European Union: the lounge-loving and elitist Left has been defeated

[Estro Felino]

Your own link explains why.
https://tass.com/world/1719147

I don't see why Lula should have received someone like Zelenskyy.

He receives someone like Putin.

I truly doubt you would side with Lula if you were aware of the current economic policies.

Such as?
Give me an example...you know...I can understand macroeconomics...

 

[Magic Man]

Partially agreed.

Oligarchs poison everything, and oligarchs love any and all flavors of extremism, it keeps normal people distracted.

But the so-called "left" and "right" both have a lot of extremists.

They both have extremists. At this point only the right's extremists have any real power in most places. Right-wing extremism is gaining a lot in popularity, as evidenced by the various presidents and prime ministers who've been elected and these EU elections. Left-wing extremists have no power at all in America and are losing power in most places.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The French voted for RN also because they are disappointed in Macron and in his pro-war speeches.
The French people are disgusted by war because WW2 traumatized them.

Do you got any link to that?

 

[icehorse]

They both have extremists. At this point only the right's extremists have any real power in most places. Right-wing extremism is gaining a lot in popularity, as evidenced by the various presidents and prime ministers who've been elected and these EU elections. Left-wing extremists have no power at all in America and are losing power in most places.

We disagree on that point. We can see things like DEI influencing all aspects of universities and corporations and government. Same with gender ideology making it's way into our legal system. We see how the extreme left is steadily attacking free speech...

Both "sides" are powerful.

 

[Magic Man]

It's interesting that Socialism and Fascism are identical down the road.

Uh, no, they're not.

National Socialist Party?

You're not aware of political figures using labels to gain legitimacy/power/support? The Nazis were not socialists, which is why communists and Social Democrats were the first victims put in concentration camps.

 

[Altfish]

Yes.
But I also said that the Russophobic nonsense and the anti-Putin propaganda would unleash Nationalism and Populism all over Europe...and you guys didn't believe me.
Didn't you see what has just happened in France?

You are talking like many were about the Nazis in 1937/8, the 'anti-Hitler propaganda' - the rise of popularism is because of the failure to ensure the lower and middle classes are looked after. It will be short lived because the likes of Le Penn will be useless if given power.

 

[Estro Felino]

Do you got any link to that?

It's sufficient that you read the articles in French...how many people are disgusted by the pro-war declarations that Macron has been making for weeks, lately.
It seems to me that obeying to Biden's agenda has led to the political suicide of the French government.

 

[Magic Man]

We disagree on that point. We can see things like DEI influencing all aspects of universities and corporations and government. Same with gender ideology making it's way into our legal system. We see how the extreme left is steadily attacking free speech...

This isn't a matter of disagreement. There's no such thing as "gender ideology". These references you make are just buzzwords promoted by right-wing narratives and often propaganda.

The left is not attacking free speech at all. DEI is simply an effort by some to improve diversity, equity and inclusion. Trans rights are being promoted by people on the left and opposed by people on the right.

Both "sides" are powerful.

No, the far right in America is mainstream. It's becoming more popular in other countries too, as evidenced by these elections. There isn't much of a "left" in America, and the far left has zero power or influence. In some other countries, there is a strong Left, but that seems to be eroding with the rise of the far right.

 

[Estro Felino]

You are talking like many were about the Nazis in 1937/8, the 'anti-Hitler propaganda' - the rise of popularism is because of the failure to ensure the lower and middle classes are looked after. It will be short lived because the likes of Le Pen will be useless if given power.

I wouldn't be so sure.
Soon this disgusting, elitist EU will collapse...under the weight of farmers' protests, and anti-war protests.
The people are sick and tired of paying for higher prices in fuel and in other goods and services.

 

[icehorse]

@Magic Man - We'll have to agree to disagree. I say this because we've been over this ground before, and you still lead by conflating the message with the messenger. It's not worth my time to debate at such low quality level.

have a fine day.

 

[Stevicus]

That is why the king appointed Mussolini as PM because he was the lesser of two evils: it was between him and a Bolshevik revolution in Italy.
But when the Fascism ended, Socialists, Communists and ChristianDemocrats worked together in great harmony.
There never was a Cold War in Italy, since Moscow has never been perceived as a threat. After all, Italian Socialists governed together with the ChristianDemocrats for years. A Russian city is called Tol'atti, after Italian Communist Togliatti.
In the US Marxism has always been a threat to the capitalists' interests.

Yes, the monied interests chose to side with anti-communists against communists, for the most part. This was even true in other parts of the world, which is why the U.S. backed the Shah in Iran, Somoza in Nicaragua, Pinochet in Chile, etc. They would have even supported right-wing regimes in Germany and Japan, but they were seen as too extremely nationalistic to the point where they far too treacherous and aggressive to be trusted.

The Nazis had told us that the war would last few months...few weeks.
If we had known that they were planning to conquer Moscow, Italy would have never joined.

Italy joined only after it was clear the Germans were winning big time in France. So, they helped Germany to invade France because they wanted to annex some French territory bordering Italy. Then, Germany helped Italy when Italy had trouble in Greece.

Honestly I find all this suspicious. The timing.
After all...the Americans just took Southern Italy and kinda left Northern Italy to the Nazis. Maybe on purpose?
The US army was invincible so I don't understand why they didn't take Northern Italy as well...

The Western Allies were under strong pressure from the Soviets to open up a second front. But the Germans had strong defenses along the western coastline, while it took years before the Allies could build a strong enough force for an amphibious invasion. Italy was considered the "soft underbelly" and could be invaded with less force. I believe Churchill once proposed the idea of invading Greece and moving up into the Balkans, which would have thwarted any Soviet moves into that area. In Italy, they had to deal with one mountain range after another up a narrow peninsula. After capturing Rome, D-Day occurred, and the Allies put all of their efforts into invading across France and into Germany. To move further up Italy would have made no sense, since they would have been stopped at the Alps anyway. The whole idea was to force Germany's capitulation as soon as possible.

Germany still held large swaths of territory at the time of their surrender, including all of Denmark and Norway, northern Italy, sections of Czechoslovakia, Bavaria, and Austria, and even some cities along the French Atlantic coast which were bypassed by the Allies. Of course, the Germans ultimately withdrew from those territories.

 

[Magic Man]

@Magic Man - We'll have to agree to disagree. I say this because we've been over this ground before, and you still lead by conflating the message with the messenger. It's not worth my time to debate at such low quality level.

have a fine day.

No, I just point out that the extremists on the right have grown immensely in popularity in the past decade, while the left has diminished. Especially in America, where the extreme right is now the mainstream, and the left has virtually no power, and the extreme left has none.

I agree, though, that you debating at your low-quality level is a waste of our time.

 

[Magic Man]

I wouldn't be so sure.
Soon this disgusting, elitist EU will collapse...under the weight of farmers' protests, and anti-war protests.
The people are sick and tired of paying for higher prices in fuel and in other goods and services.

That might happen, but not through electing right-wing governments. They will only exacerbate the "elites" problem and the problems of the general population. A lot of people are tired of paying high prices for fuel and other goods and services, but electing people who support policies that drive those prices up won't help.

 

[F1fan]

It's interesting that Socialism and Fascism are identical down the road.

National Socialist Party?

That might be Soviet type of Socialism, or Venezuela type Socialism. It isn't Northern Europe type Socialism, nor the type that Republicans and Democrats and Independents support in the USA. It's just that democrats want to expand certain rights to citizens that private business and conservatives oppose for tax arguments, namely universal healthcare. If MAGA gets massively defeated in 2024 and democrats win over government, let's hope that there can be sound legislation to fix the immigration problems (that MAGAs are blocking) and we can expand healthcare to everyone, which could be paid for by adjusting tax rates on the most wealthy. Will republicans scream? Yes, they will be concerned about the excessive wealth of the rich as they ignore than many millions of citizens who can't access healthcare. And of course, the expanded healthcare will include legislation that makes abortion access a right in all 50 states and territories.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

But the voters whose feet you are kissing voted for the elite technocrats.

@Altfish, I wouldn’t waste my breath on this one. They seem to frequently confuse socialism with fascism.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

Socialism is a left-wing ideology. It does not at align with right-wing nationalism.

Yep but @Estro Felino is more like a national socialist. You know, like the n.a.z.i party (short for national socialist workers party)

 

[Estro Felino]

That might happen, but not through electing right-wing governments. They will only exacerbate the "elites" problem and the problems of the general population. A lot of people are tired of paying high prices for fuel and other goods and services, but electing people who support policies that drive those prices up won't help.

Do you know why the French Revolution was possible?
Because the Army joined the people.
After all, soldiers have to pay for the fuel too.

 

[Koldo]

I don't see why Lula should have received someone like Zelenskyy.

He receives someone like Putin.

He would have no problem talking to him.

Such as?
Give me an example...you know...I can understand macroeconomics...

Limited public spending.

Novo arcabouço fiscal – Wikipédia, a enciclopédia livre.

 

[Magic Man]

Do you know why the French Revolution was possible?
Because the Army joined the people.
After all, soldiers have to pay for the fuel too.

Is this supposed to be relevant? If so, can you explain why you think it is?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Uh, no, they're not.

Yes they are. Both are equally oppressive and authoritarian.