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Everyday Biphobia

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Perhaps for some people, it's either taboo or mundane. For others, it's an astounding concept, ie, a brain gender which differs from the physical, an incredibly major surgical alteration, & social situation which is utterly new & strange. To be curious is normal. It's OK to ask, & it's OK to be offended.
It depends on how it's being asked. Of course people are curious and want to know, but often times it becomes solely about those taboo fascinations and you become an object to be poked and prodded at. It's offensive because people do not normally want all the details about a cisgender's person genitals, because we know they all look more or less the same. The vaginas of transwomen are the same in that they are more or less like the vaginas of any other woman. It becomes very offensive when someone asks about it, but they have shown they think poorly of transsexuals, such as my friend's dad who refuses to acknowledge transsexuals as the gender they identify as, and then had the gall to ask about my genitals.
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
Even though I've only poked a foot out of the closet so far, of those who know there have been a few that have suddenly became very interested in my sexuality, what I am attracted to, what I consider my sexual orientation to be, and have even been asked by some if they can see my vagina after vaginoplasty. This includes the dad of one of my friends, who turns into the stereotype of an old creeper around some of his daughter's friends (at least for me she got onto him about it, which she normally doesn't do when her dad becomes that creepy old guy). This has mostly been men, but a couple of women have been this way. From my mom I have heard her ask, when she was talking about a MtF woman she used to work with years ago, "if she dates guys is she gay, but if she dates women is she a lezzy?" And then recently I have heard that I should just have sex with gay men since that's what I am.
Public restroom use is another issue that plagues the lives of transsexuals. Though restrooms, especially women's, have stalls and you can't get much of a peek without looking suspicious, people are very concerned about this and every once in awhile a MtF woman will make the news for being charged with using the women's restroom.
And even though it seems odd that this would happen, because people tend be rather nosy about the sexuality of transsexuals, many men consider it an attack on their masculinity to have sex with a transwoman.

Our trans sisters tend to be targeted the most and experience the worst of discrimination and assault. Much love, lady. You're so strong. <3
 

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
I have a strange attraction. I wouldn't say I'm bi, but I have been attracted to men. But what turns me on is femininity, which kinda blurs the line regarding women & men. It's not so much a gender as it is a..physical style? Mindset? Dunno.

Me too. I'm basically hetero in orientation but have been occasionally attracted to guys, not enough to do anything about it though. I've generally been attracted to petite women with boyish figures, but I don't think it's as simple as having a "type". I've always found this element of ambiguity intriguing but it's never bothered me, and I've always assumed it's quite common. I certainly don't define people by their sexuality, it's just something about them. I have a couple of very tall cousins ( 6' 5" ) but it's not like I would ask them "Why are you so tall?" ;)
 

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
Within the LGBTQ community itself, bisexuals are continually told we are not really who we say we are. We're Lesbians Until Graduation, fodder for threesomes, or we're just one foot out of the closet completely by feigning bisexuality until we feel good enough to reveal that we're really gay.

I didn't know that.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Dealing with everyday biphobia, just like everyday homophobia, must be extremely difficult. Anyone who has to deal with such things has my wholehearted support, including the bisexual people in this thread.
 

Drolefille

PolyPanGeekGirl
I'll say that day to day, for me, biphobia is microaggressions at worst, most of which I overlook unless I'm lookin for them. I'm lucky to be female which makes bisexuality at least possible in others' eyes. Of i were male I'd not exist at all.

Invisibility is like passing privilege. I pass for straight so I don't get crap about being queer. That's nice on the one hand and so very... It's like someone took sandpaper to me and took all the pretty paint off. I blend in but I don't look like me any more. But I'm not being stabbed, or beaten or raped for my sexuality. :/
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I have a strange attraction. I wouldn't say I'm bi, but I have been attracted to men. But what turns me on is femininity, which kinda blurs the line regarding women & men. It's not so much a gender as it is a..physical style? Mindset? Dunno.
Yea. I can relate to that. There are qualities that promote attraction regardless of gender. It was more profound when I was younger but it's easy to relate with.
 

Drolefille

PolyPanGeekGirl
Yea. I can relate to that. There are qualities that promote attraction regardless of gender. It was more profound when I was younger but it's easy to relate with.

For me the reason I define myself as pansexual is that gender itself isn't one of the things that even matters to me. I also tend to find both masculine and feminine attributes attractive. I also call myself sapiosexual - Smart people are incredibly sexy. Someone's brain is more important than their body.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
By-product of monosexism. Erasure occurs from both heterosexuals and homosexuals.
In the case of the homosexual community, I have a hypothesis about bi-erasure: I think it's often from a response to homophobia.

If we acknowledge that sexual orientation is a spectrum instead of a binary of straight/gay, and acknowledge that it's actually pretty rare to be 100% one way or the other, then this opens the door for unthinking homophobes to argue "hey - if you're '90% lesbian' then you're '10% straight', so there ought to be a man out there for you somewhere."

I can see how responding to that sort of thinking enough can result in a dumbing down of one's position: "yes, I'm completely gay. No, I'm not even a little bit straight, so stop trying to shoehorn me into a heteronormative box."
 

Drolefille

PolyPanGeekGirl
In the case of the homosexual community, I have a hypothesis about bi-erasure: I think it's often from a response to homophobia.

If we acknowledge that sexual orientation is a spectrum instead of a binary of straight/gay, and acknowledge that it's actually pretty rare to be 100% one way or the other, then this opens the door for unthinking homophobes to argue "hey - if you're '90% lesbian' then you're '10% straight', so there ought to be a man out there for you somewhere."

I can see how responding to that sort of thinking enough can result in a dumbing down of one's position: "yes, I'm completely gay. No, I'm not even a little bit straight, so stop trying to shoehorn me into a heteronormative box."

That's a self-erasure though, when it turns into "YOU must be gay or straight, stop being indecisive/dishonest/etc" that's when it's turned on others. Self-erasure is bad, it's being dishonest with yourself and the people around you, but at the minimum it targets, well, YOU. And it can be a protective thing. I linked videos on here previously talking about this, and I'll go find them and relink them here. There are some negative ripple effects (fewer visible bisexuals for example) but you're not really oppressing anyone. Someone else telling me I'm not really bi, I'm just faking it for guys, or I'm a non-commital lesbian, that's where we see a problem.
 

Drolefille

PolyPanGeekGirl
I've always assumed that it is pretty rare to be 100% one way or the other.

Depends on what you consider 100%... I mean there's the standard joke, among people i know at least, that you get a "Freebie" - a celebrity same-sex crush for example that doesn't change your sexual identity. But those same people have never actually been interested in other real people of the same sex. They're straight by every functional definition IMO. If you define monosexuality away to nothing you kind of defeat the purpose of having labels.

But I admit to not understanding monosexuality just.. inherently.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
This is exactly what I was talking about.

I don't doubt it is, and it is entirely possible that I am failing to notice some significant element of the situation (and in that case you are welcome to point that out to me).

But the curiosity is probably genuine, and while I can't blame you for being a bit cautious, I don't think it is a bad thing either.

If nothing else, it is a step in the right direction coming (as many doubtless will) from a stance of complete disregard and refusal to acknowledge the reality of transgenderism.

Besides, it is difficult for people to accept and understand transgenders with no information.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I don't understand the obsession of straight people with a trans person genitals. I don't ask you what your latest partners vagina looked, felt, or tasted like. Why is it OK to ask this about someone who is trans? Its rude in either circumstance.

Fair point.
 

Drolefille

PolyPanGeekGirl
I don't doubt it is, and it is entirely possible that I am failing to notice some significant element of the situation (and in that case you are welcome to point that out to me).

But the curiosity is probably genuine, and while I can't blame you for being a bit cautious, I don't think it is a bad thing either.

If nothing else, it is a step in the right direction coming (as many doubtless will) from a stance of complete disregard and refusal to acknowledge the reality of transgenderism.

Besides, it is difficult for people to accept and understand transgenders with no information.

The problem is that these questions are generally considered rude in any typical conversation. It would be like meeting someone of a different race and asking them if their genitalia was really the stereotypical size of their race. Or an American meeting a European male and the first question they ask them is "Oh are you circumsicised?" (Or meeting an African woman and asking her the same question.)

The questions CAN be entirely innocent, but they reduce the person down to their genitalia which is not the most interesting or unique thing about them. There are times it's appropriate to ask - an "Ask a trans person" thread is a great one, or a discussion about genitalia in general, particularly if it's brought up by the trans person. But a) in a thread about bisexuality and b) as soon as you find out they're trans are two examples of bad times.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
You're right, of course. Sorry, I did not mean to be rude nor to derail the thread. That is no excuse, but it is also true.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I don't doubt it is, and it is entirely possible that I am failing to notice some significant element of the situation (and in that case you are welcome to point that out to me).
It's in that other thread that was mentioned (asking why homosexuals and transgenders expect to accepted in society). In this thread, he was talking down on transsexuals, insisted we are gay men who should just have sex with gay men, and even said we are role playing. And then he shows up in this thread and wants to know about the genitals of someone he feels is just role playing. It's a general lack of respect towards the person and a dehumanizing obsession with their genitals. It's very inappropriate to ask anyone about their genitals, and it's dehumanizing to make it the focus. It's not to say questions are entirely off limits, but the questions should be presented in a respectable manner. Insisting that transwomen are gay men who look and sound like a dude, and then show interest in a transwoman's genitals is not respectable. It even falls in line with his numerous statements on how he loves the female body, but no mention of the character and personality of the woman herself until he was called out on it.
It's exactly what I first posted in this thread. People hold disdain and hatred towards transsexuals, and then want to get all up in our business about our sexuality and our genitals. This is not only rude to do to transsexuals, but is rude and impolite to do to anyone.
 
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