Eternal grovelling or nonexistence?

[Hospitaller]

Better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven.

I'm pretty sure you don't rule in Hell, but hey, that's just me...

 

[CarlinKnew]

There is no hypothetical for that question. If you hear a voice in your head telling you to kill yourself or anyone else it is not God.

I didn't mention anything about voices. I'll try one more time, nice and slow, if you can't get it this time I'm done with you:

HYPOTHETICALLY: If...you...for...some...reason...believed...that...God...wanted...you...to...kill...yourself...would...you...do...it?

Wrong. They can ask for forgiveness yes. But does not mean they will be forgiven. God could still damn them even if they do ask for forgiveness. See you have no knowledge of how Christianity works.

OK, there's a CHANCE that they'll be forgiven.

Wrong again. Islam does not teach that. You know nothing of Islam either it seems. You really need to study up on Islam and Christianity if you intend on attacking them. You are losing credibility with every post you make.

I'm not saying all Muslims want to kill infidels, most of them don't, but parts of the Qur'an can be interpreted in a way that encourage such behavior. Those passages are being used as justification for suicide bombings.

 

[Enoch07]

HYPOTHETICALLY: If...you...for...some...reason...believed...that...God...wanted...you...to...kill...yourself...would...you...do...it?

There is nothing that would ever convince me God wanted me to kill myself or anyone else. How many different ways must it be said?

I'm not saying all Muslims want to kill infidels, most of them don't, but parts of the Qur'an can be interpreted in a way that encourage such behavior. Those passages are being used as justification for suicide bombings.

Yes and like I said earlier anyone that would interpret some scripture in the Qur'an telling them that suicide bombing innocent people is ok is twisted and evil. In that case yet again it is the individuals who have evil in their hearts that are looking for a reason for murder to be justified. You already admitted earlier that you agreed it was evil people and not the religion that is causing trouble. Yet here you are again contradicting yourself still trying to blame it on religion again.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

well, in order for something to bring someone any kind of positive feelings, generally it has to mean something to them. it has to make sense and relate purposefully to the person in connection with how they see the world, themselves, and the act of worship.

in other words, they have to have an understanding of the reality behind who or what they are worshiping, or what they are worshiping about.

I do. That is why I will have no part of it. None. Ever.

I simply WILL NOT debase myself for the sake of some divine and inflated ego.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

I'm pretty sure you don't rule in Hell, but hey, that's just me...

Umm. Curious statement. Not only does the post fail to recognize the quote but it fails to grasp the import. One can only wonder at such ignorance. Do you fanatics EVER read anything but your book of fables?

However just to belabor the obvious and restate well known: The line is from Milton’s Paradise Lost, Book One. Satan has just been thrown out of heaven and finds himself and his followers in Hell. It is not a pleasant place. But – he is free.


Here at least
We shall be free; th' Almighty hath not built
Here for his envy, will not drive us hence: [ 260 ]
Here we may reign secure, and in my choice
To reign is worth ambition though in Hell:
Better to reign in Hell, then serve in Heav'n.

It is this steely defiance this refusal to yield even to superior force that has made Milton’s Satan somewhat sympatric to the modern reader. And it is the point that was being made in my original post. For some of us freedom is more important than comfort. A heavenly existence of endless submission and self-effacing toadying done to some feed some divine and insatiable ego is an odious existence. We will have none of it. And if hell is the result then so be it. We make that choice with full knowledge and no regret.

We would truly rather be free in hell than a god’s servant in heaven.

 

[Hospitaller]

How do you know that you will be free in Hell?
Oh, and im sorry, i never read that book, I didnt realize that was supposedely Satan talking.

Excuse my ignorance

By the way, your font is really hard to read man.

 

[CarlinKnew]

There is nothing that would ever convince me God wanted me to kill myself or anyone else. How many different ways must it be said?

Hahaha wow. I realize there is nothing that would ever convince you "...". I understood you the first two times. That's why I'm speaking hypothetically. If there was some way to convince you "...". OK I'm done with that, because you clearly can't handle it.

Yes and like I said earlier anyone that would interpret some scripture in the Qur'an telling them that suicide bombing innocent people is ok is twisted and evil. In that case yet again it is the individuals who have evil in their hearts that are looking for a reason for murder to be justified. You already admitted earlier that you agreed it was evil people and not the religion that is causing trouble. Yet here you are again contradicting yourself still trying to blame it on religion again.

Certain passages very explicitly encourage Muslims to wipe out members of other faiths.

Sura (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah"

Sura (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

Sura (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

Sura (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority"

I said earlier that evil people use religion to convince good people to do evil deeds, and I stand by that.

 

[Enoch07]

Certain passages very explicitly encourage Muslims to wipe out members of other faiths.

Sura (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah"

Sura (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

Sura (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

Sura (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority"

I said earlier that evil people use religion to convince good people to do evil deeds, and I stand by that.

We would have to have someone of the Islam faith to confirm or deny these passages. They could be taken out of context like you atheist do almost every single time you quote a verse. Would do it myself but I do not have a copy of the Qur'on and I am of course not a Muslim.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

"Oh, and im sorry, i never read that book, I didnt realize that was supposedely Satan talking."

That's obvious.

FYI, it is generally considered the greatest epic poem in the English Language. Milton wrote it (dictated it really. Like Homer he was blind.) "to justify the ways of God to man."

He intended to make Satan an odious creature and to 17th readers he was. But modern readers have seen in Satan a more sympathetic, even noble, character.

Some observers have seen in this a subtle but real change in how religion and mythology in general has lost some of its hold on our culture.

A small indication of the general decline of "faith" as an intellectual force and the ascendance of reason.

With that thought in mind I can understand - if not excuse - your ignorance.

 

[Storm]

Prsoeytizing is strictly forbidden on this forum.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

Prsoeytizing is strictly forbidden on this forum.

You don't really think that matters to him do you?
After all, he is motivated by naught but a deep and purely altruistic concern for my immortal soul. What matter an obscure reg on some Internet chat board when compared to an eternity of torment?

 

[OmarKhayyam]

"My pitiful friend - I am having a hard time composing the words that adequately convey the level of gross egotistical sentiment in that statement."

As a matter of simple fact Sir - I am neither. The first by achievement and the second by choice.

As for your struggle to compose a proper reply you can "save" us both there.

Yourself: embarrassment by not posting such a ignorant lackluster and superstition filled response.

And me: the corresponding unrewarded effort expended in reading it.

 

[sojourner]

Most atheists I know require more than platitudes spouted at them in order to effect change. It's kind of like standing before a house afire and telling it, "Gee...you really shouldn't burn, you know." Get some fricking water and put out the fire.

Most atheists need empirical data. Actions, in this case, may speak louder than words.

 

[Hospitaller]

"Oh, and im sorry, i never read that book, I didnt realize that was supposedely Satan talking."

That's obvious.

FYI, it is generally considered the greatest epic poem in the English Language. Milton wrote it (dictated it really. Like Homer he was blind.) "to justify the ways of God to man."

He intended to make Satan an odious creature and to 17th readers he was. But modern readers have seen in Satan a more sympathetic, even noble, character.

Some observers have seen in this a subtle but real change in how religion and mythology in general has lost some of its hold on our culture.

A small indication of the general decline of "faith" as an intellectual force and the ascendance of reason.

With that thought in mind I can understand - if not excuse - your ignorance.

umm.. well... thank you!!!

 

[OmarKhayyam]

Anytime.