McBell
Unbound
I find this to be most ironic seeing as you are the one with the most posts in this thread in "violation" of rule four...
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Enough Time for Evolution?
- Thread starter Shermana
- Start date
Life is caused is contrasting faith which just is. No one can cause faith or real love. But life is caused by actions and reactions. Life caused. Faith not caused. Btw I did say I was off topic.
It's not the first time that it turns out someone is just trying to vent out some metaphysical wisdom after so many pages of pretending to "debate".
Shermana
Heretic
Once again, you are embarassing yourself, because everything I've posted has been in response to someone else's argument, whether it's been on topic or not. Stop embarassing yourself. For your own good.
You have yet to actually contribute anything, but apparently are content to act like your bug on your signature, acting as an annoyance and little else. Oh wait, you did try to contribute something with your comparison to the guaranteed-result lottery, that was at least some effort, so I'll give you that.
Maybe you'd like to actually discuss the OP instead of injecting more pollution into the thread?
WHAT? Oh brother. Keep up, will ya?
I have a propensity to answer questions when asked. Don't you hate it when people won't?
I started a list of all my questions gone unanswered but i lost the darn thing.
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Agnostic75
Well-Known Member
Shermana said:
Ok, that is fine.
Shermana said:
You keep arguing for something that I am not arguing against. Dr. Stuart could be right. If he is right, so what, what would that affect?
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Ouroboros
Coincidentia oppositorum
And is God alive? If he/she/it is, then by same reason God's life must be caused, unless God is dead.
God doesn't have life. God is life. Faith and love is not caused.
McBell
Unbound
yet another rule four violating post.
You just can't help yourself, can you?
Sculelos
Active Member
You misunderstand God. God is not alive. Nor is God Dead. God simply is and is not. Logic does not apply to God because God is logic. Logic has no cause and needs no cause. God needs no cause because God simply is and is not.
Agnostic75
Well-Known Member
Message to Shermana: You have claimed that there is not enough time for naturalistic evolution to occur. Assuming that you are right, that would not mean that there is not enough time for theistic evolution to occur, only that there would not be enough time for naturalistic evolution to occur. So what you are really arguing against is naturalism, not evolution. Naturalism addresses the mechanisms for common descent, but evolution does not address the mechanism for common descent.
I have no objections to you claiming that there is not enough time for naturalistic evolution to occur, but I would have some objections if you claimed that common descent is not true.
Assuming that naturalism is not true, I would still not accept any religious book, and neither would most skeptics, and the billions of non-Christian who are already theists would still reject Christianity. So, the possible number of people in the world that you have a chance to influence is very, very small.
I have no objections to you claiming that there is not enough time for naturalistic evolution to occur, but I would have some objections if you claimed that common descent is not true.
Assuming that naturalism is not true, I would still not accept any religious book, and neither would most skeptics, and the billions of non-Christian who are already theists would still reject Christianity. So, the possible number of people in the world that you have a chance to influence is very, very small.
Agnostic75
Well-Known Member
Edit: Deletion of unnecessary post.
outhouse
Atheistically
Shermana
Heretic
Sure, for the record, for this thread, I am not necessarily arguing against Theistic evolution or even Common Descent, even if I personally don't hold to those.
This is 100% against Naturalism, non-theistic naturalism.
Did I imply otherwise? If so, I retract.
Agnostic75
Well-Known Member
Shermana said:
Thanks for clearing that up. There is no need for me to make any more posts in this thread. On second thought, I have just one question, do you consider the acceptance of common descent to be a hindrance to Christians? If not, great.
Sculelos
Active Member
Well taking a sensible approach I'd probably say.
Zebra's, Horses, Camels, Lamas, Donkeys and Mules probably have the same ancestor.
Giraffes and Horses might be possibly related.
https://www.google.com/search?um=1&...urce=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=dUT3UZOPO4SWiQLopYHYBQ
Wolfs, Dogs and Coyotes probably have the same ancestor.
Some Breeds of Ape and Monkey can crossbreed.
Antelope and Deer can crossbreed.
There is probably a lot more that I just don't know about but it's safe to say that the biblical 'Kinds' of each animal covers a fairly wide umbrella.
Shermana
Heretic
My sentiments exactly, hence my belief in Epigenetics and Microevolution but not Macroevolution.
Shermana
Heretic
Not really. It's not THAT important of an issue. I have my reasons for opposing it mainly because it can play too much into Naturalism besides my own personal disbelief in it based on my interpretation of the evidence. My only problem with Theistic Evolutionists is when we're discussing the specifics of Theology such as whether the Genesis accounts are true or "Fairy tales"/Myths, besides just the pursuit of what I believe is truth.
And I apologize for being brash, I was just tired of having so many side tracking issues that were about generalities regarding the evolution debate.
Agnostic75
Well-Known Member
Shermana said:
Thank you, very good, so if you believe that theistic evolutionists are true Christians, everything is fine.
Edit: Oh no, I just remembered another possibility, what if some aliens helped evolution develop much faster than it would have developed on its own? I am not trying to be a pest. I would just like to know what your opinion is about that.
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Shermana
Heretic
Yeah, if they believe in the concepts of Theism and at least what I consider TRUE Christianity in regards to how they live their lives, everything else is basically, in comparison at least, similar to debating how many angels can dance on a pin relatively speaking in terms of Theology, though still not completely because there are still some interpretation issues involved that could reflect how to read what Jesus said.
Now in regards to my personal beliefs, I could naturally believe that my god (or "supreme alien overlord" if you'd prefer) would have the ability to turn anything into anything. In fact, humans can already do this in the starting stages, of modifying DNA into something else. I just believe the evidence indicates that all things were formed "as is" at least from initial "kinds", like one particular type of Great Cat, or Wolf-dog, or Camel-Llama, or Horse-donkey or whatnot that eventually "speciated" into different forms, and the "Aliens" may well have sped up that process but I don't think it would be necessary and could have occured over a few thousands of years at most.