Eternal grovelling or nonexistence?

[CarlinKnew]

Because I am trying to get you to understand what you just posted here. It is Evil men who abuse religion to get what they want. Yet you still want to blame the religion itself. Instead of blaming the actual men who are abusing it.

You're right, and guns don't kill people, people kill people. I blame the men, but religion is a convenient tool for control just as guns are convenient tools for killing.

 

[Storm]

CarlinKnew, thanks for answering my questions. I don't agree with you, but I think evereything's been said, so I'll leave it at that.

 

[Storm]

However, that line of argument is different from saying that the belief in a god is a necessary condition for religious terrorism. It just IS.

Yes it is. That's a royally stupid argument that I never made, and I would much appreciate it if you stopped trying to calim I did.

 

[Enoch07]

You're right, and guns don't kill people, people kill people. I blame the men, but religion is a convenient tool for control just as guns are convenient tools for killing.

How is it controlling them?

 

[OmarKhayyam]

By instruction.

 

[sojourner]

You don't have to respond via 17 one-line posts. You can condense your reply into 1 long post instead of cluttering up the thread.

I've been here over three times as long as you have. I've made many, many times the posts you have. I've earned the respect of the folks here. I don't need you to tell me how to post. I respond how I respond. If you don't like it, you can get over it.

 

[sojourner]

If they've been taught all their lives that killing infidels is good and that God rewards them for it, who do you blame for their crimes: themselves or the evil men that lied to them?

Soooo....people shouldn't be held responsible for their own actions? Not even the courts let us get away with that. The "I didn't see the sign" excuse doesn't garner any mitigation.

These terrorists are all old enough and smart enough to know what they're doing. I blame them, and I blame the system that "produced" them.

 

[CarlinKnew]

I've been here over three times as long as you have. I've made many, many times the posts you have. I've earned the respect of the folks here. I don't need you to tell me how to post. I respond how I respond. If you don't like it, you can get over it.

That's fine but don't expect me to respond to all those one-liners.

 

[sojourner]

Cop out!

Belief or burn. That's the offer and it IS extortion.

Not a cop out. Burning is the cop out.
A cop out is pleading to a lesser charge. I haven't done that. I've appealed to a higher charge: belief.

God is presented as the ultimate good. Choosing not to believe that is copping out to your own whims.

 

[sojourner]

That's fine but don't expect me to respond to all those one-liners.

I don't expect anything out of you, other than seeing you one day in heaven.

 

[Enoch07]

By instruction.

Ok so if I instruct you to jump off a cliff are you going to do it?

 

[CarlinKnew]

Ok so if I instruct you to jump off a cliff are you going to do it?

If you believe that God tells you to jump off a cliff are you going to do it?

 

[Enoch07]

If you believe that God tells you to jump off a cliff are you going to do it?

No. If God wants me dead He will kill me. God would never ask me to kill myself.

I know Omars answer will be no as well, but my point is........ Regardless of who or what tells you to do something. It is your decision to do it or not. Religion is not mind control anymore than I am able to control your mind or anyone elses.

 

[CarlinKnew]

No. If God wants me dead He will kill me. God would never ask me to kill myself.

I didn't ask if you think God would ever want you to kill yourself. I asked IF you believed that God asked you to do it, would you?

I know Omars answer will be no as well, but my point is........ Regardless of who or what tells you to do something. It is your decision to do it or not. Religion is not mind control anymore than I am able to control your mind or anyone elses.

If someone truly believes that eternal punishment or eternal reward is at stake, they'll do whatever they believe God asks of them. The motivation is strong enough that it might as well be considered mind control.

 

[ayani]

This is mainly for the Abrahamic religions. Some believers say hell isn't eternal torture but simply nonexistence. Would you prefer to spend eternity worshiping God or to cease to exist?

i would rather worship God. out of a desire to, though. true worship should be willful, voluntary, and a source of meaningful joy. worship that is stalled, empty, or involuntary isn't the kind of worship anyone would want to be doing for an eternity.

who wants to spend forever simply going through the motions with half a heart in it?

 

[Enoch07]

I didn't ask if you think God would ever want you to kill yourself. I asked IF you believed that God asked you to do it, would you?

God would not ask me to kill myself. If I ever did hear a voice telling me to kill myself or someone else I would go to a shrink immediately. Get it through your head now because asking a hundred times over will do you no good.

If someone truly believes that eternal punishment or eternal reward is at stake, they'll do whatever they believe God asks of them. The motivation is strong enough that it might as well be considered mind control.

Murderers break Gods law and Mans law everyday here in the U.S. The fear of the death penalty and the fear of eternal punishment does not stop them from doing it. Your theory of religion as mind control does not hold water.

 

[CarlinKnew]

God would not ask me to kill myself. If I ever did hear a voice telling me to kill myself or someone else I would go to a shrink immediately. Get it through your head now because asking a hundred times over will do you no good.

I realize you don't believe God would ever ask you to kill yourself, but I'm speaking hypothetically. IF you believed that God wanted you to kill yourself, would you do it? I don't even believe in God and I can answer the question: yes I would.

Murderers break Gods law and Mans law everyday here in the U.S. The fear of the death penalty and the fear of eternal punishment does not stop them from doing it. Your theory of religion as mind control does not hold water.

Well if they're Christians they can simply ask God for forgiveness and they can spend eternity in heaven. They can also hope that they won't be caught and sent to jail.

However, the religious suicide bomber believes that he'll be sent to an eternal paradise by doing Allah's work, and perhaps he'll be eternally punished if he doesn't. That kind of motivation is strong enough that it might as well be considered mind control.

 

[CarlinKnew]

i would rather worship God. out of a desire to, though. true worship should be willful, voluntary, and a source of meaningful joy. worship that is stalled, empty, or involuntary isn't the kind of worship anyone would want to be doing for an eternity.

who wants to spend forever simply going through the motions with half a heart in it?

I just can't understand how worship would ever bring someone joy, it's just not in my DNA. Other than that I agree 100%.

 

[ayani]

I just can't understand how worship would ever bring someone joy, it's just not in my DNA. Other than that I agree 100%.

well, in order for something to bring someone any kind of positive feelings, generally it has to mean something to them. it has to make sense and relate purposefully to the person in connection with how they see the world, themselves, and the act of worship.

in other words, they have to have an understanding of the reality behind who or what they are worshiping, or what they are worshiping about.

 

[Enoch07]

I realize you don't believe God would ever ask you to kill yourself, but I'm speaking hypothetically. IF you believed that God wanted you to kill yourself, would you do it? I don't even believe in God and I can answer the question: yes I would.

There is no hypothetical for that question. If you hear a voice in your head telling you to kill yourself or anyone else it is not God.

Well if they're Christians they can simply ask God for forgiveness and they can spend eternity in heaven. They can also hope that they won't be caught and sent to jail.

Wrong. They can ask for forgiveness yes. But does not mean they will be forgiven. God could still damn them even if they do ask for forgiveness. See you have no knowledge of how Christianity works.

However, the religious suicide bomber believes that he'll be sent to an eternal paradise by doing Allah's work, and perhaps he'll be eternally punished if he doesn't. That kind of motivation is strong enough that it might as well be considered mind control.

Wrong again. Islam does not teach that. You know nothing of Islam either it seems. You really need to study up on Islam and Christianity if you intend on attacking them. You are losing credibility with every post you make.