Enlightenment?

[saralynn]

Don't sweat it. Anybody who is sure it does exist isn't going to achieve it.

I'm not SURE it doesn't exist, although, in my personal life, I have never met an enlightened person. I have to rely on books about enlightened people, some of whom seem to be quite high strung and others, frankly, who seem deluded. I am BIG into the Catholic mystics of yore, but, let's face it, most of them were a trifle bizarre. St Francis is my fave, but kissing lepers is beyond my comprehension. It would even worry me to kiss someone with a rash.

 

[crowfeather]

Each religious path a rung in the ladder to the stars.

 

[YmirGF]

I am an aging hippie, so I have spent many years rowing, which is sorta embarrassing because, by this time, I always thought I would be wise and wonderful and people would call me Mother Saralynn and I would give them profound advice about spiritual mountain climbing. I would also like it if my eyes twinkled merrily.

Hehe. I wanted you to know that I loved this part. Love it. Yep, I know that feeling... ... but my eyes do sparkle... and I am also a veritable basket of bliss... I let others decide if I am wise. I'm just the fool.

"Committed to free will" means that you recognize you have it and use it to transcend all the emotional hoopla in your life. You identify with the "observer" within yourself rather than a slave who follows where instincts and emotions command you. To me, free will strikes me as "potential" until it becomes a "reality" in one's life, which takes time and commitment. I know some people who seem to have no free will at all. Of course, there is the problem of assuming you are identifying with the observer when in reality you are looking at yourself in a psychological mirror.

Good grief, no wonder I feel weary.

Hahaha.... I do like your sense of things. The OP wasn't quite as clear. I have to be coy here as no one can give you that first hand view of enlightenment. That said, I've had my own brushes with reality that seem to be permanent (after several decades and counting) but would highly recommend to simplify things. Just be.... if you are what you are, right here, right now, so-called enlightenment will take care of itself as you waft into the mystic. Just let yourself... BE!

My approach is holistic. I don't cut off one area of being to promote other aspects of being and have come to an agreement with my ego that it is loved, respected and it will never be forgotten. Happy in its own "safe space", it doesn't mind receding into the background in order for "larger" aspect of identity to come into the foreground and look out into the world through its eyes. It's a win-win thingy.

In your terms, I alter my focus to "observer" mode in the wink of an eye and back again... effortlessly... It's only when the ego is happy and feels safe and is not seen as some horrid creature blocking the sunlight of enlightenment that living the enlightened existence can come into the realm of realization. I would conjecture that the enlightened mind is the mind that is in harmony with all of its constituent aspects. Being aware of that takes time...

 

[Twilight Hue]

I am very interested in mysticism, which is why I describe myself as a Catholic-Buddhist-Sufi-Jewish-Hindu Quaker. The core of the mystical experience in many different religions involves peace and joy etc. I mean, someone who has a revelation of "God", in whatever form it takes. never concludes that God is Strife, Hatred, Cruelty and Deceit.

I have always longed for a mystical encounter with that Holy "Something" that others have encountered but it seems not to be my fate, so I have stumbled along in my quest for Enlightenment, hoping (yep, and praying) that my quest is not a hope, a dream and an illusion.

My religious experiences have always been ambiguous. Moments of grace, which might be coincidence, and fleeting feelings of "oneness"

I am beginning to think the key to mysticism is the commitment to Free Will, even if it is only called grit and determination. However, despite my efforts, I am still hounded by my baser impulses, even though I don't act on them. Sometimes I wonder if Enlightenment really exists.

Maybe you should stop running for the carrot of enlightenment at the end of the stick.

Even Hakuin's monkey wouldn't let go of the branch.

 

[saralynn]

What you describe seems generally like the experience of many people. There is no magic to the path - it takes time and perseverance. All I can say for sure is that it is a totally worthwhile struggle for me.

And for me the 'moments' and 'fleeting feelings' give me a tiny glimpse of what I'm working toward and help me resolve to continue.

What you describe seems generally like the experience of many people. There is no magic to the path - it takes time and perseverance. All I can say for sure is that it is a totally worthwhile struggle for me.

And for me the 'moments' and 'fleeting feelings' give me a tiny glimpse of what I'm working toward and help me resolve to continue.

Yes, I enjoy reviewing the fleeting moments of unity with the Universe that I have experienced and the serendipitous events that might not be serendipitous at all, but a form of grace, which not only implies there is a "Cosmic Intelligence," but one that is personally involved with me and, presumably, fond.

And, like you, that is why I continue. It puzzles me why some people are not as obsessed as I am about finding "ultimate meaning", but 'tis true. Or not. I am probably being a snob. Pondering the imponderable (a starry night, for instance) must be universal. owever, the other day, I was taking a woman to an AL-Anon Meeting and I said, "It's a twelve step program. Do you believe in God or a Higher Power of some sort?" "I have never thought about it," she replied. Now THAT is bizarre.

 

[YmirGF]

Yes, I enjoy reviewing the fleeting moments of unity with the Universe that I have experienced and the serendipitous events that might not be serendipitous at all, but a form of grace, which not only implies there is a "Cosmic Intelligence," but one that is personally involved with me and, presumably, fond.

And, like you, that is why I continue. It puzzles me why some people are not as obsessed as I am about finding "ultimate meaning", but 'tis true. Or not. I am probably being a snob. Pondering the imponderable (a starry night, for instance) must be universal. owever, the other day, I was taking a woman to an AL-Anon Meeting and I said, "It's a twelve step program. Do you believe in God or a Higher Power of some sort?" "I have never thought about it," she replied. Now THAT is bizarre.

Then you have dimwits like me who have gone beyond god and no longer feel a need for god(s) of any kind....

 

[Fool]

I am very interested in mysticism, which is why I describe myself as a Catholic-Buddhist-Sufi-Jewish-Hindu Quaker. The core of the mystical experience in many different religions involves peace and joy etc. I mean, someone who has a revelation of "God", in whatever form it takes. never concludes that God is Strife, Hatred, Cruelty and Deceit.

I have always longed for a mystical encounter with that Holy "Something" that others have encountered but it seems not to be my fate, so I have stumbled along in my quest for Enlightenment, hoping (yep, and praying) that my quest is not a hope, a dream and an illusion.

My religious experiences have always been ambiguous. Moments of grace, which might be coincidence, and fleeting feelings of "oneness"

I am beginning to think the key to mysticism is the commitment to Free Will, even if it is only called grit and determination. However, despite my efforts, I am still hounded by my baser impulses, even though I don't act on them. Sometimes I wonder if Enlightenment really exists.

you won't find it. it will find you.


The Moment - Margaret Atwood

 

[saralynn]

Maybe you should stop running for the carrot of enlightenment at the end of the stick.

Even Hakuin's monkey wouldn't let go of the branch.

i don't know who Hakuin is (and, yes, I shall look it up), but I know that Michael Jackson's monkey would climb up on the roof of the house in Neverland and refuse to come down. Who can blame him/her?

What you describe seems generally like the experience of many people. There is no magic to the path - it takes time and perseverance. All I can say for sure is that it is a totally worthwhile struggle for me.

And for me the 'moments' and 'fleeting feelings' give me a tiny glimpse of what I'm working toward and help me resolve to continue.

I can't seem to NOT climb the ladder. If I didn't, life would seem totally meaningless. I argue with atheists about this because the ones whom I debate insist that the world is meaningful even if it is not MEANINGFUL. I conclude differently. Temperament? Who knows?

 

[saralynn]

Then you have dimwits like me who have gone beyond god and no longer feel a need for god(s) of any kind....

I think it may be too late for me to be a dimwit like you. It would take a lifetime of un-learning, so I will just hope there is reincarnation.

 

[saralynn]

Each religious path a rung in the ladder to the stars.

Especially if you are a Rastafarian, a religion which is starting to interest me.

 

[saralynn]

@saralynn ,

I think all the religions and approaches you mentioned can work. I think we each are a little different in inherent nature so different approaches will work better for different people. I personally think Jnana Yoga is what works best for me. I think maybe you need to look at your nature and decide what path really worked best for you in the past and make that your path and then have confidence in yourself and the path.

If asked, I would say that I am a follower of jnana yoga, in the sense that I have read and read and read various scriptures throughout my life. Okay that's not quite true. I read books ABOUT the Scriptures, rather than the scriptures themselves. This may explain my lack of progress. I wish there was a type of yoga for lazy people. As a person who loves reading about Catholic saints, I am drawn to Bhakti yoga. This is difficult for me, though, because the only unconditional love I have is for my dog. My dog is old and smelly and arthritic and has bad breath, but I carry him around from room and brush his teeth. I am not sure that I would do this for my husband.

 

[saralynn]

It does. It is real. If that is what you seek, you are highly likely to find it, although it may take a very long time.
A tip for you: while desire for it may be necessary to your search, it is desire that will prevent you finding it.
There will come a perfect moment, when you are the closest you will come, and in that moment, you must put aside your desire.
As you smile, shrug, and walk away from it, it will gobble you up, whole.

Good point. My new desire shall be to have no desire.

 

[saralynn]

Thank you, everyone. I appreciated all your replies. Certainly seems like a diverse group of interesting people here. I have a feeling that I am gonna like this joint.

 

[Twilight Hue]

i don't know who Hakuin is

Hakuin Ekaku was a Rinzai Zen teacher who was noted for his poem,


THE MONKEY IS REACHING

The monkey is reaching

For the moon in the water.

Until death overtakes him

He’ll never give up.

If he’d let go the branch and

Disappear in the deep pool,

The whole world would shine

With dazzling pureness.

 

[George-ananda]

If asked, I would say that I am a follower of jnana yoga, in the sense that I have read and read and read various scriptures throughout my life. Okay that's not quite true. I read books ABOUT the Scriptures, rather than the scriptures themselves.

The way I see jnana yoga is that it has little to do with studying scriptures. You just need to know the basics. It is an understanding that this is all One consciousness God/Brahman and we are in the illusion of separateness. And our goal is to live in this bliss of our expanding Oneness experience. The path to doing this is to program your thinking to this new way of viewing the universe and this looks like brotherly love and peace with a detachment from all the temporary events of our material existence. Well, that's a start of an explanation I hope. There is many ways to present things.

 

[saralynn]

Hakuin Ekaku was a Rinzai Zen teacher who was noted for his poem,


THE MONKEY IS REACHING

The monkey is reaching

For the moon in the water.

Until death overtakes him

He’ll never give up.

If he’d let go the branch and

Disappear in the deep pool,

The whole world would shine

With dazzling pureness.

I'd better let go of the branch because death is peering over my left shoulder. If I could only stop thinking about stopping thinking! Now I am thinking about stopping thinking about stopping thinking. No wonder I am so exhausted.

 

[Geoff-Allen]

Interesting thread!

There aint many truly enlightened beings on this planet at the moment so don't sweat it ...

Here's an interview I found from a quick search of Osho enlightenment love -

The Love in your Heart is the Source for Enlightenment - About - Humaniversity

Wishing everyone ALL the best!

Namaste.

 

[saralynn]

The way I see jnana yoga is that it has little to do with studying scriptures. You just need to know the basics. It is an understanding that this is all One consciousness God/Brahman and we are in the illusion of separateness. And our goal is to live in this bliss of our expanding Oneness experience. The path to doing this is to program your thinking to this new way of viewing the universe and this looks like brotherly love and peace with a detachment from all the temporary events of our material existence. Well, that's a start of an explanation I hope. There is many ways to present things.

Actually, I have been doing that lately. The "one consciousness" thing. i was watching my cat die a few months ago, which sounds pretty morbid, but she was very sick and I was holding her little paw and weeping melodramatically. It took her a long time for her to die, but then, it took one second for her to die. She was THERE, with life in her eyes, and then she was not there. Then I remembered the same thing happened when my mom died. She was gone in the blink of an eye. Lately, I have been looking at the life in people's eyes. It really is amazing. I guess it's the same life that is in trees, but they are without consciousness.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I'd better let go of the branch because death is peering over my left shoulder. If I could only stop thinking about stopping thinking! Now I am thinking about stopping thinking about stopping thinking. No wonder I am so exhausted.

I think it revolves around matters of clinging and non duality. Hanging off the branch while reaching for something else.

Maybe enlightenment, like the monkey, is the moon in the water your reaching for.

 

[saralynn]

My guess is that part of the problem is your "Catholic-Buddhist-Sufi-Jewish-Hindu Quaker" shotgun approach. It's rather difficult to cross a body of water in several boats. Also what exactly do you mean by a commitment to Free Will?

Y'know, YmirGF, I think you may be right about my brain being a bit addled because of my religious identity, which is always in flux. You said it more politely, but it amounts to the same thing. Lately, the Catholic in me has emerged and she is a real harpy. Nag nag nag. Guilt guilt guilt. The Buddhist is patient with her and chats with her about detachment, but she is a persistent self-obsessed woman.

Now, I don't want to be self-indulgent (revise that: I don't want to APPEAR self-indulgent), but my thoughts about the dubious reality of Enlightenment emerged because of a stressful relationship I am having with a woman who irritates me beyond reason. I am trying to respond to her with loving-kindness and I DO, in my behavior, but inside my brain, I fester. She is certainly not an ill-intentioned person and tries to be sensitive, but she is sooooo needy and obtuse and pretentious that it makes me cringe...at both what she says and how I respond. She used to be quite wealthy and spoiled, but now she is having serious financial problems and I am trying to help her. I give her food and money and I gave her all my gift certificates that I had received at Christmas. I am not bragging about this because I did these kind deeds unwillingly. I ORDERED myself to do them. But, alas, I can't order my emotions to do what I want and my dislike for her is getting more and more intense. The other day, when I gave her apples, she told me she only eats organic apples. I felt like biting her.

So, these are the strategies I have been using. 1. I imagine her as a child 2. I imagine her being tortured by Isis. 3. I imagine myself on my deathbed, thinking about her. 4. I try to BE her. 5.I imagine ourselves as characters in a novel, and I try to think like I would want my character in the novel to think. 6. i watch my angry self from a distance. I am good at doing this when I am alone, but fail miserably when I interact with her. 7. I imagine Jesus or Ramakrishna or Pope Francis by my side cheering me on. 8 I imagine Jesus or Ramakrishna or Pope Francis looking at me with a disappointed expression 9. I imagine that I am battling a demon. 10. I think about how much I am learning about myself as a result of her presence in my life. The "manure for Enlightenment" idea. 11. I try not to expect her to act differently. 12. I take brisk walks and mutter to myself.

Thus far, none of these strategies has worked. I have advanced from minor irritation to loathing. I WANT my gift certificates back!

So, does anyone have any suggestions? Should we, as Mother Teresa used to say, "Give until it hurts"? Is it foolish to act in way which reflects a level of spirituality which you have not yet attained? Or is it better to "Fake it until you make it."?

In actuality, I am not as frustrated with her as I am frustrated with myself. I wanna be enlightened....NOW!