Eternal Hell

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

God is Good, Merciful, Loving and Just.

You don't have to invoke his goodness and mercy to refute the OP. We're going exclusively with God's just side here.

Hell is a place you are separated from God, Hell is death. On our path to Him He is all of those things I described above. But you cannot be where He is if you are not of the Spirit. If you are merely of the flesh you cannot be where He is. Being away from God you will suffer, from what I have read and heard in the Bible.

For all eternity? Can you possibly defend that as being just?

We have been given free will so you have the choice. Don't blame the One who has made you free.

What if somebody tricked you about Christianity?
What if all you thought about it was that it was a pile full of ****?
What if nobody ever told you about Christianity?
What if the way we've interpreted the Bible is wrong, and different people are going to hell than we thought?
What if the Bible itself was a trap to send
What if, doc?

If you do not want to be wth God or believe in Him, your spirit has not accepted Christ. You are separated from Him, and only you can open the door that is always unlocked. We are the strangers at the door of Christ, He is calling us to His home, constantly inviting us.

Beliefs are learned, not chosen.

 

[DiscipleOfChrist]

The fire is hell, there is an everlasting hell. Listen to you, you carry out these debates in a fashion of an ego court. Why do you take away from the word of God? So is there no eternal heaven? Beware of this, For it is not for you to debate or descide, for it has already been written.

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matt. 25:46)

"And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power," (2 Thess. 1:9).

These men are those who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever," (Jude12-13).

"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever," (Rev. 20:10).​

Rev. 14:11: "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." ​

We are warned so many time about everlasting damnation, too many to show right now. I believe the words of God the Almighty Father. Not what some persons views are in a "heated debate".

Are you prepared to debate the word of God?

 

[DiscipleOfChrist]

For all eternity? Can you possibly defend that as being just?

Yes it is just. Do you understand? It is like choosing to go on another spaceship going in the opposite direction in the universe from Gods ship, only the separation from God is even greater than this. How can you be with Him if you choose not to be? you have to be re born to eternal life only through the spirit can this happen. Before a child can be with us in this world he/she has to be made and born. Without the spirit you are not made or born to the spirit of life with God, you are still where you are, you are separate and apart of the biological world.

You can only go if you choose so. If you do accept after death, I leave that to God.

What if somebody tricked you about Christianity?
What if all you thought about it was that it was a pile full of ****?
What if nobody ever told you about Christianity?
What if the way we've interpreted the Bible is wrong, and different people are going to hell than we thought?
What if the Bible itself was a trap to send
What if, doc?

I believe God will have Mercy on those who never knew Him. BUT those who are in the range of the word of God have heard and can follow if they choose to.

Beliefs are learned, not chosen.

You are wrong. Beliefs are chosen, and we are chosen by God. For one example I turn to a man in Afghanistan. He was muslim but had heard the words from Jesus Christ and chose to follow Him. The tribe sentenced him to death, but before doing so, gave him a chance to pledge back to Islam to save himself, he never did. God bless him.

We choose. And if you still do not believe that, I am sorry for you.

 

[logician]

The idea of eternal punishment does not even have strong biblical support. Needless to say, a god who would put "souls" in such a place is a monster.

 

[Kcnorwood]

I think its funny that God wants you to love him & worship him & who created out of love, Has not ONE problem sending you to hell to burn. Some people who call themselves christians dont belive in hell. Then why bother believeing at all?
If you belive in Heaven & God then you should believe in all of what the bible says.
If We're Gods greatest creation & God is SO perfect then why do we need to be safed in the first place?

Are you prepared to debate the word of God? Quote by DC

In a heartbeat the bible is NOT the word of God it was written BY man therefore it if flawed it is filled with Contraditions,Killings, Hate & rape these are not the teachings of ANY just god but man! God gave man freewil but yet he wants to punish us for chooseing it again how just it that?


The pressance of imperfections in the universe disproves the supposed perfections of the creator

 

[DiscipleOfChrist]

Who told you the Bible is not the word of God? Hm?


Men? Are you basing it on what men said who were not even there? Men are corrupt, but not the Bible, it is alive.

 

[Kcnorwood]

The bible is supposed to be the written word of God BUT it was written by man. I think you might want to read the bible again or more, Have you even read it?

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

The fire is hell, there is an everlasting hell. Listen to you, you carry out these debates in a fashion of an ego court. Why do you take away from the word of God? So is there no eternal heaven? Beware of this, For it is not for you to debate or descide, for it has already been written.

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matt. 25:46)

"And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power," (2 Thess. 1:9).

These men are those who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever," (Jude12-13).

"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever," (Rev. 20:10).​

Rev. 14:11: "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." ​

We are warned so many time about everlasting damnation, too many to show right now. I believe the words of God the Almighty Father. Not what some persons views are in a "heated debate".

Are you prepared to debate the word of God?

Ad hominem attacks, opinion presented as fact, and ignorning the conditions of the OP.

Come on, man. I'm sure you can do better than that.

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Yes it is just. Do you understand? It is like choosing to go on another spaceship going in the opposite direction in the universe from Gods ship, only the separation from God is even greater than this. How can you be with Him if you choose not to be? you have to be re born to eternal life only through the spirit can this happen. Before a child can be with us in this world he/she has to be made and born. Without the spirit you are not made or born to the spirit of life with God, you are still where you are, you are separate and apart of the biological world.

You can only go if you choose so. If you do accept after death, I leave that to God.




I believe God will have Mercy on those who never knew Him. BUT those who are in the range of the word of God have heard and can follow if they choose to.



You are wrong. Beliefs are chosen, and we are chosen by God. For one example I turn to a man in Afghanistan. He was muslim but had heard the words from Jesus Christ and chose to follow Him. The tribe sentenced him to death, but before doing so, gave him a chance to pledge back to Islam to save himself, he never did. God bless him.

We choose. And if you still do not believe that, I am sorry for you.

Not once in this entire post did you address the OP.

 

[faithofabraham]

man was made from dirt.
man was given the breath of life to live.
man was not given a soul(spirit).
man will die one day and turn back into dirt.
man will rise from the dirt at the calling of Christ upon his return.
man will be judged according to his works.
man will be given a reward.
good reward- immortality
bad reward- not receiving immortality.
conclusion...to have immortality means for man to live forever, wether good or bad.
the Word of God says that only those chosen as righteous will receive immortality...meaning that everyone else must die. lake of fire and brimstone kills man, probably instantly.
forever? probably the feeling that they get before they die? has anyone ever burnt themselves badly, how long did the moment seem to last? probably way longer than it really was.
God is merciful. But God also asks us to make a choice.
what do you choose-life or death? not life forever, pain forever.

this is all an opinion of course because i used verses not. for anything but the Word of God is just the opinion of a man. Read the bible find the truth.

FOA

 

[DiscipleOfChrist]

When I see something like this.

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matt. 25:46)

Along with the others I posted, I can really asure you that eternal punishment means forever and eternal life means forever! I would like to know how do you interpret it?

What is to be misunderstood? Now I certainly am not implying everyone that goes to hell will stay there forever. (my belief)

 

[sojourner]

We are warned so many time about everlasting damnation, too many to show right now. I believe the words of God the Almighty Father. Not what some persons views are in a "heated debate".

That is your poersonal position on the Bible. Not all Christians have the same position.

 

[sojourner]

Without the spirit you are not made or born to the spirit of life with God, you are still where you are, you are separate and apart of the biological world.

We are all "of God." How can we be truly separate? I think "apart" is a better term here.

Yes it is just.

I think God is a God who tempers justice with unbounded mercy. God wants all of us to be with God. What is just about our being apart form God, if that's not God's will? The Bible, after all, does say that God doesn't want even one to be lost.

 

[sojourner]

I think its funny that God wants you to love him & worship him & who created out of love, Has not ONE problem sending you to hell to burn. Some people who call themselves christians dont belive in hell. Then why bother believeing at all?
If you belive in Heaven & God then you should believe in all of what the bible says.
If We're Gods greatest creation & God is SO perfect then why do we need to be safed in the first place?

Are you prepared to debate the word of God? Quote by DC

In a heartbeat the bible is NOT the word of God it was written BY man therefore it if flawed it is filled with Contraditions,Killings, Hate & rape these are not the teachings of ANY just god but man! God gave man freewil but yet he wants to punish us for chooseing it again how just it that?


The pressance of imperfections in the universe disproves the supposed perfections of the creator

I think God has a BIG problem with "sending us to hell."

My faith is not predicated upon the existence of a literal hell, nor does it depend upon it. I "bother believing" because God is love and because God desires a relationship with me.

Why??? That's a rather arbitrary proviso you have chosen to place upon my belief system.

Because, in order to have a love relationship, that relationship must be one of free will. We have chosen to live apart from God. Therefore, reconciliation was necessary.

We don't "choose free will." Free will is part of the nature we were created to have. God does not punish us for "choosing" something we don't choose. God doesn't punish us, period. We make our own bed to lie in. God's not going to force us into a relationship. That would be entrapment and enslavement, not love.

These "imperfections" are viewed as such by...what perspective? How do you know the universe is imperfect? By whose standards? If the universe is imperfect, we have made it so by sin.

 

[sojourner]

man was made from dirt.
man was given the breath of life to live.
man was not given a soul(spirit).
man will die one day and turn back into dirt.
man will rise from the dirt at the calling of Christ upon his return.
man will be judged according to his works.
man will be given a reward.
good reward- immortality
bad reward- not receiving immortality.
conclusion...to have immortality means for man to live forever, wether good or bad.
the Word of God says that only those chosen as righteous will receive immortality...meaning that everyone else must die. lake of fire and brimstone kills man, probably instantly.
forever? probably the feeling that they get before they die? has anyone ever burnt themselves badly, how long did the moment seem to last? probably way longer than it really was.
God is merciful. But God also asks us to make a choice.
what do you choose-life or death? not life forever, pain forever.

this is all an opinion of course because i used verses not. for anything but the Word of God is just the opinion of a man. Read the bible find the truth.

FOA

Grace is not a reward -- it's a gift. A reward is based upon something we do. We are told, however, that salvation comes by faith -- not works. Therefore, grace cannot be a reward. Grace is a gift of love, given to all in love.

 

[faithofabraham]

Grace is not a reward -- it's a gift. A reward is based upon something we do. We are told, however, that salvation comes by faith -- not works. Therefore, grace cannot be a reward. Grace is a gift of love, given to all in love.

And what is Faith?
And what is faith without works. DEAD.
Do you believe that the words of James are not guided by God also?
Do you not believe that there are people out there that absolutely believe in God and know God but choose to not follow his Word?
You and I do it every day. We sin. We both believe that there is a God in Heaven watching our every move and yet we still choose to disobey him. There are those out in the world who decide not to follow God at all, but they know God. The devil is another example of that. The Jews in Jesus' time is an example. The people during the thousand years who turn against Jesus to make war with him, are yet another example.
You can say you believe in God with all your heart but in the end if your works do not back up your words then your faith is in vain and God will not recognize you on the day of judgement.

A reward is based upon something we do.

Yeah thats called believing and obeying God.

FOA

 

[DiscipleOfChrist]

And what is Faith?
And what is faith without works. DEAD.
Do you believe that the words of James are not guided by God also?
Do you not believe that there are people out there that absolutely believe in God and know God but choose to not follow his Word?
You and I do it every day. We sin. We both believe that there is a God in Heaven watching our every move and yet we still choose to disobey him. There are those out in the world who decide not to follow God at all, but they know God. The devil is another example of that. The Jews in Jesus' time is an example. The people during the thousand years who turn against Jesus to make war with him, are yet another example.
You can say you believe in God with all your heart but in the end if your works do not back up your words then your faith is in vain and God will not recognize you on the day of judgement.



Yeah thats called believing and obeying God.

FOA

You hit it faithofabraham

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

 

[logician]

Thank goodness I'm an athiest and don't have to worry about whether a supposed god is a monster who sends people to everlasting punishment.

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

When I see something like this.

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matt. 25:46)

Along with the others I posted, I can really asure you that eternal punishment means forever and eternal life means forever! I would like to know how do you interpret it?

What is to be misunderstood? Now I certainly am not implying everyone that goes to hell will stay there forever. (my belief)

The OP. The OP. You STILL haven't answered the OP.

Prove that a just God--not necessarily a merciful God, but strictly a just God--can ethically send people to eternal torture, based solely on rational arguments and not recitation from Scripture.

EDIT: If you believe in such a thing.

You do realize that being unable to provide the requested answer can be taken as evidence that no such answer can be made, right?

 

[Kcnorwood]

I think God has a BIG problem with "sending us to hell."

My faith is not predicated upon the existence of a literal hell, nor does it depend upon it. I "bother believing" because God is love and because God desires a relationship with me.

Why??? That's a rather arbitrary proviso you have chosen to place upon my belief system.

Because, in order to have a love relationship, that relationship must be one of free will. We have chosen to live apart from God. Therefore, reconciliation was necessary.

We don't "choose free will." Free will is part of the nature we were created to have. God does not punish us for "choosing" something we don't choose. God doesn't punish us, period. We make our own bed to lie in. God's not going to force us into a relationship. That would be entrapment and enslavement, not love.

These "imperfections" are viewed as such by...what perspective? How do you know the universe is imperfect? By whose standards? If the universe is imperfect, we have made it so by sin.

If thats true then why did God even create such a place?