Evangelicals reckoning: Donald Trump & future of our faith

[IndigoChild5559]

Some have seen too many political threads on RF. But I've asserted that they're intertwined for better and worse. This is one example of why I have my opinion.

This thread starts with the perspective of the role evangelicals have played in supporting and enabling Trump but it can apply elsewhere including the role extremist Muslims play in blasphemy cases, fanatical Hindus are playing in India, the role of extreme right wing Jews play in the middle-east and so forth.

I'm far from being an evangelical Christian, but I do agree with his analysis because I've seen them kowtow to Trump to get anti-abortion, anti-gay rhetoric and conservative economic policies they support while ignoring the clear message in the two greatest commandments and the Sermon on the Mount.

I've bold faced a couple of sentences that to me said it all.

Evangelicals face a reckoning: Donald Trump and the future of our faith

First, far too many tolerated egregious behavior.

The past half decade has offered near daily examples of people co-opting the gospel for sinful ends. Racism, nationalism, sexism, and host of other sins have found purchase within the evangelical movement in both overt and subtle expressions. Many have been able to dismiss these examples as outliers that did not truly represent the evangelical movement. We have long since exhausted this excuse.

As evangelicals, we have to stop saying this isn't who we are. This is who we are; these are our besetting sins.

Second, far too many failed to live up to their promise of speaking truth to power.

During the 2016 election, and at many points since, many evangelicals justified their full-throated support by promising to be a check on Trump’s character. What has become apparent is that this promise was hollow.

Too few were willing to speak out regularly and often couched their criticism so much it lacked any weight. When evangelicals finally had access to the White House, they seemed unable or unwilling to use their prophetic voice to speak truth to power.
...
Will we look inside and repent when needed, or will we double down? Every political and cultural instinct will pull us to the latter but God calls us to the former. But into this temptation we hear the words of Jesus: “For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul?” (Matthew 16:26).

We have reached a reckoning. What comes next will reveal where our trust truly lies.

I have never understood the evangelical support of Trump. He is clearly a person of terrible moral character (I'm being very nice here, I actually think he's a dangerous psychopath, but that's not as obvious to eveyrone). If any democratic candidate had done or said the things trump has, they would jump all over him.

I suspect its more than just the gay issue and abortion. I have very traditional values too, and that is not enough to pull me over to Trump. I think that, simply, evangelicals are white middle class suburbanites that are conflating conservative politics with Christianity. They can't imagine a Christian being a socialist, even though the book of Acts talks about Christians pooling their money and sharing alike.

Their pews are filled with conspiracy believers -- its encouraged, probably because their own religious faith spend so much time obsessing about the last days conspiracy of the antichrist. They are really sitting ducks for Trumps conspiracy lies.

I'm speaking in generalizations, of course. There are of course those evangelicals that aren't clones.

 

[Jacques de Molay]

There's NO contradiction between being a devout Christian (an "evangelical," if you prefer), and supporting Donald Trump.

I've personally found it infuriating that so many Christians think there is, for reasons that are, in my honest opinion, quite Pharisaical.

Is Donald Trump a perfect human being? NO. Not by any stretch of the imagination. But please...Let all the perfect human beings on this forum please stand up and be recognized!

A cursory review of the Bible shows how God regularly used deeply imperfect human beings to enact His will on earth. The best example is King David - an adulterer, a murderer (by proxy, with Uriah), and a terrible, absentee father whose own sons rebelled against him...Yet he was a "man after God's own heart."

President Trump has, arguably, done more for religious liberty than any President in US history. Per the Des Moines Register: (Trump might be the most pro-religion president ever)

"He is a deeply flawed man. But Trump does have one moral quality that deserves admiration: He keeps his promises.

During the 2016 campaign, Trump pledged to defend religious liberty, stand up for unborn life and appoint conservative jurists to the Supreme Court and federal appeals courts. And he has done exactly what he promised. The abortion-rights lobby NARAL complains that Trump has been “relentless” on these fronts, declaring his administration “the worst ... that we’ve ever seen.” That is more important to most Christian conservatives than what the president may have done with a porn actress more than 10 years ago."

In addition:

"The president is moving at record pace to fill the federal appeals courts with young conservative judges who will protect life and religious freedom for decades..."

"Trump ordered the creation of the Conscience and Religious Freedom Division at the Department of Health and Human Services to protect the civil rights of doctors, nurses and other health-care workers who refuse to take part in procedures such as abortion, reversing an Obama-era policy that required them to do so. And his Justice Department issued 25-page guidance to federal agencies instructing them to protect the religious liberty in the execution of federal law."

Yet, amazingly, so many Christians think he's not worthy of their support?

The abortion issue ALONE should make it impossible (my opinion) for any Christian to support any candidate who does not support a Pro-Life platform. yet this critical issue is often brushed aside, for the most bizarre and trivial reasons. "Sure, I'm against abortion...But Trump is soooooo icky! And his Tweets are soooo rude!"

Seriously..?

Christians often prefer the mild, soft-spoken man, like Obama, who conversely was a political enemy of religious freedom:

"The Obama administration was trying to force the Little Sisters of the Poor to violate their religious conscience and facilitate payment for abortifacient drugs and other contraceptives. During oral arguments in the Obergefell v. Hodges case, President Barack Obama’s solicitor general told the Supreme Court that churches and universities could lose their tax-exempt status if they opposed same-sex marriage."

Christianity in the USA is at a crossroads. Too many Christians are swayed by clever words, as opposed to substantive arguments.

There's nothing Trump actually did during his Presidency that violates Christian ethics. Much of what is believed he did is false.

 

[Jacques de Molay]

I have never understood the evangelical support of Trump. He is clearly a person of terrible moral character (I'm being very nice here, I actually think he's a dangerous psychopath, but that's not as obvious to eveyrone). If any democratic candidate had done or said the things trump has, they would jump all over him.

I suspect its more than just the gay issue and abortion. I have very traditional values too, and that is not enough to pull me over to Trump. I think that, simply, evangelicals are white middle class suburbanites that are conflating conservative politics with Christianity. They can't imagine a Christian being a socialist, even though the book of Acts talks about Christians pooling their money and sharing alike.

Their pews are filled with conspiracy believers -- its encouraged, probably because their own religious faith spend so much time obsessing about the last days conspiracy of the antichrist. They are really sitting ducks for Trumps conspiracy lies.

I'm speaking in generalizations, of course. There are of course those evangelicals that aren't clones.

"He is clearly a person of terrible moral character (I'm being very nice here, I actually think he's a dangerous psychopath, but that's not as obvious to eveyrone)"

It's not obvious because it's a false statement. A more appropriate choice for a sociopath (the better descriptor) in the White House would be the pathological liar and serial abuser of women, Bill Clinton.

"I think that, simply, evangelicals are white middle class suburbanites that are conflating conservative politics with Christianity. They can't imagine a Christian being a socialist, even though the book of Acts talks about Christians pooling their money and sharing alike."

This is a very common misinterpretation of scripture. There's nothing remotely similar between Christianity and socialism.

These Christians you describe VOLUNTARILY chose to share their belongings amongst fellow Christians. They were not forced to assign portions of their possessions or wealth with an undefined population segment by a remote, all-powerful government.

There's rarely anything voluntary about socialism. And most socialist governments are historically unfriendly towards religion.

 

[Jacques de Molay]

I don't know. It's hard to be wrong when you're in a righteousness cult.

What is this "cult" you speak of?

 

[Jacques de Molay]

I am curious what "egregious behavior" you are referring to. (Not trying to argue at this point, I honestly do not know what you are referring to. I would like to understand the basis for the claim.)

Good question.

IMO, this complaint generally comes from dedicated Trump-haters.

 

[Jacques de Molay]

Many evangelical have an apocalyptic world view, that the world is about the enter the end times.
Everything that happens gets filtered through the lens that Satan is trying to take control of the world via media, politics, other religion and so on. Everyone who is not in their camp is somehow complicit in this.

You can see how they have no way to connect with reality when everyone they encounter and everything they hear that is from outside their world view is probably evil or complicit with these attempts. Facts that go contrary to their perception are lies from the devil.

One would hope that the events of last week would cause them to walk back from the precipice and indeed some seem to have done so. I hope this trend continues.

"Many evangelical have an apocalyptic world view, that the world is about the enter the end times."

False. Not "many." Certainly some, but this is a common misperception about Christians.

"Facts that go contrary to their perception are lies from the devil."

One could easily apply this statement to those on the political left. Simply leave out the word "devil."

"One would hope that the events of last week would cause them to walk back from the precipice and indeed some seem to have done so."

Did the events of last Summer - rampant rioting and destruction in cities across America, spearheaded by the armies of the Left (ANTIFA and BLM) - cause Democrats to walk back from the "precipice"? I don't think so...

 

[Wandering Monk]

"Many evangelical have an apocalyptic world view, that the world is about the enter the end times."

False. Not "many." Certainly some, but this is a common misperception about Christians.

"Facts that go contrary to their perception are lies from the devil."

One could easily apply this statement to those on the political left. Simply leave out the word "devil."

"One would hope that the events of last week would cause them to walk back from the precipice and indeed some seem to have done so."

Did the events of last Summer - rampant rioting and destruction in cities across America, spearheaded by the armies of the Left (ANTIFA and BLM) - cause Democrats to walk back from the "precipice"? I don't think so...

Vast Majority of Pastors See Signs of End Times in Current Events - LifeWay Research

 

[Jacques de Molay]

We ought not to take up a collective condemnation of evangelicals.

Sider, who edited the book, is a longtime evangelical figure and an advocate for biblical solutions to social and economic injustices. He has published over 40 books, including Rich Christians in an Age of Hunger.

Sider said that his call is for white evangelicals to evaluate evangelicalism’s “biblically balanced” agenda before they vote in 2020.
The book, titled, The Spiritual Danger of Donald Trump: 30 Evangelical Christians on Justice, Truth, and Moral Integrity, also warns of the damage done to how Americans perceive evangelicals as a result of their alliance with Trump's messaging.
30 evangelical leaders beg Christians to rethink their support for Trump in new book - Raw Story - Celebrating 16 Years of Independent Journalism

We ought not to take up a collective condemnation of any group.

 

[Jacques de Molay]

Vast Majority of Pastors See Signs of End Times in Current Events - LifeWay Research

Can you define "Pastor"?

This term is also deeply misunderstood, even by many Christians.

A "Pastor" is supposed to be an Elder, and a teacher. Too often, it's interchangeable with "Preacher," which is generally a distinctly different role.

Additionally, there's often NO criteria for being a "Pastor" (Actually, the Bible is pretty clear on this topic, but many Christian denominations ignore this, completely.) Basically, anyone can start a church and call himself (or herself) a "Pastor."

This is quite common with Pentecostal denominations, but not as common with more mainstream denominations.

So...WHO filled out this survey? What are their qualifications for interpreting scripture and teaching it?

Point-of-fact, NO ONE knows when the end days will come...The Bible is clear that only God knows. So anyone who says they know is either deluded, or lying.

 

[allright]

Voting for Trump was the lesser of two evils

 

[allright]

Many evangelicals also hate the pope. They think Catholicism is about idol-worship.

The Popes a great guy if you dont mind protecting child molesters

 

[Jacques de Molay]

OK, I see what you mean. I have no problem with him to "burn down" one of the corrupt establishment parties, and I think the claim about "white supremacists" and "conspiracy theorists" is fake news, but that is another discussion.

Trump followed through on his promise not to start a new stupid foreign war like Iraq, Libya, Syria etc., and if these "evangelicals" are wedded to warmongering as you say, I can see how they are disappointed.

Thanks for clarifying.

NICELY DONE!

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Yet he was a "man after God's own heart."

And like most politicians, that claim was full of it.

 

[Jacques de Molay]

And like most politicians, that claim was full of it.

Ummm...How so?

That was not a politician's quote. It's a quote from scripture.

 

[PureX]

The Popes a great guy if you dont mind protecting child molesters

I think you way over-estimate his ability to change the system he's a part of.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

'Mentally disturbed' Trump will only become more dangerous as he struggles to tolerate reality: psychiatrist

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Ummm...How so?

That was not a politician's quote. It's a quote from scripture.

Kings aren’t politicians?

 

[Jacques de Molay]

Kings aren’t politicians?

God is not a politician.

It's a quote from scripture. It's describing a King (David). Not the same thing.

And Kings are not politicians.

 

[pearl]

We ought not to take up a collective condemnation of any group.

Absolutely

 

[Colt]

Some have seen too many political threads on RF. But I've asserted that they're intertwined for better and worse. This is one example of why I have my opinion.

This thread starts with the perspective of the role evangelicals have played in supporting and enabling Trump but it can apply elsewhere including the role extremist Muslims play in blasphemy cases, fanatical Hindus are playing in India, the role of extreme right wing Jews play in the middle-east and so forth.

I'm far from being an evangelical Christian, but I do agree with his analysis because I've seen them kowtow to Trump to get anti-abortion, anti-gay rhetoric and conservative economic policies they support while ignoring the clear message in the two greatest commandments and the Sermon on the Mount.

I've bold faced a couple of sentences that to me said it all.

Evangelicals face a reckoning: Donald Trump and the future of our faith

First, far too many tolerated egregious behavior.

The past half decade has offered near daily examples of people co-opting the gospel for sinful ends. Racism, nationalism, sexism, and host of other sins have found purchase within the evangelical movement in both overt and subtle expressions. Many have been able to dismiss these examples as outliers that did not truly represent the evangelical movement. We have long since exhausted this excuse.

As evangelicals, we have to stop saying this isn't who we are. This is who we are; these are our besetting sins.

Second, far too many failed to live up to their promise of speaking truth to power.

During the 2016 election, and at many points since, many evangelicals justified their full-throated support by promising to be a check on Trump’s character. What has become apparent is that this promise was hollow.

Too few were willing to speak out regularly and often couched their criticism so much it lacked any weight. When evangelicals finally had access to the White House, they seemed unable or unwilling to use their prophetic voice to speak truth to power.
...
Will we look inside and repent when needed, or will we double down? Every political and cultural instinct will pull us to the latter but God calls us to the former. But into this temptation we hear the words of Jesus: “For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul?” (Matthew 16:26).

We have reached a reckoning. What comes next will reveal where our trust truly lies.

Trump was a little rude but his policies were what conservatives believe in. The Left doesn't like ANY Republicans so if your premise is that we need to get the Left to like us now then fat chance!