Eternal grovelling or nonexistence?

[CarlinKnew]

A spotless criminal record does not indicate a good morality, and families tend to be biased.

I have to agree with Enoch, here. Good people do not strap bombs to their chests and murder civilians, no matter what their priests tell them.

They might if they've been indoctrinated at a young age. To them it's God's work and therefore perfectly moral.

 

[sojourner]

I'm exercising my free will, and I don't believe the claims made in the bible, based on having freewill. According to most christians I've talked they would say I'm going to hell.

Doesn't matter what they say. it only matters what God says. Perhaps you need to find a better cache of Christians with which to associate... Xy is not about condemnation. It's about salvation.

 

[sojourner]

What is your understanding of the word "worship?"

Worship is a shape of events, laid out in time, in which we enter into a relationship with God, such that we are transformed. Such relationship requires love and trust, not fear and defiance.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

And you need not take the word of godless heathen.

From the first moment I looked into that horror on Sept. 11, into that fireball, into that explosion of horror, I knew it. I knew it before anything was said about those who did it or why. I recognized an old companion. I recognized religion. Look, I am a priest for over 30 years. Religion is my life, it's my vocation, it's my existence. I'd give my life for it; I hope to have the courage. Therefore, I know it. And I know, and recognized that day, that the same force, energy, sense, instinct, whatever, passion -- because religion can be a passion -- the same passion that motivates religious people to do great things is the same one that that day brought all that destruction. When they said that the people who did it did it in the name of God, I wasn't the slightest bit surprised. It only confirmed what I knew. I recognized it.
I recognized this thirst, this demand for the absolute.
Father Lorenzo Albacete

 

[sojourner]

OK, if I don't believe do I burn?

I believe that, at some point, you will believe.

 

[sojourner]

Would it be possible for a mod to condense sojourner's 17 one-line posts into a single post? Isn't there a rule against quintuplet posting or something, cause this is getting out of hand.

Just responding to your posts, as they come up. I wasn't here overnight to respond.

 

[CarlinKnew]

Just responding to your posts, as they come up. I wasn't here overnight to respond.

You don't have to respond via 17 one-line posts. You can condense your reply into 1 long post instead of cluttering up the thread.

 

[Storm]

They're mistaken, then.

You don't know that. You have faith, and I respect it, but it could be wrong.

Don't misread, I much prefer your version to theirs. It's more virtuous and logical both. But none of us know for sure.

 

[Storm]

They might if they've been indoctrinated at a young age. To them it's God's work and therefore perfectly moral.

Then they're not good people. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

 

[Storm]

Worship is a shape of events, laid out in time, in which we enter into a relationship with God, such that we are transformed. Such relationship requires love and trust, not fear and defiance.

I like that. I like that a great deal.

 

[CarlinKnew]

Then they're not good people. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

They're innocent if they don't know any better.

 

[Storm]

They're innocent if they don't know any better.

Hmm... I can't agree. Victims, mayhap, but an innocent mass murderer is an oxymoron.

 

[CarlinKnew]

Hmm... I can't agree. Victims, mayhap, but an innocent mass murderer is an oxymoron.

If they've been taught all their lives that killing infidels is good and that God rewards them for it, who do you blame for their crimes: themselves or the evil men that lied to them?

 

[Storm]

If they've been taught all their lives that killing infidels is good and that God rewards them for it, who do you blame for their crimes: themselves or the evil men that lied to them?

"If they've been taught all their lives that killing infidels is good and that God rewards them for it," then they themselves are evil. They have been taught evil, and internalized it. It's like spiritual genetics - evil begets evil.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

I believe that, at some point, you will believe.

Cop out!

Belief or burn. That's the offer and it IS extortion.

 

[CarlinKnew]

"If they've been taught all their lives that killing infidels is good and that God rewards them for it," then they themselves are evil. They have been taught evil, and internalized it. It's like spiritual genetics - evil begets evil.

Then we disagree. I say they're not evil but deceived. If they knew they were being lied to, they wouldn't continue.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

""If they've been taught all their lives that killing infidels is good and that God rewards them for it," then they themselves are evil. They have been taught evil, and internalized it. It's like spiritual genetics - evil begets evil."

You can excuse and twist and evade all you want but the good Father is right on.
If you didn't BELIEVE in a god you wouldn't kill in its name.
Belief is a necessary but not sufficient condition for religious terrorism.

No belief in a god - no terror in its name. You can't get around that.:yes:

 

[Storm]

Then we disagree. I say they're not evil but deceived. If they knew they were being lied to, they wouldn't continue.

Where do you draw the line, though? Who started the pernicious lie? After all, it's not a lie if you believe it.

You don't seem to give people much credit, either. "Is cold-blooded murder virtuous?" is not a question which relies on education. Good people reject it based on instinctive morality, if nothing else (wherever you think that comes from).

 

[Storm]

""If they've been taught all their lives that killing infidels is good and that God rewards them for it," then they themselves are evil. They have been taught evil, and internalized it. It's like spiritual genetics - evil begets evil."

You can excuse and twist and evade all you want but the good Father is right on.
If you didn't BELIEVE in a god you wouldn't kill in its name.
Belief is a necessary but not sufficient condition for religious terrorism.

No belief in a god - no terror in its name. You can't get around that.:yes:

Oh, burning strawmen already? I'll get the marshmallows! :camp:

 

[CarlinKnew]

Where do you draw the line, though? Who started the pernicious lie? After all, it's not a lie if you believe it.

They believe it because they've been lied to. If they were educated and the lie was clearly pointed out for them, they wouldn't believe it.

You don't seem to give people much credit, either. "Is cold-blooded murder virtuous?" is not a question which relies on education. Good people reject it based on instinctive morality, if nothing else (wherever you think that comes from).

If they're taught that killing infidels is comparable to stepping on ants, it's not cold-blooded murder but simply housekeeping.