Everyone has a religion

[PruePhillip]

Is there really such a thing as atheism?
Everyone has a religion of some sort.
We all come up with some idea of how it all started
and how it will all end.
We all seek a purpose and meaning for our lives.

And at the beginning there was a Miracle. Either the miracle is God's
or we think the universe created itself out of nothing and for no reason
whatsoever. The latter is the real miracle - a creation without space,
or time, or matter or energy, or physical laws or even mathematics,
bursting forth in the ultimate act of pointlessness.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Is there really such a thing as atheism?

I don't believe in any god that I've heard of so far. What word would you use to describe someone like that?

Everyone has a religion of some sort.

Personal philosophies and religions are two very different things.

We all come up with some idea of how it all started
and how it will all end.

That's true for those who care to think on such things. But, again, philosophies and religions are not equivalent.

We all seek a purpose and meaning for our lives.

And at the beginning there was a Miracle. Either the miracle is God's or we think the universe created itself out of nothing and for no reason
whatsoever.

This is a common hiccup among the pious. One could just as easily argue that there was no beginning, making both arguments that you've presented here moot.

It's the religious position that something came from nothing. Be careful with your projections.

The latter is the real miracle - a creation without space, or time, or matter or energy, or physical laws or even mathematics,
bursting forth in the ultimate act of pointlessness.

That you see only these two dichotomies is telling.

 

[LuisDantas]

Is there really such a thing as atheism?

Aye, there is.

Everyone has a religion of some sort.

That depends on how one defines "religion". I will readily grant that it is very easy and perhaps advisable to do so in such a way as to validate this claim.

We all come up with some idea of how it all started
and how it will all end.

That is not a very significant matter, though. Also, it is only arguably of even marginal religious interest.

We all seek a purpose and meaning for our lives.

Sure.

Are you implying that somewhere in the above statements one can find some reason for everyone to be at some level a theist?

That does not follow at all. Religion does not demand theism. Nor does any of the subject matters that you mentioned so far.

And at the beginning there was a Miracle. Either the miracle is God's
or we think the universe created itself out of nothing and for no reason
whatsoever. The latter is the real miracle - a creation without space,
or time, or matter or energy, or physical laws or even mathematics,
bursting forth in the ultimate act of pointlessness.

That is just idle and useless speculation from rather arbitrary premises, with no religious significance and no value as justification or even encouragement for theism.

Except, apparently, that some people seem to make that jump out of some form of personal vocation.

I don't think that makes sense, but it does seem to happen anyway.

 

[YmirGF]

Is there really such a thing as atheism?

Apparently.

Everyone has a religion of some sort.

That is simply false.

We all come up with some idea of how it all started
and how it will all end. We all seek a purpose and meaning for our lives.

I have no idea how "it all" started or how it will end. I don't pretend to know. A small correction. I make purpose and meaning. I don't seek it.

And at the beginning there was a Miracle. Either the miracle is God's or we think the universe created itself out of nothing and for no reason whatsoever. The latter is the real miracle - a creation without space,or time, or matter or energy, or physical laws or even mathematics, bursting forth in the ultimate act of pointlessness.

I rarely confuse a natural event for a miracle. That's just me though.

 

[PruePhillip]

Apparently.
That is simply false.
I have no idea how "it all" started or how it will end. I don't pretend to know. A small correction. I make purpose and meaning. I don't seek it.

I rarely confuse a natural event for a miracle. That's just me though.

Science states that all events have a natural cause.
But kicking the can up the hill leads us to the first event which by definition cannot
have a cause - this is the Super Miracle.

 

[YmirGF]

Science states that all events have a natural cause.
But kicking the can up the hill leads us to the first event which by definition cannot
have a cause - this is the Super Miracle.

If you are given to wax on poetically, then sure, bring on the miraculous tripe. It doesn't make it a bona fide miracle which directly implies divine intervention (which would be a cause, FWIW).

 

[Thief]

Is there really such a thing as atheism?
Everyone has a religion of some sort.
We all come up with some idea of how it all started
and how it will all end.
We all seek a purpose and meaning for our lives.

And at the beginning there was a Miracle. Either the miracle is God's
or we think the universe created itself out of nothing and for no reason
whatsoever. The latter is the real miracle - a creation without space,
or time, or matter or energy, or physical laws or even mathematics,
bursting forth in the ultimate act of pointlessness.

I don't have a religion
I believe in God

the miracle is to form creation from a void

the reason to do so.....
difficult to say ......I AM!
with nothing to show for it

 

[jonathan180iq]

Science states that all events have a natural cause.
But kicking the can up the hill leads us to the first event which by definition cannot
have a cause - this is the Super Miracle.

Everything has a cause, except for the thing that doesn't have a cause. Therefore not everything has to have a cause.

Got it.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Is there really such a thing as atheism?
Everyone has a religion of some sort.
We all come up with some idea of how it all started
and how it will all end.
We all seek a purpose and meaning for our lives.

And at the beginning there was a Miracle. Either the miracle is God's
or we think the universe created itself out of nothing and for no reason
whatsoever. The latter is the real miracle - a creation without space,
or time, or matter or energy, or physical laws or even mathematics,
bursting forth in the ultimate act of pointlessness.

What definition of "religion" are you working from, if I may ask?

The one I found:

a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances,and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

I colored in red the things I don't believe I have/hold, and colored in blue those things I do have/hold. A breakdown/explanation of each:

1. the cause - I don't believe there was a "cause." My belief is that the universe and all material within has simply always existed in some form. Does this constitute a "cause?" I don't think it does, but maybe you feel differently.
2. nature - I put this one in blue because I do believe that there are aspects of the universe that adhere to a particular "nature" that it contains, or contains it.
3. purpose - I do not believe there is necessarily any purpose to it at all. Any purpose that a human being derives or decides on is just that... something someone is selecting and deciding to believe is "the purpose" - but that can be (and has been proven to be) different per person - and always will be - and I believe this is because there is no objective purpose.
4. creation of a superhuman agency or agencies - I definitely do not believe in supernatural agency at all.
5. devotional and ritual observances - I observe no rituals... except maybe a daily shower, and eating meals with the family - maybe those count? I doubt it.
6. moral code governing the conduct of human affairs - I don't believe there is an objective set of morals that are expected to be adhered to outside of human contrivance - and so my list I know is my own - it is not "agreed upon" or "divinely inspired" - it's mine, and it is open to some revision as better ideas are developed - as has been the case since my birth.

So, with 1 in 6 defining characteristics not really attributable to my belief-set/worldview, would you still consider my views a "religion?" I won't be offended if you do... I honestly don't care. It is a word, and it has a definition. Whether or not I meet the qualifications of the definition does not change who or what I am.

Ever notice this kind of attempt to cast atheists as "belief-holders" is a one-way street a vast majority of the time? Meaning - you so much more often see theists trying to paint atheists as "believers" than you do atheists trying to paint theists as "non-believers." My best guess is that it has a lot to do with the insecurity of theists, and the fact that atheist arguments concerning the implausibility of god concepts are so very compelling. It's probably hard not to question your beliefs given many of the points that are made concerning god's existence, sometimes against organized religion and sometimes about the spiritual realm in general. I know I couldn't keep it up if I were you... which is why I didn't.

 

[Thief]

Everything has a cause, except for the thing that doesn't have a cause. Therefore not everything has to have a cause.

Got it.

finally

 

[HonestJoe]

Is there really such a thing as atheism?
Everyone has a religion of some sort.

Atheism is the opposite of theism, not the opposite of religion. Atheists can be religious and theists can be non-religious.

We all come up with some idea of how it all started
and how it will all end.
We all seek a purpose and meaning for our lives.

Sure, but that’s more personal philosophy rather than formal religion. We’ll have have with or without a belief in any kind of god or gods though.

And at the beginning there was a Miracle. Either the miracle is God's
or we think the universe created itself out of nothing and for no reason
whatsoever. The latter is the real miracle - a creation without space,
or time, or matter or energy, or physical laws or even mathematics,
bursting forth in the ultimate act of pointlessness.

Miracle always strikes me as a difficult concept. It essentially means “something that is impossible” and so suggesting a miracle actually happened seems irrational. Whatever causes the universe to come in to being can’t really be called a miracle since it could happen by definition.

What that thing is remains a mystery. Presenting it as a simple binary or “God or creating itself out of nothing” is a simplistic misrepresentation, especially since your capitialisation of God implies a specific kind of monotheistic being. Why couldn’t the universe have been created by a pantheon of multiple gods or some powerful being totally unlike any concept of “god” humans have ever or could ever conceive?

 

[Jumi]

Is there really such a thing as atheism?

Of course. I was atheist for decades and I always felt a bit awkward when people said I had a religion, because it seemed dishonest of them. Still feel the same way. I'm theist and I don't have a religion.

Everyone has a religion of some sort.

If we redefine religion so that it doesn't have to be religion in any way, then yes.

 

[LuisDantas]

Science states that all events have a natural cause.
But kicking the can up the hill leads us to the first event which by definition cannot
have a cause - this is the Super Miracle.

Maybe you don't know that this isn't really at all accurate. Not the first statement, let alone the second.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Is there really such a thing as atheism?
Everyone has a religion of some sort.
We all come up with some idea of how it all started
and how it will all end.
We all seek a purpose and meaning for our lives.

And at the beginning there was a Miracle. Either the miracle is God's
or we think the universe created itself out of nothing and for no reason
whatsoever. The latter is the real miracle - a creation without space,
or time, or matter or energy, or physical laws or even mathematics,
bursting forth in the ultimate act of pointlessness.

I know its hard to believe, but there are many people who dont believe a one single religious cause to the universe.

They are few and in between; but, your OP isnt correct. There are people who love hamburgers and people who dont and people who havent even heard of the word to begin with.

Religion is not different in this logic.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Of course. I was atheist for decades and I always felt a bit awkward when people said I had a religion, because it seemed dishonest of them. Still feel the same way. I'm theist and I don't have a religion.

I'd be interested to hear about your change of position sometime.

 

[Father Heathen]

Is there really such a thing as atheism?
Everyone has a religion of some sort.
We all come up with some idea of how it all started
and how it will all end.
We all seek a purpose and meaning for our lives.

And at the beginning there was a Miracle. Either the miracle is God's
or we think the universe created itself out of nothing and for no reason
whatsoever. The latter is the real miracle - a creation without space,
or time, or matter or energy, or physical laws or even mathematics,
bursting forth in the ultimate act of pointlessness.

Speculating about the universe's origin doesn't define religion.

 

[Quintessence]

Is there really such a thing as atheism?

So they say. That said, I've yet to meet anyone who actually disbelieves in all god-concepts throughout human history and across all cultures given this would include disbelieving in literally everything. I tend to interpret atheism as meaning "rejects the mainstream god-concept of their surrounding culture" combined with "denies the validity of applying terms like deity and god to non-mainstream god-concepts." That seems to be how folks who call themselves atheists actually operate in practice.

Which isn't actually that different from claiming the label theist, by the by. The terms "atheist" and "theist" are kind of useless like that.

Everyone has a religion of some sort.

I agree, depending on what you mean by "religion." What do you mean by religion? I'm a bit concerned that you might be conflating religion and theism.

We all come up with some idea of how it all started
and how it will all end.
We all seek a purpose and meaning for our lives.

This clarifies a bit what you mean by "religion," but I think it's important to recognize that there are religions that don't care much about cosmology, or envision it very differently than you present here. In the sense of religion providing narratives that contextualize purpose and meaning, though, that... absolutely. Everybody has that. And it's the heart of religion.

 

[Nakosis]

Is there really such a thing as atheism?
Everyone has a religion of some sort.
We all come up with some idea of how it all started
and how it will all end.
We all seek a purpose and meaning for our lives.

I accept that I have no idea how it all started. I accept that I'll probably die without knowing. I don't really care. I can make up something, create a religion about it if I wanted, still wouldn't mean I know anything about it.

I figure we are free to create our own purpose in life. No real need to go about seeking one.

And at the beginning there was a Miracle. Either the miracle is God's
or we think the universe created itself out of nothing and for no reason
whatsoever. The latter is the real miracle - a creation without space,
or time, or matter or energy, or physical laws or even mathematics,
bursting forth in the ultimate act of pointlessness.

So my narrative is that the universe has always existed. Perhaps it just goes through cycles. So no need to create what has always been there. Doesn't mean it true, but it's a story as good as any.

Whatever point there is to be, it's up to us to individually create it, IMO.

 

[LuisDantas]

Speculating about the universe's origin doesn't define religion.

To say the least!

 

[Audie]

Is there really such a thing as atheism?
Everyone has a religion of some sort.
We all come up with some idea of how it all started
and how it will all end.
We all seek a purpose and meaning for our lives.

And at the beginning there was a Miracle. Either the miracle is God's
or we think the universe created itself out of nothing and for no reason
whatsoever. The latter is the real miracle - a creation without space,
or time, or matter or energy, or physical laws or even mathematics,
bursting forth in the ultimate act of pointlessness.

Your inability to grasp how others' minds
work does not make you correct.

"How it all started" and "meaning" has
nothing to do with belief in god, unless
you choose to think it does Then, it
still does not; there being no god.
But at least you think there is

Your personal "definition" for what is
a "miracle" is just your opinion, and
as such, of zero value.

You is batting zero.

Speaking of batting, you could also
try "Everybody has a sport".
Even Asportists have a sport.

Everyone has an idea of how sports began,
and how they may end; everyone seeks
value and meaning is sports.

Therefore sports are a miracle and
everyone has a sport.

Therefore -
There is no such thing as an asportist.

(that last is even true!)