Ending The Shutdown Is More Important Than Who Wins

[sayak83]

The title states my position.
The cost of in dispute is less than 1 month's cost of the shutdown.
Both sides are costing us dearly for what appears to be political posturing.
Anyone else agree?

Democrats should hold to the perfectly reasonable position to have a time bound negotiation for a border security bill while the govt. is running. Under no condition should they bend an inch to Trump's ridiculous demands that either his bill is accepted or govt. stays shut. The president is not given the duty to creating bills by fiat like a dictator.

 

[Mindmaster]

The title states my position.
The cost of in dispute is less than 1 month's cost of the shutdown.
Both sides are costing us dearly for what appears to be political posturing.
Anyone else agree?

I think Trump will get his wall either:

1) By having them accept the compromise. Upside, they get something they want. He's been giving them carrots, but no nibbles.

2) Declaring national emergency, and the funding the wall from defense budget. Which should be easier, since Trump has stopping giving away all of our money to foreign aid and has been cutting back on the the whole "Team America World Police" act. Of course, this is the stick, not the carrot. But, in this scenario, they get jack and squat. Moreover, he can just decide to be a dick to them from then on by vetoing every single bill they submit to him and lose nothing, since there is no partnership to "destroy".

Option 1 is still more favorable for them, whether they are smart enough to figure that out or not is often a question I ask myself frequently.

If the Democrats force Trump into option #2, they will lose 2020. The reason being is the vast majority of Democrats want various elected officials to work together, and even they, at this point, know about the carrots. There is no way they're going to spin this as Trump's fault, and Trump still gains points keeping his election promises no matter how he gets there with his base -- even if the actions are seemingly extreme, no one will fault him for taking the nuclear option if he's backed into a corner.

 

[Revoltingest]

Speak for yourself please.
It's American.
Lots of peoples relatives died to make that so.

I'm improving the language.

 

[Revoltingest]

You find "Merrykin" offensive? How about something a little more "fun," like "Merkin?"

Ew.
But I'm warming up to it.

 

[Vinayaka]

Good Mexican restaurants & grocery stores as I recall.

It's north of Canuckistan too. We don't have much of a little Mexico here. Little a lot of other places.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's north of Canuckistan too. We dpn't have much of a little Mexico here. Little a lot of other places.

I've found good variety in Toronto.
One of the best meals I ever had was at a Tibetan restaurant there.
It was so because of the oddly outrageously great service & generosity
(for me, but not my dining companion). I thought I'd been mistaken
for some well loved celebrity. (I don't look like one.)

 

[Brickjectivity]

The title states my position.
The cost of in dispute is less than 1 month's cost of the shutdown.
Both sides are costing us dearly for what appears to be political posturing.
Anyone else agree?

I have a cold heart tonight. Let the shutdown continue forever. Let those not getting paid find other jobs. Everybody wins.

 

[TheresOnlyNow]

I'm improving the language.

No you're not.
America is America and American is American.
And that's it.
Our haters corrupt the language. And the worst sort hyphenate citizenship. (Chinese-American, Mexican-American, etc...) If one is a citizen they're an American. Their former country of allegiance does not hold primacy in that regard. They're an American. Period.

"Any man who carries a hyphen about with him carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic whenever he gets ready." Woodrow Wilson

 

[sayak83]

I think Trump will get his wall either:

1) By having them accept the compromise. Upside, they get something they want. He's been giving them carrots, but no nibbles.

2) Declaring national emergency, and the funding the wall from defense budget. Which should be easier, since Trump has stopping giving away all of our money to foreign aid and has been cutting back on the the whole "Team America World Police" act. Of course, this is the stick, not the carrot. But, in this scenario, they get jack and squat. Moreover, he can just decide to be a dick to them from then on by vetoing every single bill they submit to him and lose nothing, since there is no partnership to "destroy".

Option 1 is still more favorable for them, whether they are smart enough to figure that out or not is often a question I ask myself frequently.

If the Democrats force Trump into option #2, they will lose 2020. The reason being is the vast majority of Democrats want various elected officials to work together, and even they, at this point, know about the carrots. There is no way they're going to spin this as Trump's fault, and Trump still gains points keeping his election promises no matter how he gets there with his base -- even if the actions are seemingly extreme, no one will fault him for taking the nuclear option if he's backed into a corner.

Democrats should never compromise. Open the govt. first before any negotiation. That's it.

 

[Revoltingest]

I have a cold heart tonight. Let the shutdown continue forever. Let those not getting paid find other jobs. Everybody wins.

Much as it would be nice to have less government,
this is a rather random & inefficient way to cut back.

 

[Revoltingest]

No you're not.
America is America and American is American.
And that's it.
Our haters corrupt the language.

It's an old joke here.
No one is adopting my terminology.

 

[Vinayaka]

I've found good variety in Toronto.
One of the best meals I ever had was at a Tibetan restaurant there.
It was so because of the oddly outrageously great service & generosity
(for me, but not my dining companion). I thought I'd been mistaken
for some well loved celebrity. (I don't look like one.)

I have to go back. We didn't have enough time. But we went to a place called Dosarama in Little Sri Lanka, otherwise known as Scarborough. Lunch buffet was 8.99 Canuck bucks. About 20 different curries, fresh, first of the day. That is the beauty of larger ethnic enclaves ... GREAT eats.

Yes the Nepalese and Tibetans are hospitable. I've met Nepalese, back in the temple gardening days. Did you know they go nuts over the ends of pumpkin vines ... when it's fresh and still growing fast? ... a delicacy for those guys. I never knew you could eat the vines until then. I've tried them now though, just because of that.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Much as it would be nice to have less government,
this is a rather random & inefficient way to cut back.

Its not random. This happens every year.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Democrats should never compromise. Open the govt. first before any negotiation. That's it.

If the Democrats would compromise on abortion I think the Republicans would lose their trump card.

 

[Watchmen]

Very telling that leftistis have voted that Dems should dig in at all costs but no one has said the same about Trump. I think this reveals which side is being unreasonable.

 

[Revoltingest]

Its not random. This happens every year.

The randomness is in how cuts would be made not based upon what should
stay & what should go, but rather on funding source & immediate necessity.
Still, the timing is rather random too.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Very telling that leftistis have voted that Dems should dig in at all costs but no one has said the same about Trump. I think this reveals which side is being unreasonable.

The problem is that both sides are cold and logical not that they are unreasonable.

 

[Mindmaster]

Democrats should never compromise. Open the govt. first before any negotiation. That's it.

The longer the shutdown goes, the more it helps Trump. So while I think he'd be willing to end it in a hot minute, he's not going to if he doesn't have to. The only people screwed by this are Democrats, since the bulk of the government workforce is largely Democratic union folks. Anyway, the Dems can continue refusing to negotiate, he'll just declare an emergency and get the cash anyway. Meanwhile, they're sitting there probably still trying to figure out why they failed to stop the wall.

On the wall, Trump doesn't have to give an inch. Whether they can figure that out or not, and get something of what they want, who knows.

 

[Watchmen]

The problem is that both sides are cold and logical not that they are unreasonable.

I think it was unreasonable for Dems to reject Trump’s offer on Saturday BEFORE he made his announcement.

 

[Revoltingest]

The problem is that both sides are cold and logical not that they are unreasonable.

I see the opposite....hot tempered & irrational.