Elitism, Liberals, and the Poor

[ADigitalArtist]

It is indeed a general problem.
But the reason Democrats are mentioned is that
they've the reputation (in their own minds?) for
being more live-&-let-live than Republicans.
So when Dems refuse to allow high density housing,
tiny houses, mobile homes, van life, etc, it might
raise more eyebrows.

There are definitely government overreach in some of the cases. But most of the ones I see are people who think it's a 'live and let live' scenario but are blithely unaware of people effected by laissez faire policy negatively. They often agree that the right to punch ends at someone's nose but then don't accept that, for example, improper water storage can effect people literally downstream.

I use that example because for a while we saw alarmist 'government prohibits rain collection!' headlines when the article was really about a guy's makeshift Olympic pool reservoir which was contaminated and a breach risk to the watershed.

 

[Twilight Hue]

"I hear".
It isn't any easier to live off grid in Texas or Florida than it is in Oregon or California. All four states have strict water and sewage regulation and permits for land use, wildlife husbandry, limits on crop spread, clear cutting, burning etc.
People get kicked out of off grid for improper sanitation and water use all the time in Florida in particular.

Ironically Florida also makes living off grid harder because energy lobbyists make solar less accessible and more highly regulated. Guess who is in charge of those energy companies?

It's why the Dakota states would be my choice.

I want to correct that it's South Dakota as my preference as a potential nomad , and maybe I can legally still work physically in nys but have my permanent domicile in South Dakota. It's something I'm entertaining to escape nys oppressive taxes. I'd check with a lawyer first to see if that is a legal setup. It would however require I go to South Dakota and stay there overnight and change driver license and registration as well as obtaining a permanent domicile address.

 

[Twilight Hue]

"I hear".
It isn't any easier to live off grid in Texas or Florida than it is in Oregon or California. All four states have strict water and sewage regulation and permits for land use, wildlife husbandry, limits on crop spread, clear cutting, burning etc.
People get kicked out of off grid for improper sanitation and water use all the time in Florida in particular.

Ironically Florida also makes living off grid harder because energy lobbyists make solar less accessible and more highly regulated. Guess who is in charge of those energy companies?

BTW. For nomadic living. It's only Republican states that give the best freedoms for off grid living. Not Democrats whom prefer strict control and dependency over the poor and disadvantaged discouraging such lifestyles by evidence of their own policymaking.

 

[Revoltingest]

And many Republicans often tout "free speech" and "bodily autonomy" (concerning vaccines) but want to impose theocratic limits on topics they oppose (e.g., LGBT issues) and ban elective abortion.

Problematic policies should raise eyebrows regardless of what the groups espousing them claim to stand for.

Have you ever noticed that I disagree with
most Republicans on those issues?
I simply informed you why some see Dems
as hypocritical on housing issues. I never
intended to imply that only Dems had faults.

 

[Revoltingest]

There are definitely government overreach in some of the cases. But most of the ones I see are people who think it's a 'live and let live' scenario but are blithely unaware of people effected by laissez faire policy negatively. They often agree that the right to punch ends at someone's nose but then don't accept that, for example, improper water storage can effect people literally downstream.

I advocate environmental protection regulation.
But this needn't be at odds with permitting
cheap alternative housing for those in need.

I use that example because for a while we saw alarmist 'government prohibits rain collection!' headlines when the article was really about a guy's makeshift Olympic pool reservoir which was contaminated and a breach risk to the watershed.

I oppose contaminating water.
I favor more flexible policies for housing.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I advocate environmental protection regulation.
But this needn't be at odds with permitting
cheap alternative housing for those in need.

I oppose contaminating water.
I favor more flexible policies for housing.

I agree on both accounts. So long as the flexibility doesn't allow for negative unforseen consequences.

 

[Revoltingest]

I agree on both accounts. So long as the flexibility doesn't allow for negative unforseen consequences.

I hate unforeseen consequences.
Ya never see'm coming.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

BTW. For nomadic living. It's only Republican states that give the best freedoms for off grid living. Not Democrats whom prefer strict control and dependency over the poor and disadvantaged discouraging such lifestyles by evidence of their own policymaking.

I don't see this as being true. Having done considerable research on the subject. Granted my expertise is most in homesteading off grid but I do have friends who have been homeless in cars in different states and it was a heck of a lot easier for them in California and Oregon than it was in Florida.

 

[vulcanlogician]

Ignorance is frustrating.

And when people frustrate us with their lack of knowledge, part of us wants to blame them. But if someone doesn't know something, is it really their fault? Of course not. As pointed out in the OP, social circumstances and socio-economic status have a huge role to play in those things.

It's a contradiction in leftist values to be elitist. But... y'know... people aren't always logical. I've never been a fan of elitism. And I'm not happy when I see it (here and there) on the left. But a lot of that is internet posturing too, so...

 

[Valjean]

Is there any evidence that poorer people hold rightwing views in greater proportion than middle income or rich people? In USA non-college educated people need not be poor.

In the US your prosperity and lifespan is largely predicted by your zip code (postal code), race or ethnic group. In many regions, economic and educational opportunities are scant, even for male, Angelo Saxon Protestants.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I don't see this as being true. Having done considerable research on the subject. Granted my expertise is most in homesteading off grid but I do have friends who have been homeless in cars in different states and it was a heck of a lot easier for them in California and Oregon than it was in Florida.

7 Of The Worst States For Homesteading And The Reasons Why! – Redemption Permaculture

Check out the parties running those states.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

7 Of The Worst States For Homesteading And The Reasons Why! – Redemption Permaculture

Check out the parties running those states.

Several of those states are swing or red states, and the top three blue states listed are overwhelmingly because of either climate or cost of land and living. Not legislative, per your link.
Plus, legislative reasons given for one state (like solar limitations) also exist in states you find best, like Florida.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Several of those states are swing or red states, and the top three blue states listed are overwhelmingly because of either climate or cost of land and living. Not legislative, per your link.
Plus, legislative reasons given for one state (like solar limitations) also exist in states you find best, like Florida.

Most of it has to do with excessive and punitive regulation that discourages poor people to seek a sustainable, reasonably comfortable and far cheaper alternative to live for themselves and not for someone else.

It's just my opinion on it.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Most of it has to do with excessive and punitive regulation that discourages poor people to seek a sustainable, reasonably comfortable and far cheaper alternative to live for themselves and not for someone else.

It's just my opinion on it.

I disagree with your opinion, having grown up on a sustainability farm in a long time blue state for most of my life.

The biggest obstacles weren't legislative for us, nor anyone I know there in the lifestyle.
Today the biggest problem is what's effecting every state in the nation: corporate home buyout and house flipping driving up housing and land prices.
And the second biggest is wages haven't kept up with cost of living so most people can't afford the upfront.
The third is general ignorance. People thinking they can 'wing' off-grid living like it's easy and cheap to establish when it's neither. Their homesteads fail in a year or two because they didn't have the knowledge and skill to set up proper foundations.