Every living entity comes from another living entity

[camanintx]

we can start with the existence of information. Information is a separate entity from both matter and energy, it exists, it exists within life, and within the universe.

Information is nothing more than a way of quantitizing the patterns we observe within matter and energy. Information can exist separate from matter and energy no more than a picture can exist without the paint or sound without air. If you think the music on your CD exists separate from the material the CD is made from, just try playing it without the CD some time.

 

[PolyHedral]

it can be transmitted by matter and energy, but is a separate entity. It exists, follows the thermo conservation laws, etc. etc.

Non-thermodynamic information (that is, information which doesn't directly describe the universe) isn't conserved at all. It can be created and destroyed easily.

 

[Firepac]

According to the "scientists" life comes from matter. I would like to know what evidence they have? I believe that no such living entity has ever been found naturally nor have they ever been able to produce one artificially. Although every living entity ever observed comes from another living entity, still they insist that live can emerge from matter. Quite strange.

And all living entity has been observed to be made up of matter. So what's your point again?

 

[Photonic]

it's not removing anything - it's rearranging it. The mass remains the same. A CD with, or without data on it remains the same - information has no mass - it is not made out of matter.

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sound is another immaterial entity - it is one form of information. Sound is not made out of material. Air with sound waves has the same mass as air without sound waves. Sound is more than just energy too - you can have a high T high energy air with no sound - it is possible to construct two systems, each with the same amount of mass and energy, where one has sound, and one does not - so sound is not mere energy - so sound is not mass, is not energy, it is immaterial, but it exists.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Then we can talk about if matter exists. What is matter? as we look into the atom we see that the atom is mostly comprised of empty space - comprised of nothingness... the electrons, what are these? there is some sort of potential cloud around the nucleus, but you can't pinpoint where it is, or what it is - consider the double slit experiment ... when we touch something, we are not really touching it - we are just feeling forces/charges - but there is no actual substance that is there... when you look deeply enough, none of it really exists as a substance - it's all made up of immaterial entities like charges and information.

:/

Sound is a sequence of waves of pressure that propagates through compressible media such as air or water. (Sound can propagate through solids as well, but there are additional modes of propagation). During propagation, waves can be reflected, refracted, or attenuated by the medium.[2]

 

[idea]

:/

Sound is a sequence of waves of pressure that propagates through compressible media such as air or water. (Sound can propagate through solids as well, but there are additional modes of propagation). During propagation, waves can be reflected, refracted, or attenuated by the medium.[2]

yes, it is a form of information - the waves are created from strings moving, or trees falling - and information of the movement is carried through the air or other medium in the form of waves - but it is information, not mass (just moves in mass), not energy (just moves with energy), it is a separate non-material entity.

the double slit experiment - is it a wave or particle? again, this shows that everything is made of information in it's roots.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMqtiFX_IQQ
Why does a single electron create wave interference patterns? because it is a little chunk of info, and carries with it the info from what it last touched. Why does the electron act as a particle after being observed? because in order to observe it, you have to touch it - and by touching it, you send it along with a different piece of information.

 

[idea]

Non-thermodynamic information (that is, information which doesn't directly describe the universe) isn't conserved at all. It can be created and destroyed easily.

non-thermo info, such as the tale of sleeping beauty, or someone's emotions about somthing - things of this nature? But we are all connected, everything influences everything else - stories about distressed princesses influence little girls which in turn defines mating patterns etc. etc. I can't think of any form of information that is non-thermodynamic, that does not have lasting influences, that would not be conserved.

 

[idea]

Information is nothing more than a way of quantitizing the patterns we observe within matter and energy. Information can exist separate from matter and energy no more than a picture can exist without the paint or sound without air. If you think the music on your CD exists separate from the material the CD is made from, just try playing it without the CD some time.

I would say that matter and energy are at the mercy of / and products of / information rather than the other way around.

 

[PolyHedral]

non-thermo info, such as the tale of sleeping beauty, or someone's emotions about somthing - things of this nature? But we are all connected, everything influences everything else - stories about distressed princesses influence little girls which in turn defines mating patterns etc. etc. I can't think of any form of information that is non-thermodynamic, that does not have lasting influences, that would not be conserved.

But Sleeping Beauty was not built out of pre-existing components. It was conjured from nothing.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I would say that matter and energy are at the mercy of / and products of / information rather than the other way around.

I'd say American cheese could hardly be considered a real cheese.

 

[idea]

I'd say American cheese could hardly be considered a real cheese.

Here's some American cheese - or at least something that is "fake"

KarmaTube: The Placebo Effect

so placebo's are "fake", right? The only thing they have is information - but information is all that many people need - information creates physical realities - information transforms and controls the matter.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Here's some American cheese - or at least something that is "fake"

KarmaTube: The Placebo Effect

so placebo's are "fake", right? The only thing they have is information - but information is all that many people need - information creates physical realities - information transforms and controls the matter.

This makes an incredible amount of sense when I don't analyze it too closely.

 

[shawn001]

That's like saying sound does not exist because it travels through air...

wow... no one else here has had any classes on information theory? ... o well...

anyone want to buy some blank CD's from me for $20? sounds like everyone thinks the blank ones are worth as much as the ones with music on them - if you really think that, I'll sell you a bunch of CD's...

LOL

Sound exist with no atmosphere, like on the moon?

Sound exists because of energy and vibrations in the atmosphere.

Energy In The Air: How Sound Is Made

CRASH! BANG! Did you hear that sound? It was made by air vibrating. The same is true for sounds made by musical instruments. The difference between NOISE and MUSIC is that musical sounds are organized into patterns that have pitch and rhythm. Noise is just random, disorganized sounds. Sounds are made and travel in the same way whether they are musical sounds or noise. ​

 

[camanintx]

I would say that matter and energy are at the mercy of / and products of / information rather than the other way around.

Ever seen any information that existed without matter or energy?

 

[camanintx]

Here's some American cheese - or at least something that is "fake"

KarmaTube: The Placebo Effect

so placebo's are "fake", right? The only thing they have is information - but information is all that many people need - information creates physical realities - information transforms and controls the matter.

And where do you think that information exists?

 

[shawn001]

Does a placebo effect, effect a rock?

 

[shawn001]

yes, it is a form of information - the waves are created from strings moving, or trees falling - and information of the movement is carried through the air or other medium in the form of waves - but it is information, not mass (just moves in mass), not energy (just moves with energy), it is a separate non-material entity.

the double slit experiment - is it a wave or particle? again, this shows that everything is made of information in it's roots.
[youtube]UMqtiFX_IQQ[/youtube]
Double Slit Experiment - The Strangeness Of Quantum Mechanics - YouTube
Why does a single electron create wave interference patterns? because it is a little chunk of info, and carries with it the info from what it last touched. Why does the electron act as a particle after being observed? because in order to observe it, you have to touch it - and by touching it, you send it along with a different piece of information.

A photon is a packet of energy.

Even empty space in a vacuum has energy and virtual particles pop in and out of existence.

How would information be stored without matter or energy?

 

[Photonic]

yes, it is a form of information - the waves are created from strings moving, or trees falling - and information of the movement is carried through the air or other medium in the form of waves - but it is information, not mass (just moves in mass), not energy (just moves with energy), it is a separate non-material entity.

the double slit experiment - is it a wave or particle? again, this shows that everything is made of information in it's roots.
[youtube]UMqtiFX_IQQ[/youtube]
Double Slit Experiment - The Strangeness Of Quantum Mechanics - YouTube
Why does a single electron create wave interference patterns? because it is a little chunk of info, and carries with it the info from what it last touched. Why does the electron act as a particle after being observed? because in order to observe it, you have to touch it - and by touching it, you send it along with a different piece of information.

Thanks for supporting my argument, I guess?

 

[idea]

LOL

Sound exist with no atmosphere, like on the moon?

Sound exists because of energy and vibrations in the atmosphere.

Energy In The Air: How Sound Is Made

CRASH! BANG! Did you hear that sound? It was made by air vibrating. The same is true for sounds made by musical instruments. The difference between NOISE and MUSIC is that musical sounds are organized into patterns that have pitch and rhythm. Noise is just random, disorganized sounds. Sounds are made and travel in the same way whether they are musical sounds or noise. ​

all sounds are created by motion - sounds carry information about their origin.

energy - like temperature - is random vibrations of molecules, you will hear no sound while standing in air with randomly moving (but energetic) molecules. (a hot summer night, vs. a cold winter night - both are quiet, even though the hot summer air is vibrating all over the place).

 

[idea]

Ever seen any information that existed without matter or energy?

have you ever seen matter or energy exist without information?

chicken or the egg, which comes first?

 

[idea]

And where do you think that information exists?

within our minds.