"Egyptian Parliament Considers Outlawing Atheism"

[LuisDantas]

Every time I think I have braced myself sufficiently against further disappointment from Islaam, I am humbled again.

 

[kiwimac]

No religion has any moral high ground here. All of our faiths have persecuted others when we have had the power to do so. This happens, unsurprisingly, when 'faith' becomes synonymous with 'state.' I think it should be illegal for a country to hold a religious position, it gives people wholly unsuited for secular decision making too much power.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

It may soon be a criminal offense to be an atheist in Egypt.

Shortly before New Year’s Day, the Egyptian Parliament considered enacting a law that would make it illegal to profess no belief in God. It is already against Egyptian law to “insult” or “defame” religion, and blasphemy arrests are on the rise. A conviction can bring up to five years in prison.

The new measure would criminalize the act of not believing in God — no insults or defamation of another faith required.

The legislation was proposed Dec. 24 by Amro Hamroush, head of the Parliament’s committee on religion.

“It must be criminalized and categorized as contempt of religion because atheists have no doctrine and try to insult the Abrahamic religions,” Hamroush said in announcing the proposed law.

The legislation has the support of Egypt’s highest Islamic religious organization, the Al-Azhar. Mohamed Zaki, an Al-Azhar official, called it necessary “to punish those who have been seduced into atheism.”
source
​

Other than the idiocy of the position, what really got me was the reasoning for the punishment as mentioned in the last sentence.

"[it's] necessary “to punish those who have been seduced into atheism.”
​

Being seduced means one's critical thinking skills were " raped" and replaced by something one would normally not consider. In fact, the analogy to rape is a good one. The Al-Azhar official's stance is no different than blaming the victim of a rape for the rape.

Islam, go figure.

.



.

I suspect this is the Egyptian Deist Association finding an inventive way to drum up membership...

(and yes, my tongue is firmly in my cheek)

 

[YmirGF]

And of the 13 countries listed, Islam is the major religion in 12 of them. In Nigeria the religious affiliation is divided pretty equally between Islam and Christianity. 48.80% and 49.30% respectively.
.

Rather telling, doncha think? So much for religious tolerance, eh?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Can you imagine a Christian country contemplating such a measure in this day and age?

Don't think it hasn't been tried.

 

[Debater Slayer]

It may soon be a criminal offense to be an atheist in Egypt.

Shortly before New Year’s Day, the Egyptian Parliament considered enacting a law that would make it illegal to profess no belief in God. It is already against Egyptian law to “insult” or “defame” religion, and blasphemy arrests are on the rise. A conviction can bring up to five years in prison.

The new measure would criminalize the act of not believing in God — no insults or defamation of another faith required.

The legislation was proposed Dec. 24 by Amro Hamroush, head of the Parliament’s committee on religion.

“It must be criminalized and categorized as contempt of religion because atheists have no doctrine and try to insult the Abrahamic religions,” Hamroush said in announcing the proposed law.

The legislation has the support of Egypt’s highest Islamic religious organization, the Al-Azhar. Mohamed Zaki, an Al-Azhar official, called it necessary “to punish those who have been seduced into atheism.”
source
​

Other than the idiocy of the position, what really got me was the reasoning for the punishment as mentioned in the last sentence.

"[it's] necessary “to punish those who have been seduced into atheism.”
​

Being seduced means one's critical thinking skills were " raped" and replaced by something one would normally not consider. In fact, the analogy to rape is a good one. The Al-Azhar official's stance is no different than blaming the victim of a rape for the rape.

Islam, go figure.

.



.

Two things for further clarification only (I don't discuss Egyptian politics online):

1) While the proposed law has many backers both inside and outside of the parliament, there has also been criticism of it from religious parliament members as well as many Muslims on social media, who often cite "No compulsion in religion" and dialogue instead of legal penalties as their primary reasons for the opposition. So the proposal is far from unchallenged despite having a lot of support socially and in the parliament.

2) The proposed law probably would not in practice change much in terms of how atheism is generally viewed in Egypt, whether legally or socially. Several well-known Egyptian atheists have been prosecuted before under charges such as "contempt of religion"; the proposed law only seeks to double down on precedents of de facto prosecution by giving them more constitutional leeway.

For further information, look up the following names if you're interested:

- Kareem Amer

- Alber Saber

- Sherif Gaber

- Aliaa Elmahdy

- Hamed Abdel-Samad.

 

[Nakosis]

Egypt isn't a democracy.

So Wikipedia is wrong?

Politics of Egypt - Wikipedia

 

[Nakosis]

Note the difference between a comment about a religion, & about its adherents.
(They're not the same.)

I agree there's a difference since all Scotts think alike.

 

[Notanumber]

Don't think it hasn't been tried.

Where and when?

 

[LionLooking]

Islam, go figure.
.

Tarring all with the same brush is a dangerous game.
An in the US there are murderers - Americans, go figure.

 

[YmirGF]

So Wikipedia is wrong?

Politics of Egypt - Wikipedia

It is certainly not a democracy in the Western European and Americas sense, for sure. Don't forget the military seized power from the democratically elected Muslim Brotherhood and replaced President Morsi with General Sisi. Oddly, the military leader is quite popular.

 

[Curious George]

Two things for further clarification only (I don't discuss Egyptian politics online):

1) While the proposed law has many backers both inside and outside of the parliament, there has also been criticism of it from religious parliament members as well as many Muslims on social media, who often cite "No compulsion in religion" and dialogue instead of legal penalties as their primary reasons for the opposition. So the proposal is far from unchallenged despite having a lot of support socially and in the parliament.

2) The proposed law probably would not in practice change much in terms of how atheism is generally viewed in Egypt, whether legally or socially. Several well-known Egyptian atheists have been prosecuted before under charges such as "contempt of religion"; the proposed law only seeks to double down on precedents of de facto prosecution by giving them more constitutional leeway.

For further information, look up the following names if you're interested:

- Kareem Amer

- Alber Saber

- Sherif Gaber

- Aliaa Elmahdy

- Hamed Abdel-Samad.

I had kept checking this thread to see if you responded. I am saddened to hear that a more elaborate post on the topic will not come from you, but I understand that you may not be in a position to respond without reprisal. If such is the case, thank you for offering what you have.

Best regards,
George

 

[YmirGF]

Tarring all with the same brush is a dangerous game.
An in the US there are murderers - Americans, go figure.

Yeah, I guess we shouldn't point out that their are majority Muslim countries. We wouldn't want anyone to make any obvious connections now, would we?

 

[LionLooking]

Yeah, I guess we shouldn't point out that their are majority Muslim countries. We wouldn't want anyone to make any obvious connections now, would we?

You can point out that they are majority Muslim countries if you wish - just don't assume that all Muslims think in the same way.

 

[YmirGF]

I had kept checking this thread to see if you responded. I am saddened to here that a more elaborate post on the topic will not come from you, but I understand that you may not be in a position to respond without reprisal. If such is the case, thank you for offering what you have.

Best regards,
George

Exactly right, @Curious George though I would love to hear about topics in Egypt, at length, it is unlikely that short of outright praise for everything (and I mean everything) the government is doing may definitely cause repercussions as their government is monitoring the citizens output.

 

[YmirGF]

You can point out that they are majority Muslim countries if you wish - just don't assume that all Muslims think in the same way.

Why would I do that? I've been critiquing Islam for a very long time now and have learned that virtually no one, certainly not those on an internet forum, speak for all of Islam. It's like a herd of cats. Don't like an opinion? Just dig around till you find "scholars" who espouse your particular agenda.

 

[Skwim]

Tarring all with the same brush is a dangerous game.
An in the US there are murderers - Americans, go figure.

Sorry I neglected to spell it out for you. I sometimes forget that newbies like yourself are unfamiliar with RF's members, myself included.

.

.

 

[LionLooking]

Why would I do that?

Only you can answer that one.

I've been critiquing Islam for a very long time now and have learned that virtually no one, certainly not those on an internet forum, speak for all of Islam. It's like a herd of cats. Don't like an opinion? Just dig around till you find "scholars" who espouse your particular agenda.

Then it seems we agree - although, rather than critique a whole religion, I would only critique those with whom I disagree: a small minority.

 

[LionLooking]

Sorry I neglected to spell it out for you. I sometimes forget that newbies like yourself are unfamiliar with RF's members, myself included.
.

But you did spell it out - 'Islam, go figure' has an obvious meaning. Imagine the same words used to describe another group, 'Christians, go figure' 'Women, go figure' or ' Homosexuals, go figure'.
It is grouping millions of people with different opinions as all being the same.

 

[England my lionheart]

Only you can answer that one.

Then it seems we agree - although, rather than critique a whole religion, I would only critique those with whom I disagree: a small minority.

So what's a small minority of 1.6 billion people?