European Human Rights Court Backs Sharia Blasphemy Law

[icehorse]

This woman is connected to a bunch of folks who are definitely trying to stir up religious and racial hatred against Islam.

Do you know this, or are you just assuming that a person can't dislike Islam without there being a racist component as well?

 

[oldbadger]

These are all very different situations, let's not conflate them shall we?

What a joke!
Says you, who twisted an EU Court judgement upholding a conviction,l into:-
'European Human Rights Court Backs Sharia Blasphemy Law'

Dear oh dear.....

 

[oldbadger]

Do you know this, or are you just assuming that a person can't dislike Islam without there being a racist component as well?

Oh please! Why didn't you spend twenty minutes in research on all this?

The connections are there.......... go have a look around for yourself, but if by any chance you need guidance and assistance, just tell me that you need my help and I'll take you on a tour of discovery.

 

[icehorse]

Oh please! Why didn't you spend twenty minutes in research on all this?

The connections are there.......... go have a look around for yourself, but if by any chance you need guidance and assistance, just tell me that you need my help and I'll take you on a tour of discovery.

oh please, i'm just responding to your post

 

[icehorse]

What a joke!
Says you, who twisted an EU Court judgement upholding a conviction,l into:-
'European Human Rights Court Backs Sharia Blasphemy Law'

Dear oh dear.....

Criticizing an ideology is not the same as slander or libel.

 

[oldbadger]

Criticizing an ideology is not the same as slander or libel.

Oh no!
Attempts to whip up mobs or increase hatred or any speech or writing to incite aggression through violence, harassment or victimization is a criminal offence anywhere in Europe, which is why two Courts have convicted this woman already.

I notice how connected people and groups are insidiously insisting that Bin Laden understood the Koran correctly, whereas all the millions of moderate Muslims have misunderstood the Koran....... what a sneaky nasty way of deflating the moderates .........

Nah...... the Court convicted her well and truly. I'm only glad that she didn't get off the first charge, nor the appeal.

And in European Courts we need to keep convicting and sentencing rabble rousers just the same as terrorist murderers........ Good justice is detached justice, not your kind, imo.

 

[icehorse]

I notice how connected people and groups are insidiously insisting that Bin Laden understood the Koran correctly, whereas all the millions of moderate Muslims have misunderstood the Koran....... what a sneaky nasty way of deflating the moderates .........

Half the Muslims in the UK think homosexuality should be a crime. Are they all misreading the Quran? Half the Muslims in the UK think Sharia should be a part of England's legal system. Are they all misreading the Quran?

Put another way, how do you define a "moderate Muslim"? If a Muslim thinks Sharia should be the law in Europe, but would not commit violence, does that constitute "moderate"?

For the record, I think Sharia is anything but "moderate". I'm not talking about the gory stuff either. I'm talking about the day-to-day misogyny, homophobia, anti-semitism, theocratic, supremacist "us vs. them" stuff.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Nothing could get me to vote for Trump. Nothing. I am not going to contribute to the political suicide pact that is Trumpism. But if the Dems suddenly became overwhelming in favor of jailing people for insulting Islam -- or any religion -- I would look for sane Republicans to vote for (if any can be found in this day and age). Failing that, I'd vote third party.

Hmmm. I'm guessing you don't really mean that. Suppose Adolf Hitler were resurrected and were running against Trump, and the polls indicated that each had an approximately 50% probability of winning. I would hope that you would vote for Trump in that scenario. I think that voting for a third party candidate is acceptable up to a point. However, choosing the lesser of two evils is sometimes morally necessary if one of the evils is far worse than the other. I'm sure you have a "Trump threshold" in which the evil of an opposing candidate would so far outweigh the "evil" of Donald Trump that you would vote for Trump. The difference is that it would take a bit more for you to reach that threshold than for me.

 

[oldbadger]

Half the Muslims in the UK think homosexuality should be a crime. Are they all misreading the Quran? Half the Muslims in the UK think Sharia should be a part of England's legal system. Are they all misreading the Quran?

Ah ha.......... so you think like this as well, eh? I wondered.....

Put another way, how do you define a "moderate Muslim"? If a Muslim thinks Sharia should be the law in Europe, but would not commit violence, does that constitute "moderate"?

I'm more interested just now in figuring out how moderate you are.

For the record, I think Sharia is anything but "moderate".

You use the word as a facilitator to enable fear and hatred, I think.

I'm not talking about the gory stuff either. I'm talking about the day-to-day misogyny, homophobia, anti-semitism, theocratic, supremacist "us vs. them" stuff.

Most extreme versions of the Abrahamic religions are a bit like that, you know. Some Fundie Christians want the death penalty in public for Gays, Adulterers, etc...... and would like to see Mecca and Medina 'glassed' as they put it. OMG! you don't want Mecca 'glassed', do you? Have I pressed a delicate point there?

You see........ you've left the EU Court Case and Verdict behind as you now begin the real rant........ that Court Verdict was just an enabler for you to beat your drum yet again......

 

[Estro Felino]

Half the Muslims in the UK think homosexuality should be a crime. Are they all misreading the Quran? Half the Muslims in the UK think Sharia should be a part of England's legal system. Are they all misreading the Quran?

best part starts at 4:15

Has there ever been a more spectacularly misunderstood religion?

 

[Sunstone]

Hmmm. I'm guessing you don't really mean that. Suppose Adolf Hitler were resurrected and were running against Trump, and the polls indicated that each had an approximately 50% probability of winning. I would hope that you would vote for Trump in that scenario. I think that voting for a third party candidate is acceptable up to a point. However, choosing the lesser of two evils is sometimes morally necessary if one of the evils is far worse than the other. I'm sure you have a "Trump threshold" in which the evil of an opposing candidate would so far outweigh the "evil" of Donald Trump that you would vote for Trump. The difference is that it would take a bit more for you to reach that threshold than for me.

That's a thoughtful point, but I think you're underestimating how bad Trump seems to me. I don't see it happening that someone worse than him will be run for president. There are no doubt worse people, but I don't see them getting on the ticket.

 

[Altfish]

Half the Muslims in the UK think homosexuality should be a crime. Are they all misreading the Quran? ?

90% of evangelic Christians think homosexuality is a crime. Are they misreading The Bible?

 

[Glaurung]

90% of evangelic Christians think homosexuality is a crime. Are they misreading The Bible?

I have a hard time believing that so many would want to criminalize homosexuality. Do you have a source for such a claim?

 

[Altfish]

I have a hard time believing that so many would want to criminalize homosexuality. Do you have a source for such a claim?

To be fair the numbers are dropping and that was an exaggeration to make a point but the Pew figures are here..

More U.S. Christians OK with homosexuality

It is certainly no better than Muslims

 

[Glaurung]

To be fair the numbers are dropping and that was an exaggeration to make a point but the Pew figures are here..

More U.S. Christians OK with homosexuality

It is certainly no better than Muslims

I don't think your point is valid though. Disapproval of homosexuality as sinful is not equivalent to advocating for the reintroduction of sodomy laws.

 

[Altfish]

I don't think your point is valid though. Disapproval of homosexuality as sinful is not equivalent to advocating for the reintroduction of sodomy laws.

So, they would all support the gay cake couple rather than the bakers?
Do they support the legalisation of same sex marriage?
Would they approve of same sex couples adopting children?

I never mentioned reintroducing the sodomy laws.

 

[Glaurung]

So, they would all support the gay cake couple rather than the bakers?

Bakers having the right to decline requests which would compel their speech isn't the same thing as supporting the criminalization of homosexuality.

Do they support the legalisation of same sex marriage?

Refusal to support gay marriage is not the same as saying that homosexual relationships ought to be illegal.

Would they approve of same sex couples adopting children?

It simply does not follow. Allowing people the freedom to enter into homosexual relationships does not logically compel a support for the right to adopt children.

I never mentioned reintroducing the sodomy laws.

You claimed that ninety percent of Evangelical Christians consider homosexuality a crime. A crime is an action proscribed by a legal authority, usually the state. Ergo, your claim is essentially that Evangelicals want the state to prosecute homosexual acts. I.e sodomy.

As of yet, you've been unable to show this. You've only shown that Evangelicals as a whole disprove of homosexuality as a sin.

 

[Altfish]

Bakers having the right to decline requests which would compel their speech isn't the same thing as supporting the criminalization of homosexuality.


Refusal to support gay marriage is not the same as saying that homosexual relationships ought to be illegal.


It simply does not follow. Allowing people the freedom to enter into homosexual relationships does not logically compel a support for the right to adopt children.


You claimed that ninety percent of Evangelical Christians consider homosexuality a crime. A crime is an action proscribed by a legal authority, usually the state. Ergo, your claim is essentially that Evangelicals want the state to prosecute homosexual acts. I.e sodomy.

As of yet, you've been unable to show this. You've only shown that Evangelicals as a whole disprove of homosexuality as a sin.

I have taken back the 90% figure and corrected it with the Pew survey figures.
You are now telling me that if something is a 'sin' evangelicals are happy that it is legal.
I also notice that you ducked most of my questions about evangelicals reaction to gay lifestyle.

But hey ho those nasty Muslims...

 

[Glaurung]

I have taken back the 90% figure and corrected it with the Pew survey figures.

Which if I recall addressed the degree of Christian disapproval of homosexuality. How many would want its criminalization is a different question.

You are now telling me that if something is a 'sin' evangelicals are happy that it is legal.

All criminal acts are immoral, but not all immoral acts are criminal. Fornication for example.

This is not a hard distinction to grasp.

I also notice that you ducked most of my questions about evangelicals reaction to gay lifestyle.

Your questions were mostly conflations. Yes, Evangelical Christianity considers homosexual acts to be immoral. As does all forms of orthodox (small o) Christianity. But your claim that mainstream Christians by in large support its recriminalization is something you've evidently pulled out of thin air.

But hey ho those nasty Muslims...

The Islamic world isn't exactly LGBT friendly.

You may dislike Christian sexual ethics, but Christians are not the ones dropping homosexuals head first off of multistory buildings. The reality, is that in many Muslim majority states sodomy is still very much a criminal offense. Sometimes a capital one.

 

[icehorse]

You see........ you've left the EU Court Case and Verdict behind as you now begin the real rant........ that Court Verdict was just an enabler for you to beat your drum yet again......

I'm sorry, that's simply not the case. I responded to your rant concerning the proper understanding of the Quran.

==

I'm a free speech advocate, I've been clear about that. Islam leads the way among the major religions that would like to promote the idea of blasphemy. So if you want to say I'm beating the drum again, I'm fine with that. I'll beat the drum against any one or any group that tries to curtail free speech.