Enlighten me please? Questions about homosexuality.

[jeager106]

Boy, I guess that put me in my place.

I hope so. It's overdue.

 

[Koldo]

I think I follow, but to make sure...

There's a physiologic reaction that can't be controlled, so yeah, I'd have to make myself "boing!". Though if I were innately and inherently attracted to women, why would I get that reaction from a guy? That's where the choice argument fails.

I wonder how many people on the 'homosexuality is a choice' crowd will openly admit they can make themselves 'boing!!!' when a guy gets close to them. Since none of them is likely to admit something like that, I suppose that settles the debate. That's what I was referring to.

 

[Jainarayan]

Boy, I guess that put me in my place.

Nah, you're incorrigible.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

If gays are hardwired would any "god" hate them for that????????
This recent SCOTUS ruling means almost nothing to me.
The world didn't stop going round now did it? This ruling does help same sex couples in many
legal ways. I doubt it has much emotional impact on two people who are loving partners anyway.
I am not anti-gay nor homophobic. Or a sexist.
I am, however curious. Thus the prime question about hardwired.

Researchers found male fish with female brains concluding too much estrogen in the water being a factor.
We do Not know all that is going on today.
As far as God hating gays, rather it is the sin of fornication that is wrong in God's eyes.
The English word fornication comes from the Greek word porneia.
Jesus did Not use the word adultery as scriptural grounds for divorce but fornication/porneia - Matthew 19:9
That is because porneia is more comprehensive in meaning than adultery.
Porneia would even include having sex with an animal as wrong.

Marriage as defined in Scripture is only between a man and a woman. - Genesis 2:24; Matthew 19:4-6
Sex outside of scriptural marriage is considered as fornication.
So, God does Not hate gays, but that all people are to refrain from fornication.
We are nearing the soon coming ' time of separation ' of Matthew 25:31,32 before Jesus ushers in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill. That ' peace ' will mean mankind will gain the perfect health of having a sound heart, mind and body as God originally purposed for mankind starting in Eden before father Adam's downfall.

 

[Jainarayan]

Researchers found male fish with female brains concluding too much estrogen in the water being a factor.
We do Not know all that is going on today.
As far as God hating gays, rather it is the sin of fornication that is wrong in God's eyes.
The English word fornication comes from the Greek word porneia.
Jesus did Not use the word adultery as scriptural grounds for divorce but fornication/porneia - Matthew 19:9
That is because porneia is more comprehensive in meaning than adultery.
Porneia would even include having sex with an animal as wrong.

Marriage as defined in Scripture is only between a man and a woman. - Genesis 2:24; Matthew 19:4-6
Sex outside of scriptural marriage is considered as fornication.
So, God does Not hate gays, but that all people are to refrain from fornication.
We are nearing the soon coming ' time of separation ' of Matthew 25:31,32 before Jesus ushers in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill. That ' peace ' will mean mankind will gain the perfect health of having a sound heart, mind and body as God originally purposed for mankind starting in Eden before father Adam's downfall.

You're still missing the point that US civil law doesn't care what scripture says. Why is this such a hard concept for people to grasp?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

You're still missing the point that US civil law doesn't care what scripture says. Why is this such a hard concept for people to grasp?

No, not missing the point because God allows ' Caesar ' his civil law to do as he wishes - Romans chapter 13
Christians are Not to interfere with ' Caesar ' decisions. Christians do Not dictate to ' Caesar'.
The dividing line is that ' Caesar ' is placed in a relative position to God's absolute position.
' Caesar ' answers to God.
When there is a contradiction, then Christians are to obey God as Ruler rather than men - Acts of the Apostles 5:29
Not meaning Christians are to try to force their beliefs on others, but merely inform others of their beliefs.

 

[Skwim]

The English word fornication comes from the Greek word porneia.

I don't know if you make up crap like this as you go, or if you're simply parroting what you hear in Sunday school, but here's the real skizzy.

fornication (n.)

c. 1300, from Old French fornicacion "fornication, lewdness; prostitution; idolatry" (12c.), from Late Latin fornicationem (nominative fornicatio), noun of action from past participle stem of fornicari "to fornicate," from Latin fornix (genitive fornicis) "brothel" (Juvenal, Horace), originally "arch, vaulted chamber, a vaulted opening, a covered way," probably an extension, based on appearance, from a source akin to fornus "brick oven of arched or domed shape" (see furnace). Strictly, "voluntary sex between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman;" extended in the Bible to adultery. The sense extension in Latin is perhaps because Roman prostitutes commonly solicited from under the arches of certain buildings.
source
​

You're welcome.

 

[Jainarayan]

No, not missing the point because God allows ' Caesar ' his civil law to do as he wishes - Romans chapter 13
Christians are Not to interfere with ' Caesar ' decisions. Christians do Not dictate to ' Caesar'.
The dividing line is that ' Caesar ' is placed in a relative position to God's absolute position.
' Caesar ' answers to God.
When there is a contradiction, then Christians are to obey God as Ruler rather than men - Acts of the Apostles 5:29
Not meaning Christians are to try to force their beliefs on others, but merely inform others of their beliefs.

Yes, we're well aware of how Christians feel about "informing" others. In Caesar's country, which this is, Caesar trumps God; God takes a back seat to Caesar.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I don't know if you make up crap like this as you go, or if you're simply parroting what you hear in Sunday school, but here's the real skizzy.

fornication (n.)

c. 1300, from Old French fornicacion "fornication, lewdness; prostitution; idolatry" (12c.), from Late Latin fornicationem (nominative fornicatio), noun of action from past participle stem of fornicari "to fornicate," from Latin fornix (genitive fornicis) "brothel" (Juvenal, Horace), originally "arch, vaulted chamber, a vaulted opening, a covered way," probably an extension, based on appearance, from a source akin to fornus "brick oven of arched or domed shape" (see furnace). Strictly, "voluntary sex between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman;" extended in the Bible to adultery. The sense extension in Latin is perhaps because Roman prostitutes commonly solicited from under the arches of certain buildings.
source​

You're welcome.

The Bible was Not originally written in French or Latin but in Hebrew and Greek.

The Greek word ' porneia ' was translated in the KJV Bible in English as fornication.
Porneia is even where also we get the English word for porn or pornography.

Please notice Jesus absolutely did NOT use the word adultery at Matthew 5:32 and Matthew 19:9 as scriptural grounds for divorce but the word fornication (porneia) as scriptural grounds for divorce.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yes, we're well aware of how Christians feel about "informing" others. In Caesar's country, which this is, Caesar trumps God; God takes a back seat to Caesar.

Absolutely right, a back seat, ' Caesar ' has thrown the Bible behind him.
However, No one, nor anything, can stop the international spreading about the ' good news of God's kingdom government ' in the hands of Christ Jesus who will be the one to usher in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill. - Matthew 24:14

 

[Skwim]

The Bible was Not originally written in French or Latin but in Hebrew and Greek.

So what? Your claim was that, "The English word fornication comes from the Greek word porneia."

The Greek word ' porneia ' was translated in the KJV Bible in English as fornication.

So what? Your claim was that, "The English word "fornication" comes from the Greek word porneia."

Porneia is even where also we get the English word for porn or pornography.

So what? Your claim was that, "The English word fornication comes from the Greek word porneia."

Good grief man, lets stay on track here.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So what? Your claim was that, "The English word fornication comes from the Greek word porneia."
So what? Your claim was that, "The English word "fornication" comes from the Greek word porneia."
So what? Your claim was that, "The English word fornication comes from the Greek word porneia."
Good grief man, lets stay on track here.

Yes stay on track, the Greek track, not the French nor Latin track and not the English track.
What is the definition from the Greek of the word Porneia ?

 

[Skwim]

Yes stay on track, the Greek track, not the French nor Latin track and not the English track.
What is the definition from the Greek of the word Porneia ?

All we need here is evidence that my link stating:

"fornication (n.)
c. 1300, from Old French fornicacion "fornication, lewdness; prostitution; idolatry" (12c.), from Late Latin fornicationem (nominative fornicatio), noun of action from past participle stem of fornicari "to fornicate," from Latin fornix (genitive fornicis) "brothel" (Juvenal, Horace), originally "arch, vaulted chamber, a vaulted opening, a covered way," probably an extension, based on appearance, from a source akin to fornus "brick oven of arched or domed shape" (see furnace). Strictly, "voluntary sex between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman;" extended in the Bible to adultery. The sense extension in Latin is perhaps because Roman prostitutes commonly solicited from under the arches of certain buildings."
​

is wrong. Short of that your repeated claim is absolutely meaningless. So what you got?

 

[psychoslice]

Why is this question on a 'religious' discussion forum.

If you ask me I would say that all sexual activity outside marriage is immoral and damaging to society according to Abrahamic religious teaching.
In that case there must be some 'fault' genetically, psychologically or socially that has occurred to create homosexual desires.

We correct other genetic, social or psychological 'faults'. Why not sexual ones??

Where the hell do you get that from, the bible ? lol.

 

[Pegg]

I should just leave this alone but I'm not going to. Just blame it on the devil.
Are homosexuals hardwired to be what they are?
If you have read my many other posts you've seen that I had friendships with gay men
and a few gay women.
I'm not inclined to act out sexually with a gay person. Fact is to me such a practice is
unappealing. ( I toned that down a bit)
That said why is it that many members here say another member is "homophobic" if a remark
is made that does not outright support gay people?
Phobia is a fear of.................but of what? A fear of gay people or a fear that the one holding
the fear is afraid they themselves might like a gay experience?
Could it be that deep rooted desire for a homosexual experience might lead to the disgusting
violence I've seen inflicted upon gay men?
Hummmm????????
So if I don't openly support the Rainbow movement am I homophobic?
Or perhaps I just don't give a fat rats patoot?
I really do not give a fat rats patoot. I've had gay friends, for all I know I might still have gay friends
that have not "come out". I have gay relatives, cousins in fact. At family reunions NO ONE says
anything bad to them. We treat them like our cousins for crying out loud!
I'll go ahead and confess that I have a grandson that is at least bi but I love him all the same.
Is that wrong? Hell no it ain't wrong.
Why would I not love my precious 19 year old grandson? What does SEX have a friggin' thing
to do with my love of my family.
If gays are hardwired would any "god" hate them for that????????
This recent SCOTUS ruling means almost nothing to me.
The world didn't stop going round now did it? This ruling does help same sex couples in many
legal ways. I doubt it has much emotional impact on two people who are loving partners anyway.
I am not anti-gay nor homophobic. Or a sexist.
I am, however curious. Thus the prime question about hardwired.

It seems to be that calling someone 'homophobic' has become a catchcry of anyone who does not 'support' homosexuality.

Its lost its meaning with regard to 'fear'... the term has become an insult rather then a word with any real meaning.

 

[Skwim]

dd

It seems to be that calling someone 'homophobic' has become a catchcry of anyone who does not 'support' homosexuality.

Its lost its meaning with regard to 'fear'... the term has become an insult rather then a word with any real meaning.

From post #4

It can be more than just "fear of."

pho·bi·a
ˈfōbēə/
noun
noun: phobia; plural noun: phobias​

1. 1. an extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to something.
      "he had a phobia about being under water"
      synonyms: fear, irrational fear, obsessive fear, dread, horror, terror, hatred, loathing, detestation, aversion, antipathy, revulsion;More
      complex, neurosis;
      informalthing, hang-up

 

[Willamena]

I should just leave this alone but I'm not going to. Just blame it on the devil.
Are homosexuals hardwired to be what they are?

Yup. They are hard-wired to be just like the rest of us in loving another.

If gays are hardwired would any "god" hate them for that????????
This recent SCOTUS ruling means almost nothing to me.
The world didn't stop going round now did it? This ruling does help same sex couples in many
legal ways. I doubt it has much emotional impact on two people who are loving partners anyway.
I am not anti-gay nor homophobic. Or a sexist.
I am, however curious. Thus the prime question about hardwired.

In my opinion, the source of all doesn't/cannot fault anything.

 

[SomeRandom]

I should just leave this alone but I'm not going to. Just blame it on the devil.
Are homosexuals hardwired to be what they are?

Yeah, pretty much, mate. Even if it was a choice, so what? Like aren't you Americans always boasting about your freedom? Why would Americans then denounce something as innocuous as a consensual adult relationship even if it was a choice? Do you like live in a theocracy that I'm unaware of? Like seriously I don't get it. Help me out, here. So what if being gay is a choice? So is religion, I have yet to see people rally against that simply because it's a choice.

If you have read my many other posts you've seen that I had friendships with gay men
and a few gay women.

Not attacking you specifically, but a little friendly advice. The whole "I have gay friends" thing is not always seen as a friendly remark. Rather a justification for prejudice and bigotry. Much like people who were all like "Some of my best friends are colored/half castes. I just don't like to share the same school with them is all." Not saying you are justifying anything, but the connotations are there.

That said why is it that many members here say another member is "homophobic" if a remark
is made that does not outright support gay people?

Because there's fanatics on both sides, I'm afraid.

Phobia is a fear of.................but of what? A fear of gay people or a fear that the one holding
the fear is afraid they themselves might like a gay experience?

I really don't understand this argument at all. It rests solely on the premise that words have to be taken literally and match up to what their descendents meant. That is simply untrue. First of all, we have what's called "vernacular." These are words that take on another meaning to people of a specific region. Example, in England the word "Bender" is common slang for a homosexual. So when the movie Avatar the Last Air Bender premiered there was a lot of childish s******ing on the part of the audience. So does that mean we are to call out our British cousins on their usage of the word "bender?"Of course not, because slang exists.
Secondly words change their meanings all the damned time. The word "awful" for example used to mean full of awe. Now it essentially means the exact opposite. The word "homophobia" is both based on a predecessor which is different to it's modern definition and largely slang based. So the argument that it has to be taken literally falls flat, as does appeals to descendents of that word.
This is the definition of homophobia.
Homophobia encompasses a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality or people who are identified or perceived as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT).It can be expressed as antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, or hatred, may be based on irrational fear, and is sometimes related to religious beliefs.

Homophobia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why do we call it homophobia? Think of it like this.
Someone who is prejudiced based on sex is called a "sexist."
Someone who is prejudiced based on race is called a "racist."

But someone who is prejudiced based on sexual orientation would sound rather ridiculous if they were called a "homosexualist" or a "sexual orientationist."

 

[Pegg]

Yes, we're well aware of how Christians feel about "informing" others. In Caesar's country, which this is, Caesar trumps God; God takes a back seat to Caesar.

Not in the hearts of those who submit to God. Thats why we refuse to 'accept' as normal all forms of sexual misconduct.

People are free to behave as they wish...and we are free to behave as we wish too. We do not wish to view such matters as 'normal' or 'acceptable' to us which is why we dont participate in them.

But if you want to, then thats fine. Its your right to do so. Its not worth start a war over.

 

[jeager106]

Yeah, pretty much, mate. Even if it was a choice, so what? Like aren't you Americans always boasting about your freedom? Why would Americans then denounce something as innocuous as a consensual adult relationship even if it was a choice? Do you like live in a theocracy that I'm unaware of? Like seriously I don't get it. Help me out, here. So what if being gay is a choice? So is religion, I have yet to see people rally against that simply because it's a choice.



Not attacking you specifically, but a little friendly advice. The whole "I have gay friends" thing is not always seen as a friendly remark. Rather a justification for prejudice and bigotry. Much like people who were all like "Some of my best friends are colored/half castes. I just don't like to share the same school with them is all." Not saying you are justifying anything, but the connotations are there.



Because there's fanatics on both sides, I'm afraid.



I really don't understand this argument at all. It rests solely on the premise that words have to be taken literally and match up to what their descendents meant. That is simply untrue. First of all, we have what's called "vernacular." These are words that take on another meaning to people of a specific region. Example, in England the word "Bender" is common slang for a homosexual. So when the movie Avatar the Last Air Bender premiered there was a lot of childish s******ing on the part of the audience. So does that mean we are to call out our British cousins on their usage of the word "bender?"Of course not, because slang exists.
Secondly words change their meanings all the damned time. The word "awful" for example used to mean full of awe. Now it essentially means the exact opposite. The word "homophobia" is both based on a predecessor which is different to it's modern definition and largely slang based. So the argument that it has to be taken literally falls flat, as does appeals to descendents of that word.
This is the definition of homophobia.
Homophobia encompasses a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality or people who are identified or perceived as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT).It can be expressed as antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, or hatred, may be based on irrational fear, and is sometimes related to religious beliefs.

Homophobia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why do we call it homophobia? Think of it like this.
Someone who is prejudiced based on sex is called a "sexist."
Someone who is prejudiced based on race is called a "racist."

But someone who is prejudiced based on sexual orientation would sound rather ridiculous if they were called a "homosexualist" or a "sexual orientationist."

Well you live in Oz which explains a lot of your obvious anti-American sentiments.
Never mind the U.S. saved your little island paradise from Japanese Imperialism.
A fact many of you want to forget.
But it's o.k. 'cause the rest of the world knows the facts.
You in Oz are experts on everything not concerning you directly.
Don't take that as a personal insult, just a fact of world history.
Thanks for the unneeded definitions. I really un-appreciate that.
The "friendly advice" wasn't at all warranted. ...Or requested.
And refrain from calling me "mate". We are not, in any respect of the word.