Everyone knows what it's like to be dead.

[shytot]

Everyone knows what it's like to be dead.
I suppose your thinking that must one of the silliest sentences you have ever read, on the face of it, you could be right,
(but to an atheist this makes perfect sense) after all, to know what it's like to be dead,
you must die, and if you die, you wont be back to tell people what it's like,
(religions all over the world rely on this fact, because if we knew, there would be no need for religions)
so the opposite to dead, is alive, you are either dead or you are alive, right? simple? no, not so simple,
Tell me where you were at 11.30 on the morning of June 2nd, 1578?
your going to say 'I didn't exist', so where were you?
You were dead.
That's why 'Everyone knows what it's like to be dead'.

 

[Mister Emu]

This assumes that when one dies one ceases to exist, which (in my opinion) is incorrect.

 

[shytot]

As an Atheist, I like to think about things, I cannot accept things on face value,
if I am told a thing and it makes sense, I tend to belive it, but Faith,
faith can move mountains, and make people believe all kinds of things.
So when did you start to 'exist'? was it at conception or birth?
and why do you think, out of all of the animals, we are the only ones who
are going to 'exist' after death?
Please, dont anyone quote scripture at me, just tell me what YOU think.

 

[jewscout]

As an Atheist, I like to think about things, I cannot accept things on face value,
if I am told a thing and it makes sense, I tend to belive it, but Faith,
faith can move mountains, and make people believe all kinds of things.
So when did you start to 'exist'? was it at conception or birth?
and why do you think, out of all of the animals, we are the only ones who
are going to 'exist' after death?
Please, dont anyone quote scripture at me, just tell me what YOU think.

no one truely knows what happens to you after you die. Physically your decomposing and returning to the earth as different elements. But your consciousness or soul or whatever no one really knows whats waiting for us when we die.
Therefore i don't concern myself with the afterlife, i simply try to be a good person now.

 

[painted wolf]

I'm not shure I 'know' what its like... I don't remember what it was like to not exist in 1578, so how could I translate that 'knowledge' into what it will be like when I am dead?
For all I know right now, I may have been around in 1578 in my ancestors lives. Perhaps I lived as one of them or perhaps I was a wolf wandering the forests. Anyway it is irrelevent for me in this life right now, just as it is irrelevent what will happin to me when I die.
I may live on in my decendants, or in reincarnation, or on a fluffly cloud somewhere, or I could just 'poof' and be no more, again it really doesn't matter.

Shytot, I have no scripture to quote but I will tell you what I can about my religion and my existance. I can not say when I began to exist, I only remember things from so long ago in my life. (somewhere around 2-ish is my first memory) Perhaps that was when I began to realy exist. Who I am now is not simply just a jumble of DNA, twins for instance are not the same person. There is something within me that takes my genetics, my environment and my experiences and turns all that into a unique being... me. Is that my 'soul' or is it chance, or something elce intirely? What will happin to that something that is me when I die? I have no idea, and really does it matter, if I live a good life and have no regrets than I can't say that it would. My spirituality is more concerned with living your life as best you can now, not trying to pass some 'test' to go someplace later.
Also, all things in creation are just as important as we are. The afterlife, whatever that may, be is not a humans only place in my religion. If anything it is harder for us to get to because we are so out of ballance with ourselves and our world.

I hope this helps

wa:do

 

[HelpMe]

As an Atheist, I like to think about things, I cannot accept things on face value

you accept the state of death at face value.and i could be wrong, so excuse me, but isn't it the general atheists view that only our 5 senses prove anything?these are all face value assumptions as far as i can tell.

Everyone knows what it's like to be dead...just tell me what YOU think

it's probably like riding a bike right?i seem to of forgotten, would you get me started.

 

[robtex]

Everyone knows what it's like to be dead.
I suppose your thinking that must one of the silliest sentences you have ever read, on the face of it, you could be right,
(but to an atheist this makes perfect sense) after all, to know what it's like to be dead,
you must die, and if you die, you wont be back to tell people what it's like,
(religions all over the world rely on this fact, because if we knew, there would be no need for religions)
so the opposite to dead, is alive, you are either dead or you are alive, right? simple? no, not so simple,
Tell me where you were at 11.30 on the morning of June 2nd, 1578?
your going to say 'I didn't exist', so where were you?
You were dead.
That's why 'Everyone knows what it's like to be dead'.

by that reasoning you are asserting that one can have knowledge before one exists (your example being 6/2/1578). One could only have knowledge before the current existance of non existance if one was existant to have experienced inexistance. So I got to ask....where are u going with this?

 

[shytot]

Why do we always try and complicate things?, life and death is so simple, living things have been
living and dying for hundreds of millions of years, and if we don't blow up the earth,
will continue to live and die for hundreds of millions more, evolution hasn't stopped with us,
the dinosaurs were here for about three hundred million years, give or take,
we have been here for about 25,000 years, and we think 'WE' are the final chapter, dream on.

Thousands of years ago, three hunters stood on a cliff top looking for something to hunt,
one of them lost his footing and fell off the cliff, the other two made their way to the bottom
of the cliff, but their friend was dead, they were both very upset, this is how the conversation went,
1 'one good thing is, he has gone to a better place'
2 'he hasn't' he's right here'
1 'I don't mean his body, I mean his life force, his spirit'
2 'I don't understand what you mean'
1 'well, when you die your spirit leaves for another place'
2 'where does it go?
1 'It goes to a wonderful place, where it's never cold and there are lots of animals to hunt,
an absolutely wonderful place'
2 'Well what are we waiting for, let's get back up to the top of the cliff and jump'
1 'You cant do that, they wont let you in if you take your own life'
2 'who are 'they'
1 'I don't know, but I know they wont'
2 'How do you know so much about what happens after you die, and who makes the rules?
1 'You have never been to the next village upstream have you? well there is a man up there
who claims to be able to speak to the other side'
2 'He's half dead is he?'
1 'No, but he says they tell him what you must, and must not do, to get into that place'
2 'They tell him because he's got some kind of power has he?
1 'No, but he is a very powerful man in the community'
2 'I bet he is'
Just a little food for thought.

 

[jewscout]

Why do we always try and complicate things?, life and death is so simple, living things have been
living and dying for hundreds of millions of years, and if we don't blow up the earth,
will continue to live and die for hundreds of millions more, evolution hasn't stopped with us,
the dinosaurs were here for about three hundred million years, give or take,
we have been here for about 25,000 years, and we think 'WE' are the final chapter, dream on.

Thousands of years ago, three hunters stood on a cliff top looking for something to hunt,
one of them lost his footing and fell off the cliff, the other two made their way to the bottom
of the cliff, but their friend was dead, they were both very upset, this is how the conversation went,
1 'one good thing is, he has gone to a better place'
2 'he hasn't' he's right here'
1 'I don't mean his body, I mean his life force, his spirit'
2 'I don't understand what you mean'
1 'well, when you die your spirit leaves for another place'
2 'where does it go?
1 'It goes to a wonderful place, where it's never cold and there are lots of animals to hunt,
an absolutely wonderful place'
2 'Well what are we waiting for, let's get back up to the top of the cliff and jump'
1 'You cant do that, they wont let you in if you take your own life'
2 'who are 'they'
1 'I don't know, but I know they wont'
2 'How do you know so much about what happens after you die, and who makes the rules?
1 'You have never been to the next village upstream have you? well there is a man up there
who claims to be able to speak to the other side'
2 'He's half dead is he?'
1 'No, but he says they tell him what you must, and must not do, to get into that place'
2 'They tell him because he's got some kind of power has he?
1 'No, but he is a very powerful man in the community'
2 'I bet he is'

nice story...what's ur point?

 

[painted wolf]

I know I have never said we were the end of evolution, nor has my religion. How do end an endless cycle? You seem to be painting all faiths with the same brush.

wa:do

 

[jewscout]

I know I have never said we were the end of evolution, nor has my religion. How do end an endless cycle? You seem to be painting all faiths with the same brush.

wa:do

Amen! :woohoo:

 

[shytot]

I really don't know what else to say to you, your obviously happy thinking the way you do,
so let's just forget it, and all go on our merry way.

 

[Runt]

I think a better way to describe what death is like is to imagine what it is like to go under. If you've ever had surgery you know that when you get general anasthesia you are conscious one moment, and conscious the next, and you simply have no recollection of falling asleep, time passing, or dreams. It is creepy to wake up and realize the difference between this and normal sleep, because, quite literally, it is as if you didn't exist.

If you are dead... it is like that... there is nothing to experience, no sense of being or not being, no sense of time. Nothing.

Thinking this way, death does not seem so frightening. If there is nothing to experience, then why be frightened?

This, of course, is not the opinion of someone who believes in an afterlife, so it may not work for you... but it works for me.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

shytot and Runt--I agree with you guys.

no one truely knows what happens to you after you die. Physically your decomposing and returning to the earth as different elements. But your consciousness or soul or whatever know one really knows whats waiting for us when we die.

Well, think about it this way. Everything we experience is inextricably tied to our nervous system. Ingest certain chemicals and you'll feel certain emotions, damage your brain and you'll lose memory or your capacity for thought, or you may even lose consciousness entirely. Now, when we die, our brains stop functioning. So, we have to ask ourselves--if we can lose consciousness briefly by being hit over the head with a bat, what makes us think we won't lose consciousness permanently by being run over by a train?

If we really want to know what happens when we die, we must ask ourselves the following questions:
Is thought possible without a functioning brain? Is memory possible without a functioning brain? Is imagination, sensations, dreams, visions, or emotion possible without a functioning brain? Is consciousness possible without a functioning brain?

The answer to all of the above is certainly no. I for one did not experience any of those things before I developed a functioning brain. (Whether or not I still have a functioning brain is debatable ). Like Runt said, I did not experience any of the above while unconscious during surgery. Is it not reasonable then to conclude that after the brain shuts down permanently, we no longer experience consciousness, emotions, memories, sensations, etc? Is it possible that, despite being intelligent organisms, evolution has designed us so well to survive that the very notion of our lives coming to a permanent end is reflexively rejected by our psyches?

 

[jewscout]

shytot and Runt--I agree with you guys.
Well, think about it this way. Everything we experience is inextricably tied to our nervous system. Ingest certain chemicals and you'll feel certain emotions, damage your brain and you'll lose memory or your capacity for thought, or you may even lose consciousness entirely. Now, when we die, our brains stop functioning. So, we have to ask ourselves--if we can lose consciousness briefly by being hit over the head with a bat, what makes us think we won't lose consciousness permanently by being run over by a train?

If we really want to know what happens when we die, we must ask ourselves the following questions:
Is thought possible without a functioning brain? Is memory possible without a functioning brain? Is imagination, sensations, dreams, visions, or emotion possible without a functioning brain? Is consciousness possible without a functioning brain?

The answer to all of the above is certainly no. I for one did not experience any of those things before I developed a functioning brain. (Whether or not I still have a functioning brain is debatable ). Like Runt said, I did not experience any of the above while unconscious during surgery. Is it not reasonable then to conclude that after the brain shuts down permanently, we no longer experience consciousness, emotions, memories, sensations, etc? Is it possible that, despite being intelligent organisms, evolution has designed us so well to survive that the very notion of our lives coming to a permanent end is reflexively rejected by our psyches?

It is very reasonable to conclude such a thing. I don't deny this as a possibility in the quote you gave from me.

no one truely knows what happens to you after you die. Physically your decomposing and returning to the earth as different elements. But your consciousness or soul or whatever no one really knows whats waiting for us when we die.

My point is no one knows. I personally don't concern myself with it.

 

[jewscout]

I really don't know what else to say to you, your obviously happy thinking the way you do,
so let's just forget it, and all go on our merry way.

your obviously happy on your soapbox.

 

[chuck010342]

thats absolutly wonderful that everybody knows what death is like. This is not true because before we were Born God knew what we would look and be like as he formed us in the womb. There is no death only the shadow of death

 

[Ceridwen018]

There is no death only the shadow of death

How can something have a shadow if it doesn't exist?

 

[chuck010342]

How can something have a shadow if it doesn't exist?

its only a shadow the real thing doesn't exsist.

 

[logos]

Everyone knows what it's like to be dead.
I suppose your thinking that must one of the silliest sentences you have ever read, on the face of it, you could be right,
(but to an atheist this makes perfect sense) after all, to know what it's like to be dead,
you must die, and if you die, you wont be back to tell people what it's like,
(religions all over the world rely on this fact, because if we knew, there would be no need for religions)
so the opposite to dead, is alive, you are either dead or you are alive, right? simple? no, not so simple,
Tell me where you were at 11.30 on the morning of June 2nd, 1578?
your going to say 'I didn't exist', so where were you?
You were dead.
That's why 'Everyone knows what it's like to be dead'.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding some point, but I am not seeing the correlation between non-existence and death. If we ceased to exist, why were we dead? I thought death is a privation of life and therefore cannot have death without life, as we understand it. I don't know that our ceasing to exist and death are the same things. One seems to take into account an ontological dimension insofar as non-existence and death are two different things.

Granted, I can understand this as an atheistic point of view, but if, by your assumption, we ceased to exist then we existed, how did we go from the cessation of existence to existence itself?

Thanks