20Indian%20History-Routledge%20%282005%29.pdf

Michael Witzel begins on page 354 with the number shown on the left, or number 341 at the bottom of the page. This is the same page where Michael Witzel begins.

Same book lets do this help me with this though, because I might not able to do this, I need your help

https://ia802909.us.archive.org/6/items/EdwinBryantLauriePattonIndoAryanControversyEvidenceAndInferenceInIndianHistoryRoutledge2005/Edwin%20Bryant%2C%20Laurie%20Patton-Indo-Aryan%20Controversy_%20Evidence%20and%20Inference%20in%20Indian%20History-Routledge%20%282005%29.pdf

Something happened with languages and what was the debate again

You did ask let's debate this

The Indo-Aryan Controversy: Evidence and Inference in Indian History

This is a long read, over 500 pages.

I learned about this book from @Bharat Jhunjhunwala and I'll put it here in case anyone is interested.

Michael Witzel starts on page 354.

Michael Witzel asked?
Who were the “Aryans”? What was their spiritual
and material culture and their outlook on life? Did they ever enter the Indian
subcontinent from the outside? Or did these people develop indigenously in the
Greater Panjab?

 

[River Sea]

What was Michael Witzel writing about any loan words we can study and look at or debate?

THE INDO-ARYAN CONTROVERSY

Controversy how and what all happened because of this?

Additionally, authors
debate whether contact between Indo-Aryan and non-Indo-Aryan languages (such
as Dravidian or Munda)

What was this debate about the Dravidian and Munda can you let me know please @GoodAttention @Bharat Jhunjhunwala

 

[River Sea]

What's this all about?
@Bharat Jhunjhunwala @GoodAttention @paarsurrey

Ferdinand Hennerbichler

The Origin of Kurds

The Origin of Kurds

www.academia.edu

 

[paarsurrey]

View attachment 95820

What's this all about?
@Bharat Jhunjhunwala @GoodAttention @paarsurrey

The Origin of Kurds

The Origin of Kurds

www.academia.edu

Kindly ask some Dravidian, please, right?

Regards
_____________

Five thousand years ago, cities like Harappa and Mohenjo-Daro thrived in the Indus Valley. They were inhabited by Dravidians, indigenous Indians. However, around four thousand years ago, the Indus Valley Civilization was in decline, and a new people, the Aryans, moved in.
Aryan Invasion of India | History, Facts & Impact - Study.com
OOO

Dravidians form the majority of the population of South India and Northern Sri Lanka.[2]
Dravidian languages were formerly much more widespread and were supplanted by the incoming Indo-Aryan languages.[49]
The Indus Valley civilisation (2,600–1,900 BCE) located in the northwest of the Indian subcontinent is sometimes identified as having been Dravidian.[55][47]

Dravidian peoples - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

View attachment 95820

What's this all about?
@Bharat Jhunjhunwala @GoodAttention @paarsurrey

The Origin of Kurds

The Origin of Kurds

www.academia.edu

In this picture I have circled the area of a migration at 3500 BCE from North India to Israel. That matches with the Exodus.

 

[River Sea]

Kindly ask some Dravidian, please, right?

Regards
_____________

Five thousand years ago, cities like Harappa and Mohenjo-Daro thrived in the Indus Valley. They were inhabited by Dravidians, indigenous Indians. However, around four thousand years ago, the Indus Valley Civilization was in decline, and a new people, the Aryans, moved in.
Aryan Invasion of India | History, Facts & Impact - Study.com
OOO
Dravidians form the majority of the population of South India and Northern Sri Lanka.[2]
Dravidian languages were formerly much more widespread and were supplanted by the incoming Indo-Aryan languages.[49]
The Indus Valley civilisation (2,600–1,900 BCE) located in the northwest of the Indian subcontinent is sometimes identified as having been Dravidian.[55][47]

Dravidian peoples - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

@what's this @GoodAttention

loanwords borrow words of Dravidian to what language?

@paarsurrey Kindly ask some Dravidian?

 

[jhonsteve111]

Hi, Just saw this thread and after reading this I want to ask when Egyptian loanwords entered the Hebrew language in the Torah. Could it have been during the Exodus, the time in Alexandria, or later during the Torah’s transmission?

 

[River Sea]

Hi, Just saw this thread and after reading this I want to ask when Egyptian loanwords entered the Hebrew language in the Torah. Could it have been during the Exodus, the time in Alexandria, or later during the Torah’s transmission?

@jhonsteve111

I extremely could be wrong at this: the reasoning why I was asking was because Pharaoh Ptolemy was Greek. So would 'maybe' 'the' Greek language be the middle ground between the Egyptian and Hebrew speakers, due to the powerful ruler being Greek? This caused the blending of two other languages to create a borrowing loan means of words instead of only using either Egyptian or Hebrew. Yet then how would the Greek language causes the blending of the two languages of Egyptian and Hebrew, which then causes borrow loanwords?

Was Greek the language between Egyptians and Hebrew that contributed to these Egyptian loanwords? Because what language did Egyptians speak, so was Greek a combination of Egyptian and Hebrew that enabled borrowing loanwords?

Because I'm wondering how Pharaoh Ptolemy understood Hebrew while living in Egypt and ruling over Egypt. However, was Greek the language between Egyptians and Hebrews, enabling the borrowing of loan words? Was Greek the language of the Egyptians and the Hebrews?

How come Ptolemy II, the Greek Pharaoh of Egypt, sought where Mitsrayim was located because he was speaking to 70 Jewish rulers who spoke Hebrew? What concern did Ptolemy have about Mitsrayim? That's the Hebrews' concern from their own needs to research for their Torah; where's Ptolemy's own book from his own territory, such as Egypt? Why concern himself with the Hebrew Torah?

 

[River Sea]

Noonan says about 0.62 percent Persian and Egyptian loanwords in Hebrew. Thus the time of contact would be similar.. less than a century. That means the loanwords may have been loaned in 14th to 13th c bce after the exodus. How do you understand this?

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala how do we understand this, can you help me with this and what were these Egyptian loanwords during the time of St. Ezra and who's St. Ezra?

Areas of my earlier post, some of it was deleted because I couldn't show where. @Bharat Jhunjhunwala you wrote about St. Ezra, whom I never heard of, and I hadn't yet researched online about St. Ezra, however I continued this here, what are the Egyptian loanwords during the time of St. Ezra?

Here it is in quote

The exodus took place at c. 1500 BCE Moses revealed the Torah. The Jews settled in Israel. Around 600 BCE they were exiled to Babylon. Sometime, thereafter they returned. I have read that the Torah was “lost” at this time. St Ezra found a copy in a temple in Jerusalem. This manuscript became the basis of the present-day Bible.

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala I hadn't ever read the St. Ezra. What dates are S. Ezra. I just looked now online and is this the dates Ezra (fl. 480–440 BCE) so were there Egyptian loanwords during Ezra (fl. 480–440 BCE)?

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala
You wrote this at another place, and I showed where this place was, but it was deleted in my post. So now it looks like I wrote about St. Ezra when I don't even know who St. Ezra is.

So who is St. Ezra, and how would that be Egyptian borrowing loanwords during St. Ezra?

Also, will you please show how that would be written with the dates., as this is getting confusing?

Later, you @Bharat Jhunjhunwala wrote

One correction. At no 1, Jews settled in Israel at 1400 bce.

Then I wrote showing with BC and left out the E. As BC is a more exact date, where as E means approximate Here it is in quote

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala Thanks for your correction. Yeah, it was at 1445 BC when Exodus happened from the Indus Valley and arrived 40 years later in Israel. 1400 BC

Then I wrote as I learn about the little c

Thanks for explaining that the little c stands for circa. It means approximately; now I understand why it's acceptable to type 1500 because the little c means approximately. Thank you for explaining this to me.

You @Bharat Jhunjhunwala wrote

Loanwords ok. At 1900.1500 bce or at 1400.1300 bce. That is the question.

I'll say it's 1400 BCE to 1300 BCE when loanwords happened from Egypt: What do you think it is @Bharat Jhunjhunwala

Yet I never heard about loanwords during St. Ezra. So could you share about this, @Bharat Jhunjhunwala

What were these Egyptian loanwords during the time of St. Ezra, and who's St. Ezra?

 

[River Sea]

Hi, Just saw this thread and after reading this I want to ask when Egyptian loanwords entered the Hebrew language in the Torah. Could it have been during the Exodus, the time in Alexandria, or later during the Torah’s transmission?

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala Was it more than once when Egyptian borrowed loanwords happened? Instead of only one time?

Can you help me with this, please? How many times and when did the Egyptian borrow loanwords have happened, and how come Egyptians—what about the other way around—couldn't Egyptians gain words from other languages?

What is this word transmission? What is that, @jhonsteve111? Have you ever been involved in any transmissions before?

I'll look up this word transmission online. 'the action or process of transmitting something, or the state of being transmitted.'

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala @jhonsteve111 Have you ever been involved in the action or process of transmitting something?

 

[Balthazzar]

I was thinking last night about old Hebrew and numerology, and the linguistics involved in the language. This thread caught my attention for that reason. Gematria and Jewish mysticism and the science behind the original letters and numeral association is a fascinating subject. One I know very little about, but the inclusion of loanwords would alter, in theory, the purposed intent of that particular academic.

Thanks for starting this thread.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Hi, Just saw this thread and after reading this I want to ask when Egyptian loanwords entered the Hebrew language in the Torah. Could it have been during the Exodus, the time in Alexandria, or later during the Torah’s transmission?

My view is that the loan words entered Hebrew after they reached Israel. The area was under the control of the Egyptians at that time. So they borrowed.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

I was thinking last night about old Hebrew and numerology, and the linguistics involved in the language. This thread caught my attention for that reason. Gematria and Jewish mysticism and the science behind the original letters and numeral association is a fascinating subject. One I know very little about, but the inclusion of loanwords would alter, in theory, the purposed intent of that particular academic.

Thanks for starting this thread.

By letters if you mean the signs, then they would have been borrowed from prto.sinaitic. which in turn has 16 signs common with harappan signs.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala how do we understand this, can you help me with this and what were these Egyptian loanwords during the time of St. Ezra and who's St. Ezra?

Areas of my earlier post, some of it was deleted because I couldn't show where. @Bharat Jhunjhunwala you wrote about St. Ezra, whom I never heard of, and I hadn't yet researched online about St. Ezra, however I continued this here, what are the Egyptian loanwords during the time of St. Ezra?

Here it is in quote



@Bharat Jhunjhunwala I hadn't ever read the St. Ezra. What dates are S. Ezra. I just looked now online and is this the dates Ezra (fl. 480–440 BCE) so were there Egyptian loanwords during Ezra (fl. 480–440 BCE)?

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala
You wrote this at another place, and I showed where this place was, but it was deleted in my post. So now it looks like I wrote about St. Ezra when I don't even know who St. Ezra is.

So who is St. Ezra, and how would that be Egyptian borrowing loanwords during St. Ezra?

Also, will you please show how that would be written with the dates., as this is getting confusing?

Later, you @Bharat Jhunjhunwala wrote



Then I wrote showing with BC and left out the E. As BC is a more exact date, where as E means approximate Here it is in quote


Then I wrote as I learn about the little c

You @Bharat Jhunjhunwala wrote


I'll say it's 1400 BCE to 1300 BCE when loanwords happened from Egypt: What do you think it is @Bharat Jhunjhunwala

Yet I never heard about loanwords during St. Ezra. So could you share about this, @Bharat Jhunjhunwala

What were these Egyptian loanwords during the time of St. Ezra, and who's St. Ezra?

St Ezra was at 600 bce during Babylonia captivity.

 

[Balthazzar]

By letters if you mean the signs, then they would have been borrowed from prto.sinaitic. which in turn has 16 signs common with harappan signs.

I was honestly referring to Tetragrammaton, among the other original Hebrew letters as they are associated with Gematria in an application of numeric values and how they are applied to them. I know next to nothing about the how this works, but I have a passion for language, and it seems a worthwhile study.

I'm guessing gematria can be applied to other letters or terms of other languages in a similar fashion, but I would need to understand the principle to do so.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

I was honestly referring to Tetragrammaton, among the other original Hebrew letters as they are associated with Gematria in an application of numeric values and how they are applied to them. I know next to nothing about the how this works, but I have a passion for language, and it seems a worthwhile study.

I'm guessing gematria can be applied to other letters or terms of other languages in a similar fashion, but I would need to understand the principle to do so.

The application of Gematria comes only after a language is stabilized. I'm more interested in the evolution of the Hebrew language from the proto-Sinaitic and the Harappan languages. Thank you.

 

[River Sea]

Sorry to Ezra I have to move you back here.

So is Ezra 600 BCE or Ezra (fl. 480–440 BCE)

St Ezra was at 600 bce during Babylonia captivity.

Please explain this @Bharat Jhunjhunwala you shown 600 BCE how come?

Thread: The archaeological and historical evidence of the early history of the Jews before 600 BCE.


My first time will learn who is St. Ezra, and this shows 600 BCE, which will go well with the topic in this thread.

Keep in mind that at times I'll be wrong as I learn.
I'll begin with questions because that's how I learn.
I ask myself questions to keep me interested. Questions open my mind (in a delayed way, though) because it takes me time to process information.

Who is St. Ezra?
Why is Ezra a saint?
What was happening during 600 BCE surrounding Ezra?
What had you learned about Ezra that has helped you in your life?
What evidence is there to prove of the existence of Ezra?

There's my questions so far.

I do not know Ezra at all even though at another thread it appears I had written about Ezra. That was another misunderstanding as I was referencing from what @Bharat Jhunjhunwala had written from elsewhere.

No I am not an expert about Ezra: as of right now Ezra is a stranger, I no hardly nothing about Ezra except for this word Babylon which is what?

What is Babylon anyways?

I do not know this time period at all

So welcome me in this clumsiness in this about Ezra.

First, I gave a previous account of the known history of the Hebrews in the period in question.

Ezra is live later then you think. Not before 600 BCE, If you want find about Ezra simple google it,

Ezra - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

‎
Ezra (fl. 480–440 BCE)[a]Ezra - Wikipedia was an important Jewish scribe (sofer) and priest (kohen) in the early Second Temple period. In the Greek Septuagint, the name is rendered as Ésdrās (Ἔσδρας), from which the Latin name Esdras comes. His name is probably a shortened Aramaic translation of the Hebrew name עזריהו‎ (Azaryahu), meaning "Yah helps".

In the Hebrew Bible, or the Christian Old Testament, Ezra is an important figure in the books of Ezra and Nehemiah, which he is said to have written and edited, respectively. According to tradition, Ezra was also the author of the Books of Chronicles and the Book of Malachi.[4][5] Ezra was instrumental in restoring the Jewish scriptures and religion to the people after the return from the Babylonian Captivity, and is a highly respected figure in Judaism.[6] He is regarded as a saint in the Roman Catholic Church, which sets his feast day as July 13, the same as that of his contemporary, Nehemiah.[7] He is also venerated as a saint in the Eastern Orthodox Church, which sets his feast day on the Sunday of the Holy Forefathers.[8]

St Ezra was at 600 bce during Babylonia captivity.

Ezra (fl. 480–440 BCE)

Sorry Ezra you can't be in the thread of 600 BCE., so how come @Bharat Jhunjhunwala has 600 BCE then

Who is St. Ezra?
Why is Ezra a saint?
What was happening during 600 BCE surrounding Ezra?
What had you learned about Ezra that has helped you in your life?
What evidence is there to prove of the existence of Ezra?

 

[River Sea]

Good news, Ezra has a thread now. I earlier placed Ezra in a thread called The archaeological and historical evidence of the early history of the Jews before 600 BCE.

Sadly, I learned that Ezra doesn't belong in that thread and was told not to have Ezra in that thread, because Ezra in 400 BCE. Due to this situation, I then moved Ezra back here in this thread. Then I chose to make a thread just for Ezra so Ezra can have a home here in this forum.

Here's the thread

Who is St. Ezra? I'm learning about St. Ezra.

Warning I'm clumsy at this. Also I could get things mixes up and be wrong. Who is St. Ezra? I'm learning about St. Ezra and I already gotten in trouble. St Ezra was at 600 bce during Babylonia captivity. Yet I learned So is Ezra 600 BCE or Ezra (fl. 480–440 BCE) So Ezra are you in 600...

www.religiousforums.com

 

[River Sea]

I was thinking last night about old Hebrew and numerology, and the linguistics involved in the language. This thread caught my attention for that reason. Gematria and Jewish mysticism and the science behind the original letters and numeral association is a fascinating subject. One I know very little about, but the inclusion of loanwords would alter, in theory, the purposed intent of that particular academic.

Thanks for starting this thread.

@Balthazzar

Welcome to this discussion.

Please share what you learn and what you don't know: what are your questions, as we can communicate through questions too.

What are the Gematria and Jewish mysticism and the science behind the letters? What is original compared to what? What would not be original?

What all times were loanwords, all the time, sometimes, or a few times?

What was the era of the most times of loanwords, and are Egyptians mostly the loanwords compared to other times of other languages?

What is similar with Gematria and Jewish mysticism compared to Egyptian loanwords? Are loanwords and mysticism similar in anyways?

What is mysticism compared to loanwords, does that cause any mysticism in anyways, or do people not find any mysticism in loanwords and if not how come?

Please share your analysis, please, and if you don't know, what are your questions then?

 

[Balthazzar]

@Balthazzar

Welcome to this discussion.

Please share what you learn and what you don't know: what are your questions, as we can communicate through questions too.

What are the Gematria and Jewish mysticism and the science behind the letters? What is original compared to what? What would not be original?

What all times were loanwords, all the time, sometimes, or a few times?

What was the era of the most times of loanwords, and are Egyptians mostly the loanwords compared to other times of other languages?

What is similar with Gematria and Jewish mysticism compared to Egyptian loanwords? Are loanwords and mysticism similar in anyways?

What is mysticism compared to loanwords, does that cause any mysticism in anyways, or do people not find any mysticism in loanwords and if not how come?

Please share your analysis, please, and if you don't know, what are your questions then?

Is this my new assignment? I may start researching the questions. I'm slower than some, but I do intend to research possible associations with the atomic number chart and why they may have been utilized and issued to the elements as they are. I presume there will be some correspondence similar to the application assigned to the letters and the meanings behind them, but I'm uncertain.