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Everybody Knows...

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
That doesn't make a lot of sense, the demoKKKrats back then weren't liberals/progressives.
I think it's just dumb to point out the Southern Democrats because they did join the Republicans in response to civil rights and ending Jim Crow laws. Today people mock Democrats for that, but they seem to just be utterly oblivious or completely momentarily blanking out the fact that those racist Democrats went crawling to the Republican party.
 

McBell

Unbound
In my opinion, "everybody" knows -- at least deep down most people know -- that Trump will most likely be a disaster as a president, but hope, partisanship, a lack of discernment, etc obscure the truth for many.

If you disagree with this, I'd be curious to know what you base your optimism on? What do you see in Trump that indicates to you he'd be at least a mediocre president, and not an outright disaster?

I do not "know" he will be a disaster.
However, for better or worse, I strongly suspect he is going to seriously shake up the established norm.
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Mike Pence is very much that way. They are, in reality, a very major voting block. They may not be a population majority, but politically they are loud and powerful.

Again, there are some just like there are full on super-libtards on the left. There are nuts on both sides of the fence. Evolution science is pretty dicey, at least if you really know anything about it. It's very hard to sequence DNA off stuff that is older than 30,000 years old so much of what is claimed to be evolution is just a logical fallacy waiting to happen. :D For stuff newer we have a really good idea, however. Without being able to sequence DNA, you're just guessing based on physiological comparisons and that can be REALLY problematic. :D
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
Again, there are some just like there are full on super-libtards on the left. There are nuts on both sides of the fence.
That's true, but the quantities aren't close. I'm assuming you're referring to college students? College students always protest and speak out...been happening for centuries.
Evolution science is pretty dicey, at least if you really know anything about it.
Evolution is fact. Look around, it's happening right now. There's more proof of evolution than gravity.
I hope you don't think oil (fossil fuel) corporations are telling the truth when it comes to their pollution and the climate?
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Evolution is fact. Look around, it's happening right now. There's more proof of evolution than gravity.
I hope you don't think oil (fossil fuel) corporations are telling the truth when it comes to their pollution and the climate?

Uh, re-read the post. I have no debate that evolution occurs, it's just some of the information is like one giant false cause fallacy.

As far as pollution, that's a different issue completely from climate change, imho. The largest thing that will affect us that way is always going to be solar weather, and it will do more than we can ever do -- and do it faster, lol. As far as pollution, that's a health issue even without bogus climate claims.
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
Uh, re-read the post. I have no debate that evolution occurs, it's just some of the information is like one giant false cause fallacy.

As far as pollution, that's a different issue completely from climate change, imho. The largest thing that will affect us that way is always going to be solar weather, and it will do more than we can ever do -- and do it faster, lol. As far as pollution, that's a health issue even without bogus climate claims.
Climate change is influenced by the fossil fuel industry. Excessive CO2 in the atmosphere is creating a greenhouse effect warming the oceans and land. The fossil fuel industry are the culprits.

I'm not worried about solar weather.
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Climate change is influenced by the fossil fuel industry. Excessive CO2 in the atmosphere is creating a greenhouse effect warming the oceans and land. The fossil fuel industry are the culprits.

I'm not worried about solar weather.

Solar flares and gamma ray bursts are possibly far more dangerous, and all we can do about those is tuck our heads between our legs and burn. Kinda depressing, now that I think about it. :eek:

The greenhouse gas that matters the most is actually water vapor, and nothing is going to change that. You can go as green as you want and nothing changes, but the air quality via reduction in pollution; even this has to be done carefully as electric vehicles are largely being charged by coal and make a swimming pool of toxic soup each. (In conventional cars you have the choice to drive them less, so basically the impact of them is actually LOWER if you are prudent.) Dump the pollution in the ground or the air and it's all still going to kill you.

Absolutely nothing you do will reduce the water vapor, so that's why it's a load of crap. CO2 only constitutes 0.04% of the atmosphere, so it is basically irrelevant.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
I do not "know" he will be a disaster.
However, for better or worse, I strongly suspect he is going to seriously shake up the established norm.
You mean he claimed he would do that but couldn't even drain the swamp. If the norm is capitalist cronies making more money off human health and oil then its business as usual.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Solar flares and gamma ray bursts are possibly far more dangerous, and all we can do about those is tuck our heads between our legs and burn. Kinda depressing, now that I think about it. :eek:

The greenhouse gas that matters the most is actually water vapor, and nothing is going to change that. You can go as green as you want and nothing changes, but the air quality via reduction in pollution; even this has to be done carefully as electric vehicles are largely being charged by coal and make a swimming pool of toxic soup each. (In conventional cars you have the choice to drive them less, so basically the impact of them is actually LOWER if you are prudent.) Dump the pollution in the ground or the air and it's all still going to kill you.

Absolutely nothing you do will reduce the water vapor, so that's why it's a load of crap. CO2 only constitutes 0.04% of the atmosphere, so it is basically irrelevant.
It doesn't matter to what extent water vapor contributes to Earth's average temp.
The issue is about changes in the atmosphere which will cause an increase
over & above what would otherwise be. If this increase raises temperatures &
sea levels, we're looking at massive shifts in population & agricultural centers.
There will be turmoil.
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
It doesn't matter to what extent water vapor contributes to Earth's average temp.
The issue is about changes in the atmosphere which will cause an increase
over & above what would otherwise be. If this increase raises temperatures &
sea levels, we're looking at massive shifts in population & agricultural centers.
There will be turmoil.

They're going to increase anyway, there is never a point in history where the sea was not raising sans the ice age. Antarctica and Greenland combined have enough ice melt to bring us 65 meters more water level, lol. Of course, that assumes a 100% melt-off (probably not likely). If you think that's bad, well it's rose about 30m since the last ice age, if I recall. :D So we are talking flooding in say extremely long time frames, but we'll all be dead and hopefully our future progeny have the sense to build on higher ground. :)

Anyway, I think we should control these things as pollutants. Unfortunately for most of the people here this is one of my nerd subjects, and I assure you about 90% of the global warming / climate change data is cooked. I don't take that tack lightly, in fact I find it frustrating. :D Modern climate scientists are lying to keep their jobs and funding, and the proof is in things they do -- under-reporting glacial ice gains and movements, measuring temp changes that are inside their margins of error, and setting the goal-posts to pander to their biases. Even the most capable of scientists are able to do poor science, if no one challenges their assertions.

To go further would just be diverting from the OP - it's probably another thread, so that's where I'll leave this.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Are there are few people on the right that believe that way? Undoubtedly, but it is a minority.
Mike Pence is very much that way. They are, in reality, a very major voting block.
The right isn't anti-science either, just anti-pseudo science like climate change, gender studies, and reforming what they believe to be psychosis into identities.
They deny evolution, Mike Pence has heavily downplayed the risk of smoking even going as far to say it won't kill you. As for climate change and gender studies, those aren't pseudo sciences. And trying to "reform" psychosis into an identity doesn't even make sense - if someone suffers from a form of psychosis, they are psychotic. There isn't really much you can do to bypass that fact.
If the economy is bad wages are bad, so are jobs, and as a result employers cannot distribute better benefits.
They could, but they don't. Their companies grow, stock prices rises, Wall Street is up, and money is flowing. But it's blowing upward. However, that is of little concern for neo-Libertarian free market Capitalists, who often see the big numbers of the big banks and big investors as the system working. From a Humanitarian perspective, one that advances the good of society rather than the wealth of a few, this is a very major concern. Historically, it does tend to lead to great civil unrest, revolt, and even rebellion. But when Capitalism is the goal, Economic numbers have improved substantially under Obama. The gains in Wall Street alone speak volumes to this. The immoral gains of corporate executives at the expense of the working class, however, which when it came to job losses, was only a problem until people started working again. Were we are at, it pretty much depends on if you think the wealthy who have succeeded in the system should reap the benefits due to claims of ownership, or do we elevate society as a whole? There is tons of research that strongly supports the idea that employees who are invested in and taken care of and are happy where are they work are far more loyal, dedicated, and much better workers and far more productive than those who feel like they are just a cog in a machine. Unfortunately, law is not based on fact and evidence.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Evolution science is pretty dicey, at least if you really know anything about it. It's very hard to sequence DNA off stuff that is older than 30,000 years old so much of what is claimed to be evolution is just a logical fallacy waiting to happen. :D For stuff newer we have a really good idea, however. Without being able to sequence DNA, you're just guessing based on physiological comparisons and that can be REALLY problematic.
Evolution is one of the most well understood theories in all of science. If you think DNA sequencing and physiological comparisons are the only evidence for evolution, you have not even scratched the tip of the ice berg of evidence that supports evolution. And what makes it so well understood, unlike something like gravity, is there is evidence all around us in support of it.
Again, there are some just like there are full on super-libtards on the left.
Yes, but, however, there are more Conservatives in America than Liberals. Fox News gets more ratings. The Vice President believes religion should be the basis of state legislation.
That's true, but the quantities aren't close. I'm assuming you're referring to college students? College students always protest and speak out...been happening for centuries.
I'm calling it "butt hurt hippy syndrome." They're mad because they failed, and mocking people who were doing the same things they were. Except they had flowers and just too much loud, flashy, bright colors. At least they got to enjoy the good drugs.
 

RedDragon94

Love everyone, meditate often
The thing is, large corporations employ most people, and while their executive's profits have skyrocketed, little has went to anyone else.
Don't more people work for large corporations because there are more jobs than in small business?
It is. It also includes spending. Imports and exports. Share values and interest rates. It's many things, but people having money is more important than where they got it, and as long as money is circulating things are good. There can only be care when we bother to point out people on welfare who can't afford basics, jobs that don't pay their worth/value, sub-livable wages, wealth distribution, and ask where these gains have gone. But, that is people, not economics.
But the economy definitely has an effect on those things.
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
Solar flares and gamma ray bursts are possibly far more dangerous, and all we can do about those is tuck our heads between our legs and burn. Kinda depressing, now that I think about it. :eek:
How many times has this happened to the earth in history? Wiping out civilization like an asteroid?

Absolutely nothing you do will reduce the water vapor, so that's why it's a load of crap. CO2 only constitutes 0.04% of the atmosphere, so it is basically irrelevant.
So your logic is that CO2 isn't a problem because of it's low % in the atmosphere? Would you agree that water vapor increases in hotter/humid weather?
They're going to increase anyway, there is never a point in history where the sea was not raising sans the ice age.
You miss the point. Most people who deny climate change miss the point, but that's because the point is never discussed. Everyone agrees that climate change is normal and happens in cycles. Do you know what the anomaly is?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
They're going to increase anyway, there is never a point in history where the sea was not raising sans the ice age. Antarctica and Greenland combined have enough ice melt to bring us 65 meters more water level, lol. Of course, that assumes a 100% melt-off (probably not likely). If you think that's bad, well it's rose about 30m since the last ice age, if I recall. :D So we are talking flooding in say extremely long time frames, but we'll all be dead and hopefully our future progeny have the sense to build on higher ground. :)

Anyway, I think we should control these things as pollutants. Unfortunately for most of the people here this is one of my nerd subjects, and I assure you about 90% of the global warming / climate change data is cooked. I don't take that tack lightly, in fact I find it frustrating. :D Modern climate scientists are lying to keep their jobs and funding, and the proof is in things they do -- under-reporting glacial ice gains and movements, measuring temp changes that are inside their margins of error, and setting the goal-posts to pander to their biases. Even the most capable of scientists are able to do poor science, if no one challenges their assertions.

To go further would just be diverting from the OP - it's probably another thread, so that's where I'll leave this.
It's far above my pay grade to confirm or dispute climate models.
But looking at the simple feedback mechanism of lower solar albedo due to definite
polar ice loss, I expect change will be fast enuf to create political strife in my lifetime.
I've been recommending solutions which address AGW indirectly, while attacking
more certain problems....
- Reduce pollution by energy conservation.
- Curb population growth.
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Do you also cheat like Komrade Trumpsky? After all, you're comparing yourself to the world's slickest conman and cheat, so it's a fair question. Do you cheat your employees, sub contractors and customers the way Komrade Trumpsky cheats his?
I'm just glad that people will replace bad Hitler references in online debate with bad Russian references.
 
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