Evidence for an ancient earth

[FearGod]

Of course they are. Mutations are random and so most of them are not significant (for example, most humans have about 60 or so) many others are harmful and just a few, very rarely, are beneficial. The beneficial ones - those that confer and advantage for survival and reproduction in the environment - survive and reproduce more and hence spread through populations, while the others do not. That's called natural selection.

I believe in science and logic, I don't believe randomness can achieve a good job by accidents that can
be beneficial for one species, can you give me an example of recent good mutations that was beneficial for
humans in our recent days? or have we wait millions of years to watch its effect?

The light sensitive cells in the retina point backwards (away from the light), the nerves (that point towards the light) then have to trail over the surface of the retina and go though a hole, leading to a blind spot. The eye can only focus properly and see colour in a tiny spot in the centre, so the eye has to continually scan the scene and the brain then has to do lots or 'post processing' in order to give the impression of a good, sharp visual field. If a human engineer had designed it, they would rightly be call incompetent...

The human's eyes is amazing and working perfectly, I can see a great designer behind it than the inanimate stones
doing it by randomness?

Blatant question begging. You have just assumed that the thing that makes logical choices cannot be the brain by itself, in order to argue that it cannot be the brain by itself...

I can't help if you can't recognize your own self and thinking that the brain's material is what you're.

 

[Polymath257]

You believe that beneficial mutations were due to randomness, accidents but for good.

Yes. They don't have to happen very often to have a great effect.

I believe my eyes are more than perfect, Praise be to Allah for having such a great thing to see the amazing world with.

Well, you can believe that if you want, but the facts say different. And intelligent engineer would turn the light detectors in the direction of the light instead of the opposite direction. In our eyes, the detectors, the rods and cones, are turned towards the *back* of the eye, so that the light has to go through the retina to be detected. In cephalopods, the detectors are turned *towards* the light.

 

[Polymath257]

I believe in science and logic, I don't believe randomness can achieve a good job by accidents that can
be beneficial for one species, can you give me an example of recent good mutations that was beneficial for
humans in our recent days? or have we wait millions of years to watch its effect?

Actually, this is now a programming method for finding computer programs that can do a required job. First, you have a program that does *something*. Then, you randomly modify it, forming several 'children'. Pick those children that do the job better and have them form the next generation. Repeat this process several times and you will frequently get a program that does your task very, very well. The beneficial mutations, though, were all random.

The human's eyes is amazing and working perfectly, I can see a great designer behind it than the inanimate stones
doing it by randomness?

Random mutation *and* natural selection. The selection based on survival is a crucial aspect. So is the fact that the information is passed to the next generation.

I can't help if you can't recognize your own self and thinking that the brain's material is what you're.

Yes, *you* are the process (program) running on the hardware of the brain. You make decisions, you feel emotions, etc. But all of this happens because the brain is doing it all.

 

[Polymath257]

The physical brain needs to get orders, if it works by itself then how the inanimate body
of matter of the brain can make any logical decisions, it should moves your hand anytime it wishes, why
this physical body should act wisely, look to your hand and ask it to move, it won't move and
it'll never move by itself either, it takes an order from you, did you know the person inside you
other than your physical body.

The 'person inside of you' is your brain doing the work.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Creationist: Big bang? What do you think created that? Everything has a cause, something had to cause it, the idea of an uncaused event is ludicrous! Obviously God created it.

Atheist: So what caused God?

Creationist: God needs no cause! The idea that he does is ludicrous! God is an uncaused event!

 

[FearGod]

The 'person inside of you' is your brain doing the work.

The brain is just one organ and a part of the whole body, it belongs to the whole body as the heart
and other organs do? no it isn't what the human is.

 

[Polymath257]

The brain is just one organ and a part of the whole body, it belongs to the whole body as the heart
and other organs do? no it isn't what the human is.

The brain is the organ where thinking and consciousness reside.

 

[FearGod]

The brain is the organ where thinking and consciousness reside.

Conscious for whom, for itself.
Do the inanimate tissues of the brain think for itself, if for you then who're you, are you the inanimate tissues of the brain?

 

[Polymath257]

Conscious for whom, for itself.
Do the inanimate tissues of the brain think for itself, if for you then who're you, are you the inanimate tissues of the brain?

Who said the brain is inanimate? It is alive, so is animate. And yes, thinking in humans is done by the nerves in the brain.

 

[FearGod]

Who said the brain is inanimate? It is alive, so is animate. And yes, thinking in humans is done by the nerves in the brain.

Does the animate tissues watch and enjoy seeing what your eyes receive?
it's like saying the photographic paper watch itself.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

No magic, the hardware is needed as well as the programs, the data inputs and the person
behind the machine.

The physical brain needs to get orders, if it works by itself then how the inanimate body
of matter of the brain can make any logical decisions, it should moves your hand anytime it wishes, why
this physical body should act wisely, look to your hand and ask it to move, it won't move and
it'll never move by itself either, it takes an order from you, did you know the person inside you
other than your physical body.

False analogy. I *can* make the hand of a freshly dead person twitch, move or even grasp, by simply applying mild electoral current to the nerves. You can even remove the arm, and I can still do these things.

In Victorian England, it was commonplace to do this with freshly dead corpses in University settings, even as a lecture in human anatomy. Experiments of that day, could even make corpses sit up, twitch, and so forth.

So your example does not work because of the simple fact, that I *can* make a dead hand move.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

The physical brain needs to get orders, i

False.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

No he didn't post any video.

Actually, he did. Perhaps elsewhere in this forum? I'll see if I can find a link, if you are serious.

 

[Jose Fly]

I don't believe randomness can achieve a good job by accidents that can be beneficial for one species

Beneficial mutations are not uncommon. In fact, we're actively fighting against them right now, in the form of bacteria acquiring resistance to our antibiotics. The mutations that confer the resistance are very beneficial for the bacteria.

can you give me an example of recent good mutations that was beneficial for humans in our recent days?

4 Beneficial Evolutionary Mutations That Humans Are Undergoing Right Now

 

[FearGod]

False analogy. I *can* make the hand of a freshly dead person twitch, move or even grasp, by simply applying mild electoral current to the nerves. You can even remove the arm, and I can still do these things.

In Victorian England, it was commonplace to do this with freshly dead corpses in University settings, even as a lecture in human anatomy. Experiments of that day, could even make corpses sit up, twitch, and so forth.

So your example does not work because of the simple fact, that I *can* make a dead hand move.

And who makes the live hand to move, does the brain make the order and who orders the brain to do it,
if everything is done by the brain, then we shouldn't punish the evil people because the problem is with
their brains and we should take care about them in the hospitals and let them enjoy their life instead
of letting them to suffer in the jails.

 

[FearGod]

Actually, he did. Perhaps elsewhere in this forum? I'll see if I can find a link, if you are serious.

I'm serious.

 

[FearGod]

Beneficial mutations are not uncommon. In fact, we're actively fighting against them right now, in the form of bacteria acquiring resistance to our antibiotics. The mutations that confer the resistance are very beneficial for the bacteria.

And when such kind of bacteria will evolve to a more new complex organism.

4 Beneficial Evolutionary Mutations That Humans Are Undergoing Right Now

And humans will evolve eventually to another species.

 

[sayak83]

And who makes the live hand to move, does the brain make the order and who orders the brain to do it,
if everything is done by the brain, then we shouldn't punish the evil people because the problem is with
their brains and we should take care about them in the hospitals and let them enjoy their life instead
of letting them to suffer in the jails.

That would actually be the correct thing to do irrespective of whether we are only brains or have spirit. I am quite sure that a few centuries from now our descendants would look at our predilections of punishing and jailing people with as much justified horror as we look at the Roman customs of gladiatorial fights.

 

[Jose Fly]

And when such kind of bacteria will evolve to a more new complex organism.

And humans will evolve eventually to another species.

Nice. You ask for examples of X, but when examples are given you wave them away because they're not Y, hoping all the time that everyone will forget that you originally asked for X.

That's not very honest, is it?

 

[Guy Threepwood]

And Last Thursdayism appears! You see, all your memories, all the world around us, was actually created last Thursday. You can't prove this claim wrong.

And that is *exactly* what you just did. Except that in place of Last Thursday, you put some time a few thousand years ago.

You don't think that the past becomes a little more difficult to accurately reconstruct, the further back you try to look?