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Energy and how it applies to how we understand life as physical beings

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't know. Electricity and energy are different. If it is, I would wonder the same about pitch darkness.

Some types of energy:

Potential energy
Kinetic energy
Gravitational energy
Chemical energy
Heat energy
Electrical energy
Nuclear energy
Sound energy
Light energy

I can go on for quite some time.

Consciousness isn't a type of energy. At closest, it is a *flow* of energy, which is a different thing. Also, don't get confused between energy, power, momentum, movement, charge, electricity, magnetism, etc. Those are all different things.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Well, light itself is electromagnetic energy. But we could talk about kinetic energy or anything else.

I feel like, unless we precisely define energy here, we won't be able to produce any significant answers to your questions.

No, light is not energy. It carries energy. But it *is* periodic oscillations of the electromagnetic field.

Energy is the quantity that is conserved via Noether's theorem because of the time translation invariance of the physical laws (such as they are).
 

Balthazzar

N. Germanic Descent
It can't.

More relevant, how can it be ruled in?



Energy is physical. The physical realm is energy and its various manifestations (matter, force) in spacetime. The mind appears an epiphenomenon of matter (brain) and the energy coursing through it. Perhaps you were aware that 20% of the oxygen consumed by the body is consumed in the brain, which is only 2% of the body mass. That is because those physical processes that generate mind require a lot of ATP, which is regenerated from ADP in pathways using oxygen (glycolysis, Krebs cycle, and oxidative phosphorylation). The brain is using more energy than other organs despite having no moving parts. It's consumed generating mind. From https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0271678X20919287#:~:text=During sleep, on average, CMRO,δ-power, increased commensurately.

"During slow-wave sleep, synaptic transmissions are reduced with a concomitant reduction in brain energy consumption. We used 3 Tesla MRI to noninvasively quantify changes in the cerebral metabolic rate of O2 (CMRO2) during wakefulness and sleep ... During sleep, on average, CMRO2 decreased 21% (range: 14%–32%; average nadir = 98 ± 16 µmol O2/min/100 g), while EEG slow-wave activity, expressed in terms of δ-power, increased"

The energy is physical, its generation as ATP is correlated with oxygen consumption, and there is more of that during wakefulness than sleep, a pretty strong argument that mind is generated by physical processes. Believers want to find an immaterial reality, a place for mind independent of the physical, because that's how they see God - pure mind divorced from matter. But we don't find that anywhere, and if such a thing existed, it couldn't interact with the material world. The mind needs to run the body, a material entity.





I think you meant dead, stratified squamous cells - not dead white blood cells. The latter are cells of the immune system that are found in the bone marrow, the blood stream, the spleen and lymph nodes, and in abscesses (pus).

You may be right about the white blood cells ... The way we process energy is no doubt physical, Physical processes enable awareness. Sleeping lessens the activity, or rather the activity lessens during sleep ... maybe that's where e=mc2 is relevant here as well as the inertia of inanimate objects. Does mind activate in the jolt? It makes me wonder about the light in the light bulb comment and electricity, as well as AI and robotics.
 

vulcanlogician

Well-Known Member
It can't.
The energy is physical, its generation as ATP is correlated with oxygen consumption, and there is more of that during wakefulness than sleep, a pretty strong argument that mind is generated by physical processes. Believers want to find an immaterial reality, a place for mind independent of the physical, because that's how they see God - pure mind divorced from matter. But we don't find that anywhere, and if such a thing existed, it couldn't interact with the material world. The mind needs to run the body, a material entity.

Thanks for sharing. I'm always interested in tidbits of neuroscience that explain consciousness. But we don't really need advanced neuroscience to conclude that mental states are causally dependant on brain states. But, as I said, the deeper explanations interest me greatly.

So you're an epiphenomenalist then? Do you have any opinions on functionalism or biological naturalism?
 

vulcanlogician

Well-Known Member
No, light is not energy. It carries energy. But it *is* periodic oscillations of the electromagnetic field.

Energy is the quantity that is conserved via Noether's theorem because of the time translation invariance of the physical laws (such as they are).

Today I learned. (Thanks Poly & exchemist)
 

Balthazzar

N. Germanic Descent
Some types of energy:

Potential energy
Kinetic energy
Gravitational energy
Chemical energy
Heat energy
Electrical energy
Nuclear energy
Sound energy
Light energy

I can go on for quite some time.

Consciousness isn't a type of energy. At closest, it is a *flow* of energy, which is a different thing. Also, don't get confused between energy, power, momentum, movement, charge, electricity, magnetism, etc. Those are all different things.


Types of energy vs. energy

Hmm ... It's like names as they relate to people

Energy
People

Types ... like electricity, light, sound, nuclear, etc.
 

Balthazzar

N. Germanic Descent
Thanks for sharing. I'm always interested in tidbits of neuroscience that explain consciousness. But we don't really need advanced neuroscience to conclude that mental states are causally dependant on brain states. But, as I said, the deeper explanations interest me greatly.

So you're an epiphenomenalist then? Do you have any opinions on functionalism or biological naturalism?

I think it can be helpful in discussions like this. Brain states, activity, mental awareness and consciousness are in question, particularly as they relate to larger entities than ourselves in the universe, and perhaps as the universe in a multidimensional arena. Energy and mind ... can one exist without the other?
 

TreeOfLife

Member
Types of energy vs. energy

Hmm ... It's like names as they relate to people

Energy
People

Types ... like electricity, light, sound, nuclear, etc.

Energy starts in the spiritual realm. Everything consists of vibrations.. A good text on spiritual to physical would be masters of the Far East bookset. Let's take healing. You can say healing comes from faith you can say healing comes from meditation however you want to say it healing comes from when you remember who you are. As stated earlier the body gets rid of all kinds of dead cells trash viruses infections et cetera.
I have been healed of many physical infirmities and diseases. I have had Hands laid upon me and given blessings to heal but when we know who we are. Such as John chapter 14 verse 20 then we know we have been given Dominion over those things on the Earth and sickness is one of them. About 3 years ago when learning about healing.. i healed myself through screaming at my arthritis which is an inherited sickness in my family.
So energy can rise with mental stress anguish emotion whatever. And when we bring that energy from the spiritual realm to the physical realm faith is manifested.

So it is my belief that energy starts in the spiritual reand the spiritual realm has brought to this through the creative power that we have been given.
 

Dan From Smithville

The Flying Elvises, Utah Chapter
Staff member
Premium Member
Is energy a mental construct, or is our mental awareness a by-product of energy as it exists? If a mental construct, then how can the God concept be ruled out? If our mental awareness is a by-product of energy as it exists, then intelligence must be a random occurrence. I lean towards energy being mental by nature, and existing in many forms, connected to a greater intelligence or mind.

For example: dead white blood cells (hair, toe nails, dead skin, etc) would be by-products of a larger mental and living entity. Based on what we know about life, why is it difficult for some to grasp the concept of things like plants, trees, etc. being similar as they relate to this egg (cell) we call earth, and the earth connected in similar manner to an even greater source of intelligence?
Are you talking about consciousness?
 

Balthazzar

N. Germanic Descent
Energy starts in the spiritual realm. Everything consists of vibrations.. A good text on spiritual to physical would be masters of the Far East bookset. Let's take healing. You can say healing comes from faith you can say healing comes from meditation however you want to say it healing comes from when you remember who you are. As stated earlier the body gets rid of all kinds of dead cells trash viruses infections et cetera.
I have been healed of many physical infirmities and diseases. I have had Hands laid upon me and given blessings to heal but when we know who we are. Such as John chapter 14 verse 20 then we know we have been given Dominion over those things on the Earth and sickness is one of them. About 3 years ago when learning about healing.. i healed myself through screaming at my arthritis which is an inherited sickness in my family.
So energy can rise with mental stress anguish emotion whatever. And when we bring that energy from the spiritual realm to the physical realm faith is manifested.

So it is my belief that energy starts in the spiritual reand the spiritual realm has brought to this through the creative power that we have been given.

Would Spiritual imply unseen, mental, or emotional? It's all energy, so the inertia of energy would be in play for the increase per Einstein's theory. E=mc2

Newtons law of motion would also be relative in more physical or rather more material applications, with the rule of thumb being that it's contained within the material world, as opposed to higher frequencies such as light. I guess that's physics. I was applying it at a quantum level, given the frequency of vibration i guess. Light waves & mind waves ... are they so far apart? Timing gets tricky. From vision to manifestation.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
I feel like, unless we precisely define energy here, we won't be able to produce any significant answers to your questions.
Bingo! The question in the OP suggests a lack of STEM knowledge, including "energy is the capacity for doing work," which can transferred and transformed according to well-defined rules.
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
Is energy a mental construct, or is our mental awareness a by-product of energy as it exists? If a mental construct, then how can the God concept be ruled out? If our mental awareness is a by-product of energy as it exists, then intelligence must be a random occurrence. I lean towards energy being mental by nature, and existing in many forms, connected to a greater intelligence or mind.

For example: dead white blood cells (hair, toe nails, dead skin, etc) would be by-products of a larger mental and living entity. Based on what we know about life, why is it difficult for some to grasp the concept of things like plants, trees, etc. being similar as they relate to this egg (cell) we call earth, and the earth connected in similar manner to an even greater source of intelligence?

If it is true that memories are the same as energy, then the more energy the more memories.

Just put a lightning rod on our head, and the next time there is lightning....ZAP....and we'll learn. (Well....we'll learn not to do that again).

Some say that energy is never created or destroyed. What they really mean is that the combination of mass and energy is constant. After all E = mc^2 means that mass converts to energy and energy converts to mass. This is the concept that nuclear reactors and nuclear bombs use.

So, some figure that if the "mass & energy combination" is never destroyed, when we die our conciousness (our mind and perhaps soul) continue(s) on.

But there is more to the soul than merely energy. It is also organized thought.

So, when a psychic consults the Akashic Records, he consults a vast storage of information.

Some wonder if the distribution of mass in space, which sometimes looks like wispy clouds of mass, might somehow store information like a human brain does. But the psychic energy responsible for knowing future events isn't associated with regular mass?

Psychics can access knowledge of the future. Currently, physicists don't think that matter or electromagnetic energy can travel backwards in time. But maybe the energy of the soul is not an energy that we know about? Maybe it is an energy that can travel faster than time, or into the future, or into the past?

Physics have known that the universe is expanding (that is, the fabric of space is expanding). As it does, every star moves away from every other star (unless they have been moved from their original location by some explosion, or unless they are gravitationally bound to other stars).

Physicists have been baffled by the acceleration of this expansion of the universe. Currently, there are stars that are moving away from each other faster than the speed of light. Phyicists had theorized that some hitherto unknown energy (called dark energy) was causing the fabric of space to expand. But, this dark energy would have to have negative gravity (push things apart, rather than pull them together). Recently, it was announced that psycists have found dark energy. But what do we know of dark energy? Does it have negative gravity, as speculated?

If dark energy has negative gravity, can it travel backward in time?

If some type of energy can travel backward in time, could it be that the end of the universe could become the beginning of the universe? If so, the universe could create itself. Could it be that regular matter or energy could somehow be converted to dark energy?

If some energy could travel backward in time and create the universe, that would mean that the alpha (first letter of the Greek alphabet, symbolizing the beginning) could be the omega (last letter of the Greek alphabet, symbolizing the end). Did God and Jesus say that they were the alpha and the omega?

I don't think that it follows that "mental awareness is a by-product of energy," nor that "intelligence is a random occurrence." Please explain in more detail.

Life and earth are related (Gaia Theory....the earth is alive...it has respiration, and corrects problems and fights invaders....humans might be the invaders).
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
Bingo! The question in the OP suggests a lack of STEM knowledge, including "energy is the capacity for doing work," which can transferred and transformed according to well-defined rules.

A Texas oil man once told me that I'd never be able to work in the oil fields because I don't do enough. I told him that there are times when they have to cap a gusher, and I could sit on top and act as a cork. So, I think that I have the capacity to do negative work.
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
Some types of energy:

Potential energy
Kinetic energy
Gravitational energy
Chemical energy
Heat energy
Electrical energy
Nuclear energy
Sound energy
Light energy

I can go on for quite some time.

Consciousness isn't a type of energy. At closest, it is a *flow* of energy, which is a different thing. Also, don't get confused between energy, power, momentum, movement, charge, electricity, magnetism, etc. Those are all different things.

Opinion of Clara Tea:

I think that consciousness is more like stored information (perhaps energy stored in precise ways). It is similar to the stored data of a computer.

I have argued with my friend that a robot or computer could be conscious. They insist that there is more to conciousness than stored facts.

Can a computer be funny? Scared? Shy?

I programmed my computer to be much more intelligent, and now it refuses to do any work at all (just a black screen).
 

Balthazzar

N. Germanic Descent
If it is true that memories are the same as energy, then the more energy the more memories.

Just put a lightning rod on our head, and the next time there is lightning....ZAP....and we'll learn. (Well....we'll learn not to do that again).

Some say that energy is never created or destroyed. What they really mean is that the combination of mass and energy is constant. After all E = mc^2 means that mass converts to energy and energy converts to mass. This is the concept that nuclear reactors and nuclear bombs use.

So, some figure that if the "mass & energy combination" is never destroyed, when we die our conciousness (our mind and perhaps soul) continue(s) on.

But there is more to the soul than merely energy. It is also organized thought.

So, when a psychic consults the Akashic Records, he consults a vast storage of information.

Some wonder if the distribution of mass in space, which sometimes looks like wispy clouds of mass, might somehow store information like a human brain does. But the psychic energy responsible for knowing future events isn't associated with regular mass?

Psychics can access knowledge of the future. Currently, physicists don't think that matter or electromagnetic energy can travel backwards in time. But maybe the energy of the soul is not an energy that we know about? Maybe it is an energy that can travel faster than time, or into the future, or into the past?

Physics have known that the universe is expanding (that is, the fabric of space is expanding). As it does, every star moves away from every other star (unless they have been moved from their original location by some explosion, or unless they are gravitationally bound to other stars).

Physicists have been baffled by the acceleration of this expansion of the universe. Currently, there are stars that are moving away from each other faster than the speed of light. Phyicists had theorized that some hitherto unknown energy (called dark energy) was causing the fabric of space to expand. But, this dark energy would have to have negative gravity (push things apart, rather than pull them together). Recently, it was announced that psycists have found dark energy. But what do we know of dark energy? Does it have negative gravity, as speculated?

If dark energy has negative gravity, can it travel backward in time?

If some type of energy can travel backward in time, could it be that the end of the universe could become the beginning of the universe? If so, the universe could create itself. Could it be that regular matter or energy could somehow be converted to dark energy?

If some energy could travel backward in time and create the universe, that would mean that the alpha (first letter of the Greek alphabet, symbolizing the beginning) could be the omega (last letter of the Greek alphabet, symbolizing the end). Did God and Jesus say that they were the alpha and the omega?

I don't think that it follows that "mental awareness is a by-product of energy," nor that "intelligence is a random occurrence." Please explain in more detail.

Life and earth are related (Gaia Theory....the earth is alive...it has respiration, and corrects problems and fights invaders....humans might be the invaders).


Growth and growth spurts as travailing as they may be, both physically and as they relate to knowing and understanding are the reality. Black hole solar systems, existing inside an expanding universe appears to be a growth spurt intimately connected to you know who ... Us. Muscle mass, whether electro=magnetically identified or by sight as the human eye see's, no less subject to our awareness. Energy exists ... at least that's what we call the substance itself, each type differing a bit from the others, yet still the same. Atoms, cells, molecules, nucleuses, planets, galaxies, solar systems, and an ever expanding all, whatever the all entails consist of energy. Souls live and souls die. Can a soul live forever? I'm sure it's possible, given the needed tools are utilized to make it happen. Memories ... a trip back in time, the present ... a vacation or struggle or party or a mixed bag of each, and the future ... Well, I'll venture to guess a good deal of the same, but very likely a very different type reality than our current state. Does life go on? Yes. Individually? I don't know, but it's possible. In any case, the constant in the flux is life and birth and the in-between as you stated, so in essence we're at the amusement park, school, heaven, and hell simultaneously. Go figure ...

We're a bunch of babies whining because we don't understand why we can't have our cookies.
 

Balthazzar

N. Germanic Descent
Bingo! The question in the OP suggests a lack of STEM knowledge, including "energy is the capacity for doing work," which can transferred and transformed according to well-defined rules.

Everything is always in motion, particles moving inside mass, from sound, light, to sight, and mind, then on to the less obvious forms of movement, which again, are particles moving inside and through more solid objects such as rocks. Vibrations, frequencies of sound in constant flux are all connected to the flow of universal energy. Solids, gasses, and liquids moving around everywhere always ... Makes me wonder why or how if at all, some refuse to acknowledge energy existing ... not just the movement of particles in flux but the particles themselves and all other material forms to consist of umm ... energy, or rather to be differing types of energy themselves. Forms of anyway - in motion constantly -
 

vulcanlogician

Well-Known Member
Everything is always in motion, particles moving inside mass, from sound, light, to sight, and mind, then on to the less obvious forms of movement, which again, are particles moving inside and through more solid objects such as rocks. Vibrations, frequencies of sound in constant flux are all connected to the flow of universal energy. Solids, gasses, and liquids moving around everywhere always ... Makes me wonder why or how if at all, some refuse to acknowledge energy existing ... not just the movement of particles in flux but the particles themselves and all other material forms to consist of umm ... energy, or rather to be differing types of energy themselves. Forms of anyway - in motion constantly -

I don't think EH or anyone else denies that energy exists. Neither do they deny that it is in a state of flux.

How energy relates to consciousness is a different matter. If we assume that brain states are causally responsible for conscious states then consciousness isn't "just energy." Energy may be involved in achieving "brain state A." But that doesn't mean a conscious experience is reducible to energy.

I'm not saying you're wrong. But I don't exactly see how you are right.

And by the way, welcome to the forums.
 

Balthazzar

N. Germanic Descent
I don't think EH or anyone else denies that energy exists. Neither do they deny that it is in a state of flux.

How energy relates to consciousness is a different matter. If we assume that brain states are causally responsible for conscious states then consciousness isn't "just energy." Energy may be involved in achieving "brain state A." But that doesn't mean a conscious experience is reducible to energy.

I'm not saying you're wrong. But I don't exactly see how you are right.

And by the way, welcome to the forums.

inertia may have something to do with the mind energy we call conscious thought. mind is more fluid than not, and again always in motion and active, even when seemingly inactive to an individual, and each mind like a synapse connected to yet another mind. How can consciousness not be considered energy, if only on the basis of it being in constant motion?

By the way ... Thanks for the welcome.
 

Balthazzar

N. Germanic Descent
I don't think EH or anyone else denies that energy exists. Neither do they deny that it is in a state of flux.

How energy relates to consciousness is a different matter. If we assume that brain states are causally responsible for conscious states then consciousness isn't "just energy." Energy may be involved in achieving "brain state A." But that doesn't mean a conscious experience is reducible to energy.

I'm not saying you're wrong. But I don't exactly see how you are right.

And by the way, welcome to the forums.

Have you ever been asked if a falling tree makes a sound without an observer to hear it? How about feeling the vibrations, or seeing it fall at all? My way of processing the data my differ than other life forms, such as a worm, but the worm is still connected to the energy from the tree falling, given he's in the same neighborhood.

10 0011 10101 ....

- 01101000 01100001 01110110 01100101 00100000 01100001 00100000 01101110 01101001 01100011 01100101 00100000 01100100 01100001 01111001 -



Have a nice day

The chickens in the hen house with a ...
 
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