Emergence of Bahai'ism

[Vinayaka]

Just a lot of Mahdi claimants, then messiah claimants, etc. Too many to take any one of them seriously. Of course each one who convinced anyone besides themselves got sort of a following. Not much has changed it seems.

 

[duvduv]

You are confused - C.T. Russell wasn't even born until 1852 although he did use similar calculations to arrive at the date for the second coming - which he originally thought was an invisible return that happened in 1874 and later amended to 1914 - to which doctrine Jehovah's Witnesses still hold to this day. But I think you might mean William Miller who did indeed predict a Messianic return in 1843/1844 - and which idea, some years later, the Baha'i movement stole and applied to the Bab.

Sorry, I meant William Miller, yes. Is there evidence of some connection to the Adventists by the Bab and then Baha'ullah besides membership in the Freemasons?

 

[duvduv]

Why am I getting the impression from what I am reading online about Baha'ism that essentially it is a one-world society along the lines of the Freemasons with a middle eastern flavor??

 

[siti]

Sorry, I meant William Miller, yes. Is there evidence of some connection to the Adventists by the Bab and then Baha'ullah besides membership in the Freemasons?

Nah! I don't think so - I think Miller was completely unaware that Christ had actually returned as promised in 1844 but in downtown Shiraz rather than upstate New York - probably just as well - the Millerites might have been even more disappointed if they'd realized that their long-awaited Messiah had indeed appeared, but as a Persian "Mahometan". Miller resigned his membership of the Freemasons in the 1830s and thereafter categorically denounced freemasonry as "evil". I don't see the connection of Freemasonry to the Bab and Baha'u'llah - unless it came later when the Baha'i faith was introduced to the US. I am fairly sure that was when the explicit connection to the Millerite "Great Disappointment" calculations was made. Neither the Bab nor Baha'u'llah seems to have had any inkling of Millerism as far as I can recall (I searched for it a while back and the connection definitely seemed to be made by American Bahai's long after both the Bab and Baha'u'llah had died.)

 

[Dawnofhope]

So how did mainstream Shiites waiting for the Promised Mahdi end up as advocates of a new religion headed by the Bab, Siyyid `Alí Muhammad Shírází?? Or was a he just a regular Shiite, but a renegade one?

Read the links provided and it will become clearer. The expectation of a redeemer of Islam and the world can be dated back to the 18th Century with Siyyid Kazim

Kazim Rashti - Wikipedia

and Shaykh Ahmad before him.

Shaykh Ahmad - Wikipedia

The Madhi prophecy is releavnt to both Shi'ites and Sunni if you had checked the link.

The Bab was independantly recognised by 18 people before His Message was proclaimed. The first was Mulla Husayn who went to extraordinary lengths to follow the Teachings of Siyyid Kazim to find the Promised One.

Mullá Husayn - Wikipedia

THE DAWN-BREAKERS---Chapter III

The Bab, like Muhammad was aware of His Divine Messenger Status long before He declared His mission publicly.

Baha'i Stories: The story of how the Bab’s wife, Khadijih Bagum, became a believer

 

[Dawnofhope]

So there were no social circumstances involved but merely numerical calculations not unlike the calculations in the same period of people liked Charles Taze Russell in 1843-44?

Interestingly there was a period of intense Messianic expectation in the West with some expectign the Return of Christ. One of them William Miller predicted 1844 the year the Bab declared.

William Miller (preacher) - Wikipedia

When it didn't appear to have happened the year was called the great disappointment.

William Miller (preacher) - Wikipedia

However the Baha'i Faith has nothing to do with William Miller except he correctly prophesied the year the Messiah would come. Nor do we form any special association with the seventh day adventists or freemasons.

 

[duvduv]

So these Shiites didn't have a great disappointment because the Bab imagined he was the fulfillment of the Shi'ite expectations. It was therefore only Baha'ullah who changed the religion. But what was it about the Bab that alienated the regime? Simply that he was a renegade seeking to overthrow the kingdom?

 

[paarsurrey]

What exactly was the historical context for the emergence of Bahai'ism from within the Shi'a sect of islam to the extent where it is considered non-Islamic and heretical to Islam according to both Sunni and Shi'a? Does it share ideas from pre-Islamic mystical Ali veneration or syncretism through contact with Hinduism?

All denominations of Islam including Shias/Sunnis believe Quran as their first and foremost source of guidance. Do Bahis also believe to be Quran as their first and the foremost source of guidance?
If not, then they as per their own belief, are not a denomination of Islam/Quran/Muhammad. Right, please?

Regards

 

[duvduv]

What is the difference between the Mahdi and the Qaim as messiah alongside Jesus?

 

[Dawnofhope]

So these Shiites didn't have a great disappointment because the Bab imagined he was the fulfillment of the Shi'ite expectations. It was therefore only Baha'ullah who changed the religion. But what was it about the Bab that alienated the regime? Simply that he was a renegade seeking to overthrow the kingdom?

Baha’is don’t believe the Bab imagined anything. We believe Moses heard God speak from the burning bush. We believe an angel of God spoke to the prophet Daniel. I have no less reason to believe in the Bab than you might believe in your prophets.

The Bab proclaimed the Oneness of the prophets of God, that He was the Promised Qa’im and His Mission was to prepare the way for One whose mission was greater than His and to enable His followers to recognise Him Whom God shall make manifest. His Mission was successful in that most Babis went on to recognise Bahá’u’lláh.

The Bab never attempted to overthrow the Persian government.

 

[Dawnofhope]

All denominations of Islam including Shias/Sunnis believe Quran as their first and foremost source of guidance. Do Bahis also believe to be Quran as their first and the foremost source of guidance?
If not, then they as per their own belief, are not a denomination of Islam/Quran/Muhammad. Right, please?

Regards

The Baha’i Faith is not a denomination or sect of Islam. It is an independent religion based on the Revelation of Bahá’u’lláh. We see the Qur’an as the authenticated respository of the Word of God, but we turn to Bahá’u’lláh’s Revelation that is a much more recent Message from God that addresses the needs of the age we currently live in.

 

[Dawnofhope]

What is the difference between the Mahdi and the Qaim as messiah alongside Jesus?

The Qa’im is a title of the Mahdi in Islamic traditions and has nothing to do with Christianity. The ‘Return of Christ’ is an analogous Messianic title in Christendom.

A more complete title is “Al-Qa’im” (The Riser). A tradition expounds that personage of the 12th Imam will reappear after death. The 12th Imam shall rise against religious and social corruption and fill the world with justice and equity. Tyranny, injustice and oppression will be conquered.

 

[paarsurrey]

The Baha’i Faith is not a denomination or sect of Islam. It is an independent religion based on the Revelation of Bahá’u’lláh. We see the Qur’an as the authenticated respository of the Word of God, but we turn to Bahá’u’lláh’s Revelation that is a much more recent Message from God that addresses the needs of the age we currently live in.

"The Baha’i Faith is not a denomination or sect of Islam. It is an independent religion"

It is OK for me.
Thanks for confirming it.
If somebody says one is a Muslim, we don't mention such a person as non-Muslim, as it is one's own discretion to tell one's religion.
The OP mentioned that Bahaism is a Shia sect/denomination, he should stand corrected now, please.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

What exactly was the historical context for the emergence of Bahai'ism from within the Shi'a sect of islam to the extent where it is considered non-Islamic and heretical to Islam according to both Sunni and Shi'a? Does it share ideas from pre-Islamic mystical Ali veneration or syncretism through contact with Hinduism?

Please read post #73 , Bahaism is not emerged from Shia sect/denomination of Islam. It is a separate/independent religion, please.

Regards

 

[Dawnofhope]

"The Baha’i Faith is not a denomination or sect of Islam. It is an independent religion"

It is OK for me.
Thanks for confirming it.
If somebody says one is a Muslim, we don't mention such a person as non-Muslim, as it is one's own discretion to tell one's religion.
The OP mentioned that Bahaism is a Shia denomination, he should stand corrected, please.

Regards

From what I can tell, the author of the OP is Jewish with limited knowledge or appreciation of Islam, Christianity, or the Baha'i Faith. Then again its good to start an OP like this to learn.

 

[duvduv]

Were the Bab and Baha'ullah originally Shia Muslims or not? Was the promised one identified by the Bab based in Shia Islam or not? I KNOW it is no longer part of Shia Islam. I was referring to its beginnings and roots.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Were the Bab and Baha'ullah originally Shia Muslims or not? Was the promised one identified by the Bab based in Shia Islam or not? I KNOW it is no longer part of Shia Islam. I was referring to its beginnings and roots.

They were both Shi’a Muslims, that is correct.

 

[duvduv]

The more I read about Baha'ism the more it seems to bear a resemblance to the LDS and Jehovah's Witnesses as well as to the Freemasons.

 

[Dawnofhope]

The more I read about Baha'ism the more it seems to bear a resemblance to the LDS and Jehovah's Witnesses as well as to the Freemasons.

Other than all three having emerged during a time of Messianic expectation during the nineteenth century there isn't really much connection between them. The Baha'i Faith emerged out of Persia in the 19th century amidst violent persecution. The LDS and JWs emerged from the USA and both reject Muhammad, Krishna, and Buddha who for Baha'i are all Manifestations of God along with Moses and Christ.

I don't know where you are getting your information from but it doesn't sound reliable. There is a lot of opposition to the Baha'i Faith on websites, especially from Islam and Christianity.

 

[duvduv]

Sure, just like there is plenty of opposition online to the Witnesses and Mormons. What I was trying to point out was that the neo-Messianic expectations of the Bahais resembles that of the Mormon restorationism of the Book of Mormon and the expectations of the Witnesses that arose in the 1840s, along with their organizational structures and affinities to Freemasonry or at least to the features of a secretive centralized authority structure involving the First Presidency of the Mormons, the Governing Body of the Witnesses and the Universal House of Justice.