BlandOatmeal
Active Member
Let me not be the last to confess, that Revelation is a difficult book to understand. The reader can see that I am struggling with the matter -- I am not trying to defend any "pet theories", simply because I do not have any.
There are many details about the "empire" prophecies i Revelation, that people obviously do not agree about. They need to be investigated, one detail at a time. At the heart of the "empire" prophecies are two particular beasts, which have been associated with world empires. They are isomorphic, each having seven heads and ten horns. They are
Rev 13
[1] And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
[2] And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
[3] And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
[4] And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
I have brought up the matter of the two "women", because they are both associated with beasts of this form: The Rev. 12 woman is opposed by a 7/10 creature that is explicitly called "the Dragon" and "Satan":
Rev 12
[3] And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads...
[7] And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
[8] And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
[9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
There is so much symbolism in these two beasts -- or, perhaps I should say, for the sake of clarity, these two "creatures" -- that it can boggle the mind, trying to keep up with it. First of all, let me deal with the idendifying marks that have already been presented in the eight short verses above:
THE LION, THE BEAR, AND THE LEOPARD.
The creatures each had SEVEN heads and TEN horns; yet one of them the "beast" that came "out of the sea", was described by only THREE animals. There is obviously, then, not a 1:1 correspondence between these animals and either the heads or the horns. Rather, I and many commentators beside me believe the purpose of these "animal" symbols is to identify the creatures of Revelation, particularly "the beast", with the beasts described in Daniel 7:
Dan 7
[3] And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
[4] The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
[5] And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
[6] After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
[7] After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
In Daniel, those animals appeared in chronological order, each one representing a kingdom, or empire, that arose after the one before it. The last "animal" of Dan 7 was the "beast" that "came out of the sea".
"THE SEA"
Rev 13
[1] και ειδον εκ της θαλασσης θηριον αναβαινον εχον κεφαλας επτα και κερατα δεκα και επι των κερατων αυτου δεκα διαδηματα και επι τας κεφαλας αυτου ονομα βλασφημιας
θαλασσης, Pronounce: thal'-as-sah
Heb Strong: H339 H3220 H3225 H4310 H8486 H8585 H8658
1) the sea
1a) used of the sea in general
1b) used specifically of the Mediterranean Sea or the Red Sea
-- http://www.godrules.net/library/strongs2b/gre2281.htm
θαλασσης is preceded by the DEFINITE article, της, indicating that a SPECIFIC "sea" is meant, namely, the Mediterranean. This identifies "the beast" with an empire coming from that direction, and the likeliest candidates are
I haven't been troubling much with the identity of the two Seven-Headed Creatures, because their identity is obvious to most commentators. I am genuinely puzzled about the identities of the women, though, and the "man child" of Rev. 12.
Concerning the two creatures, the dragon is obviously connected with the Rev. 12 woman. "The Beast" appears to be the one connected with the Rev. 17 woman, because it is described as (1) and EARTHLY power (not the Devil), and (2) like the beast that comes out of "the sea", it is one in a SUCCESSION of empires:
Rev. 17
[8] The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
[9] And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
[10] And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
[11] And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
The four beasts of Daniel 7 were (It is agreed by most commentators) as follows:Babylon (the lion)
I am still trying to figure out the identities of the women, and of the man child.
There are many details about the "empire" prophecies i Revelation, that people obviously do not agree about. They need to be investigated, one detail at a time. At the heart of the "empire" prophecies are two particular beasts, which have been associated with world empires. They are isomorphic, each having seven heads and ten horns. They are
- the Devil, called "the Dragon", and
- the "beast that comes out of the sea"
Rev 13
[1] And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
[2] And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
[3] And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
[4] And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
I have brought up the matter of the two "women", because they are both associated with beasts of this form: The Rev. 12 woman is opposed by a 7/10 creature that is explicitly called "the Dragon" and "Satan":
Rev 12
[3] And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads...
[7] And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
[8] And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
[9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
There is so much symbolism in these two beasts -- or, perhaps I should say, for the sake of clarity, these two "creatures" -- that it can boggle the mind, trying to keep up with it. First of all, let me deal with the idendifying marks that have already been presented in the eight short verses above:
THE LION, THE BEAR, AND THE LEOPARD.
The creatures each had SEVEN heads and TEN horns; yet one of them the "beast" that came "out of the sea", was described by only THREE animals. There is obviously, then, not a 1:1 correspondence between these animals and either the heads or the horns. Rather, I and many commentators beside me believe the purpose of these "animal" symbols is to identify the creatures of Revelation, particularly "the beast", with the beasts described in Daniel 7:
Dan 7
[3] And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
[4] The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
[5] And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
[6] After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
[7] After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
In Daniel, those animals appeared in chronological order, each one representing a kingdom, or empire, that arose after the one before it. The last "animal" of Dan 7 was the "beast" that "came out of the sea".
"THE SEA"
Rev 13
[1] και ειδον εκ της θαλασσης θηριον αναβαινον εχον κεφαλας επτα και κερατα δεκα και επι των κερατων αυτου δεκα διαδηματα και επι τας κεφαλας αυτου ονομα βλασφημιας
θαλασσης, Pronounce: thal'-as-sah
Heb Strong: H339 H3220 H3225 H4310 H8486 H8585 H8658
1) the sea
1a) used of the sea in general
1b) used specifically of the Mediterranean Sea or the Red Sea
-- http://www.godrules.net/library/strongs2b/gre2281.htm
θαλασσης is preceded by the DEFINITE article, της, indicating that a SPECIFIC "sea" is meant, namely, the Mediterranean. This identifies "the beast" with an empire coming from that direction, and the likeliest candidates are
- (in John's day) The Roman Empire, and
- (in our day) Western European Civilization, typified by the "Western European Union" and North America. Collectively, these major "horns" are best described as NATO. The "Union", in turn, consists of the following members:
The WEU is no longer with us, its functions having been absorbed by NATO and the EU; but its total number of "10" ought to get some brain cells firing.1. Belgium
2. France
3. Germany
4. Greece
5. Italy
6. Luxembourg
7. Netherlands
8. Portugal
9. Spain
10. United Kingdom
I haven't been troubling much with the identity of the two Seven-Headed Creatures, because their identity is obvious to most commentators. I am genuinely puzzled about the identities of the women, though, and the "man child" of Rev. 12.
Concerning the two creatures, the dragon is obviously connected with the Rev. 12 woman. "The Beast" appears to be the one connected with the Rev. 17 woman, because it is described as (1) and EARTHLY power (not the Devil), and (2) like the beast that comes out of "the sea", it is one in a SUCCESSION of empires:
Rev. 17
[8] The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
[9] And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
[10] And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
[11] And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
The four beasts of Daniel 7 were (It is agreed by most commentators) as follows:Babylon (the lion)
- Persia (the bear)
- Greece (the leopard)
- Rome (the seven-headed, ten-horned beast)
I am still trying to figure out the identities of the women, and of the man child.
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