Enlightenment... are you enlighten ?

[Onkara]

Yes you have your point of view..just remember though, Bob has nothing to do with your enlightenment. Enlightenment is a reward for watching yourself in action. Enlightenment will be given to you just the same as Bob when the time is right, you cannot acquire it..you can chase it all you like,but you cannot summon it. It's beyond your volition and will.

Well, this is it. Would you agree then that enlightenment entails knowing that you have no volition or will yourself?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

There is nothing to gain from enlightenment, except the realization of what is already there. Therefore, you gain nothing from enlightenment.

 

[joea]

Well, this is it. Would you agree then that enlightenment entails knowing that you have no volition or will yourself?

Is volition and will needed ?..you are seeking enlightenment when you say this.Don't seek it and don't chase after it.

 

[Onkara]

Is volition and will needed ?..you are seeking enlightenment when you say this.Don't seek it and don't chase after it.

Thanks, no seeking, just a question based on reflection

 

[Rainbow Mage]

See this thread is a good example, the way we're all discussing enlightenment and trying to grasp it, of why some schools of Buddhism teach not everybody can gain enlightenment. Some don't have the mind it takes. The Buddha was a person with an unusual sort of mind, the stories all say so. Even as a child he saw things it takes many of us years to see.

 

[Onkara]

Yes, I agree Yosef, it is a good example of various understandings and the minds which express that understanding. What I found most interesting is that even some of the most praised Gurus differ in their agreement. I think therefore it is best to stay with one's path, be it Buddhism, Vedanta, Tao, etc or at least try to know how they differ.

 

[joea]

Yes, I agree Yosef, it is a good example of various understandings and the minds which express that understanding. What I found most interesting is that even some of the most praised Gurus differ in their agreement. I think therefore it is best to stay with one's path, be it Buddhism, Vedanta, Tao, etc or at least try to know how they differ.

And I agree Onkarah. As I said before we all have our own interpretations, but they all lead to the same correct answers.

 

[zenzero]

Friend onkarah,

Yes, I agree Yosef, it is a good example of various understandings and the minds which express that understanding. What I found most interesting is that even some of the most praised Gurus differ in their agreement. I think therefore it is best to stay with one's path, be it Buddhism, Vedanta, Tao, etc or at least try to know how they differ.

Hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
could you highlight where they differ???
am sure they all merged to the same source.
Differences are only in their path/way which as mentioned is always unique to every individual as per his own unique karma.
Love & rgds

 

[Rainbow Mage]

See I don't see how the dharma really differs in any of the dharmic religions, even Confucianism and Sikhism. I don't see where the dharma really differs, the different religions are merely different takes on it.

 

[zenzero]

Friend yosef,

See I don't see how the dharma really differs in any of the dharmic religions, even Confucianism and Sikhism. I don't see where the dharma really differs, the different religions are merely different takes on it.

Yes, NOW you have hit the nail on its head!
That is exactly the case,
Besides why restrict to dharmic religions even Abrahamic religions are leading humans on the same reality; but on a different path / way / religion.

Love & rgds

 

[Onkara]

Friend onkarah,



Hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
could you highlight where they differ???
am sure they all merged to the same source.
Differences are only in their path/way which as mentioned is always unique to every individual as per his own unique karma.
Love & rgds

Hi Zenzero
Yes, for a quick example within Vedanta school itself, Sri Sankara goes with the teaching the moksha can occur during life where as Sri Madhva argues that moksha only occurs when one leaves the body i.e. at death. It is interesting side topic also if one takes Moksha as enlightenment.

Sri Sankara says that consciousness is the basis or foundation as consciousness is non-dual. My limited understanding of Nagarjuna of Mahayana Buddhism is that the foundation is Sunyata (void).

Not to mention the role "God" may play on the way to get there.

You may say that these are all idea, thoughts, and you are still right. If there is a you and me

Best wishes, Onkarah.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I wasn't making the statement that schools in Buddhism teach not everybody can gain enlightment to differentiate between Buddhism and other dharmic religions. I was pointing out that maybe not everyone can gain enlightenment, and even if they can, maybe not in their current life due to their karma.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Onkarah,

Hi Zenzero
Yes, for a quick example within Vedanta school itself, Sri Sankara goes with the teaching the moksha can occur during life where as Sri Madhva argues that moksha only occurs when one leaves the body i.e. at death. It is interesting side topic also if one takes Moksha as enlightenment.

Sri Sankara says that consciousness is the basis or foundation as consciousness is non-dual. My limited understanding of Nagarjuna of Mahayana Buddhism is that the foundation is Sunyata (void).

Not to mention the role "God" may play on the way to get there.

You may say that these are all idea, thoughts, and you are still right. If there is a you and me

Again *semantics*!
When one has merged the body is meaningless be it present or not; be it *you* or *me*.
Rgds *god* its is just a label for an understanding.
Love & rgds

 

[zenzero]

Friend yosef,

I wasn't making the statement that schools in Buddhism teach not everybody can gain enlightment to differentiate between Buddhism and other dharmic religions. I was pointing out that maybe not everyone can gain enlightenment, and even if they can, maybe not in their current life due to their karma.

Enlightenment is HERE-NOW! irrespective of all past karma IF one is *CONSCIOUS*.
Otherwise through evolution and karma one is already on the way in lives to come.

Love & rgds

 

[Mr Cheese]

Friend Onkarah,


Again *semantics*!
When one has merged the body is meaningless be it present or not; be it *you* or *me*.
Rgds *god* its is just a label for an understanding.
Love & rgds

all things are just a label...

Wordiness and intellection--
The more with them the further astray we go;
Away therefore with wordiness and intellection,
And there is no place where we cannot pass freely.

--on believing in mind (Seng-t'san)

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Otherwise through evolution and karma one is already on the way in lives to come.

See I think that's what's already happening with a lot of people, they are coming closer and closer to enlightment through evolution. It's just a much slower process.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

See I'm a Theistic Buddhist, I tend to think like a Hindu. As humanity evolves and progresses we cannot help but move closer and closer to enlightenment, because God is working out it's ultimate will through everything.

 

[Storm]

As I said earlier in my post, my thread was for discussion not debating. I don't pretend to know everything. I don't pretend to know all the answers to enlightenment and neither does anyone else..it is an individual thing.

I'm not criticizing, just trying to nail down your question.

Anyway, I shy away from anyone who calls themself Enlightened. That's a label other people apply to you.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I'm not criticizing, just trying to nail down your question.

Anyway, I shy away from anyone who calls themself Enlightened. That's a label other people apply to you.

Exactly

 

[Apollonius Zagreus]

I'm not criticizing, just trying to nail down your question.

Anyway, I shy away from anyone who calls themself Enlightened. That's a label other people apply to you.

Siddhartha was still Siddhartha.