Everyday Sexism by Females

[Secret Chief]

Every day.

I don't see it as a Men's Issue. I don't see it as a Feminism issue. I see it as a person issue, a society issue.

I am a male in the UK; my perception is not a day goes by without me hearing casual sexist comments invariably from females. I don't find such attitudes acceptable from anyone, but if such stuff was opined by males in mixed company they would get shot down. Why is it acceptable to come from the mouths of females?

 

[Nymphs]

Every day.

I don't see it as a Men's Issue. I don't see it as a Feminism issue. I see it as a person issue, a society issue.

I am a male in the UK; my perception is not a day goes by without me hearing casual sexist comments invariably from females. I don't find such attitudes acceptable from anyone, but if such stuff was opined by males in mixed company they would get shot down. Why is it acceptable to come from the mouths of females?

It isn't.

 

[Riverwolf]

It isn't.

This.

I don't find sexist comments from any gender about any gender acceptable.

 

[Sunstone]

Sexism sucks.

No, if it actually sucked, it would be much more appealing than it is.

Sexism is boring.

There, that's better.

 

[kashmir]

I just wish women would learn how to put the toilet seat back up when they are done

 

[Secret Chief]

I agree it is not acceptable whoever the speaker. But it seems that's a minority view. Sexism uttered by females seems to be an acceptable communication of a truth, are males afraid to speak out against it? Or is it ignored as being trivial? I just don't get how in mixed company it seems so often unchallenged.

 

[Riverwolf]

I agree it is not acceptable whoever the speaker. But it seems that's a minority view. Sexism uttered by females seems to be an acceptable communication of a truth, are males afraid to speak out against it? Or is it ignored as being trivial? I just don't get how in mixed company it seems so often unchallenged.

It is true that there is a standard cultural double-standard, that women are allowed to be sexist while men aren't. Such double-standards are common in the US; another common one is that African-Americans can make fun of Europeans-Americans, but not vice-versa.

What ties both these double-standards together is the fact that both groups as a whole were oppressed by the other in recent past, and so any man making a sexist comment is misogynistic, while any woman making a sexist comment is progressive.

Of course, it's not progressive at all; it's a double-standard. I don't buy in to double standards. I'm with Foamy on this one: "Either everyone can make fun of everyone, or no one can make fun of anyone." (My two exceptions: I softly follow the notion that only people with holocaust victims in their families can make holocaust jokes at their own expense, and more strongly the one that only people who are on strong friendship terms can make fun of each other at each others' expense; though these are largely because of a friend of mine who follows and enforces them.)

I won't challenge it if I see it among strangers on the street, but I would talk about it with people I know well.

 

[FerralRabbit]

its not acceptable from females [am biologicaly one of them] or males,its a cheap shot to abuse someones gender or another defining part of a person.
just a guess but its probably more accepted from females [towards males] in society because of the long history of sexism and inequality towards females,as if its to be expected and tolerated.

 

[Planets and the Sun]

I'd be interested in knowing what insults you hear.

However, I can understand why some women may feel scared or angry when it comes to men. Think about it. Men hold so much power in a society that is skewed to them. You can say "not all men are the same" and it's true, however, if you have no way of knowing which is which, how would you know? Yesterday I read a good analogy, someone offers you a bowl of M&M's and tells you that 10% of them are laced with poison. Are you still going to take your chance and eat any of them?

I've never heard of women insulting men on the street just for being men, so I'm interested in what they say to you.

EDIT: "Sexism" coming from women is not seen as serious because women don't hold as much power. Of course there are other factors to this as well. However, if we're talking of a man and a woman in the same set of circumstances, society in general favors that guy. It's like going up to your boss and saying he's fired because he sucks, it can hurt his feelings, but it's not going to make him fired from the company just because you say so. On the other hand, if your boss goes up to you and says you're fired because you suck, then yeah, you are fired.

 

[Secret Chief]

just to be clear, I accept in the relative scheme of things, my OP is trivial compared to the historical and current gender inequality and abuse. I can appreciate that 'everyday' sexism is perhaps a low key response to this. That aside, here is an example as requested by Planets; not meant to be extreme or anything, just today's little occurence.

I'm in the office chatting with several colleagues, all female, one of whom is my boss. For the record, I like them all and consider them intelligent.

One is recounting asking her husband to do simple tasks in the house, such as shutting drawers, and finding that he still fails to do the requested actions on a continual basis. She concludes in a serious manner that it "just shows that men are completely untrainable."

I asked if it would be OK if I'd said "women were completely untrainable" to which I got the response from another colleague (my boss) "Well women are simply superior to men."

 

[MysticSang'ha]

just to be clear, I accept in the relative scheme of things, my OP is trivial compared to the historical and current gender inequality and abuse. I can appreciate that 'everyday' sexism is perhaps a low key response to this. That aside, here is an example as requested by Planets; not meant to be extreme or anything, just today's little occurence.

I'm in the office chatting with several colleagues, all female, one of whom is my boss. For the record, I like them all and consider them intelligent.

One is recounting asking her husband to do simple tasks in the house, such as shutting drawers, and finding that he still fails to do the requested actions on a continual basis. She concludes in a serious manner that it "just shows that men are completely untrainable."

I asked if it would be OK if I'd said "women were completely untrainable" to which I got the response from another colleague (my boss) "Well women are simply superior to men."

Yeah, that's not cool.

You know what's really sad? The most ****-shaming comes from females, and the most "men are idiot pigs" kind of insult comes from males, in my experience. When the sexes just simply regurgitate how the other gender refuses to take personal responsibility (like PMSing, or for how men only think with their little head), we only reinforce stereotypes.

I got an example. One year I was running a dance program at one of the community centers in town. All girls, and one boy. This young boy was extremely excited to dance, but I was approached one day by his father who was clearly upset about how the girls in the class were bullying his son. They were teasing him, saying he was just trying to be a girl, that he wasn't a real boy, asking him if he was gay (in a pejorative way). I was appalled, since this occurred outside of my view and earshot. So, the girls obviously knew i wouldn't approve.

I took 10 minutes of class time to discuss how bullying and sexism is not allowed in my class. All dancers should be respected for their time and practice and level of commitment.

It opened my eyes to how often young male dancers are treated poorly by young female dancers.

 

[Secret Chief]

Could you come and have a 10 minute chat with British society??!!

 

[Riverwolf]

Could you come and have a 10 minute chat with British society??!!

Oh, I know I'd LOOOOOOOOVE too! :clover:

Seriously, though, somehow I always thought that Britain was at least better than the US at egalitarianism. Just an example of someone else's lawn having greener grass?

 

[Secret Chief]

I admit I'm not up to speed with the intricacies of feminist waves and ****-shaming (is that American or just my ignorance?)...but anyway....

I suppose what I'm really addressing is I had this notion that feminism was a struggle for equality (in essence), in the face of oppression and subjugation. I find it sad that it seems, in the social sphere, male sexism has been, if not banished, at least nailed as being unacceptable by the feminist movement (obviously a good thing) and yet it has been perfectly replaced by an identical female sexism. In this limited area, it seems equality was not the goal, but rather a reversal of fortunes, a shift of power, the taking away of a demeaning control technique and appropriating it for female use.

 

[Riverwolf]

I admit I'm not up to speed with the intricacies of feminist waves and ****-shaming (is that American or just my ignorance?)...but anyway....

****-shaming American? What do you mean? I mean, yes, that's a terrible problem here, but I'm not sure what you're asking.

I suppose what I'm really addressing is I had this notion that feminism was a struggle for equality (in essence), in the face of oppression and subjugation. I find it sad that it seems, in the social sphere, male sexism has been, if not banished, at least nailed as being unacceptable by the feminist movement (obviously a good thing) and yet it has been perfectly replaced by an identical female sexism. In this limited area, it seems equality was not the goal, but rather a reversal of fortunes, a shift of power, the taking away of a demeaning control technique and appropriating it for female use.

I don't think that was ever the goal of mainstream feminist movements, and it's certainly not one now. Though male sexism is still widely prevalent in the US.

But modern feminism has noticed this sort of thing, as well as other, more serious, instances of sexism against men (by both women and other men), and is now seeking to address them.

To be fair, I'm feminist, but I'm actually not terribly familiar with the various "waves" of feminism, either.

 

[freethinker44]

I have one.

My wife was watching The Talk on TV and they were talking about domestic violence when Sharon Osbourne told a personal story of a time when she got mad at Ozzy and punched him so hard she fell down and hurt herself (cue uproarious applause and laughter from the audience). Imagine how different the reaction would have been if she had been a man telling that story about his wife.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I admit I'm not up to speed with the intricacies of feminist waves and ****-shaming (is that American or just my ignorance?)...but anyway....

I suppose what I'm really addressing is I had this notion that feminism was a struggle for equality (in essence), in the face of oppression and subjugation. I find it sad that it seems, in the social sphere, male sexism has been, if not banished, at least nailed as being unacceptable by the feminist movement (obviously a good thing) and yet it has been perfectly replaced by an identical female sexism. In this limited area, it seems equality was not the goal, but rather a reversal of fortunes, a shift of power, the taking away of a demeaning control technique and appropriating it for female use.

I hear you. I think, though, that most often it's the backlash when the status quo has been challenged. When Second Wave feminism was gaining momentum, bisexual and lesbian women were scorned and denied being part of the movement, being associated along with not wanting women to be hit on sexually. Women of color were disregarded for a LONG time, and lately, Third Wave is just now coming to terms with its racist and trans-phobic history, and doing its best to erase the bigotry from the movement.

Now that females have become more visible, we can prove that we can **** things up just as badly. So, let's just keep trying to work together.

 

[Secret Chief]

Oh, I know I'd LOOOOOOOOVE too! :clover:

Seriously, though, somehow I always thought that Britain was at least better than the US at egalitarianism. Just an example of someone else's lawn having greener grass?

Our grass is brown, it's so covered in pish! You mean the Britain that has a globally low level of social mobility, the Britain where the richest 5% own as much wealth as the poorest 55%, the Britain that has a monarchy, the Britain whose ruling elite went to a small number of private schools?

 

[Secret Chief]

@Riverwolf
I just meant "****-shaming" is a new term to me. I've enlightened myself with Wiki now.

 

[Riverwolf]

Our grass is brown, it's so covered in pish! You mean the Britain that has a globally low level of social mobility, the Britain where the richest 5% own as much wealth as the poorest 55%, the Britain that has a monarchy, the Britain whose ruling elite went to a small number of private schools?

But.... but... but... your television doesn't completely suck... and... Stonehenge...




...Wait, I thought Britain's monarchy was constitutional, so the Queen has no direct political control.