Evidence for an ancient earth

[Sapiens]

I accept all the scriptures, not "ones I accept".

There is excellent evidence to trust Jesus and take Him at His Word.

There is no such evidence, save the circular claptrap of it's true because it says so in the bible and everything in the bible is true. Prove your belief with sources external to your bible or just give it up as the lost cause that it is.

 

[metis]

There is excellent evidence to trust Jesus and take Him at His Word.

Yes, and it's called "blind faith" matched with the idolatry of dealing with a book that you think is divine and w/o any error in and of itself.

I read the Bible daily, but I don't for one minute believe that it is inerrant, and the question of "divine inspiration" is just that-- a question, including the question as to degrees of possible "divine inspiration". Christian and Jewish theologians have different ideas about that, and it is virtually impossible to know which, if any, is correct.

 

[shunyadragon]

Polymath and I were talking about proof of the Bible, not evolution/creation, in this message which you hijacked.

Proof of the Bible is not the subject of the thread. Are you high jacking the thread?

You have failed answer the questions to back up your assertions.

For example: What is the evidence for design?

It appears you are taking the stand of propositional apologetics where the Bible is the only reliable evidence for any and all arguments. Is this the case?

The question would relate to your arguments concerning the evidence for the age of the earth and the universe, and the science of evolution, which would be more in line with the thread topic.

 

[gnostic]

Which one of those things did Job do? Did Job, for example, calculate the circumference of the Earth? I don't understand your objection.

Thank you, BilliardsBall, for bringing up this.

BilliardsBall, the book of Job did not say what the circumference of Earth is!!!!

Here is the passage - Job 38:4-5:

4 Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundations? Speak if you have understanding. 5 Do you know who fixed its dimensions Or who measured it with a line?

You obvious don't know to read, BilliardsBall, because I read no numbers in the verses that provide any dimension, any size.

Now I would be very impressed if Job 38:5 claim a number that's fairly accurate, but there are no number or measurement in that verse, which make God's claim knowing the dimension of Earth's circumference to be empty boast.

Do you care to show me a numbers to how many miles, kilometres, leagues the Earth's circumference is? What are the Earth's fixed "dimensions"? What "number" did God say the measurement of this "line"?

You are obvious blind, because you cannot read the bible without making baseless assumptions. You don't see your own blunders in misreading Job's verses, do you?

 

[gnostic]

Why are you being rude to me? What is your agenda here? I thought you were an open-minded researcher, but it seems you hope to disprove the Bible. Why?

No, BilliardsBall, you are dead-wrong.

I am not out to disprove the bible. I am to disprove your interpretations from the bible or your claims about the bible.

You cannot say this or that is true in the bible, unless you have the evidences to back up your claims.

You have made a claim about Job's passage about god knowing the dimension to the Earth's circumference, but it is very apparent that there are no numbers given in verse 38:5.

If God really know the measurements of the Earth, then why do I not see a single number that ACTUALLY reveal the Earth's circumference.

It like you are reading the passage without giving any thought as to what God saying.

Where is the number in miles or kilometres?

God's claim of knowing things are just as empty as your claims.

 

[BilliardsBall]

There is no such evidence, save the circular claptrap of it's true because it says so in the bible and everything in the bible is true. Prove your belief with sources external to your bible or just give it up as the lost cause that it is.

I have never, ever said on this forum--nor have most Christians here EVER said, "it's true 'cause the Bible says so".

The heart of the problem, here, however, is that you are asking for sources external to the Bible. But you can start, in the case of Jesus, for example, with the fact that 12 eyewitnesses wrote their testimonies in 27 documents.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Yes, and it's called "blind faith" matched with the idolatry of dealing with a book that you think is divine and w/o any error in and of itself.

I read the Bible daily, but I don't for one minute believe that it is inerrant, and the question of "divine inspiration" is just that-- a question, including the question as to degrees of possible "divine inspiration". Christian and Jewish theologians have different ideas about that, and it is virtually impossible to know which, if any, is correct.

Where have I EVER written at this thread "I have faith in the Bible for no reason, and faith in Jesus without evidence."

It's like you've never read ONE of my posts. Ever.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Proof of the Bible is not the subject of the thread. Are you high jacking the thread?

You have failed answer the questions to back up your assertions.

For example: What is the evidence for design?

It appears you are taking the stand of propositional apologetics where the Bible is the only reliable evidence for any and all arguments. Is this the case?

The question would relate to your arguments concerning the evidence for the age of the earth and the universe, and the science of evolution, which would be more in line with the thread topic.

Which did you want--to get back to the OP and talk about design in biology and palentology or to (continue to, as you have been doing) argue against God designing ALL?

 

[BilliardsBall]

Thank you, BilliardsBall, for bringing up this.

BilliardsBall, the book of Job did not say what the circumference of Earth is!!!!

Here is the passage - Job 38:4-5:



You obvious don't know to read, BilliardsBall, because I read no numbers in the verses that provide any dimension, any size.

Now I would be very impressed if Job 38:5 claim a number that's fairly accurate, but there are no number or measurement in that verse, which make God's claim knowing the dimension of Earth's circumference to be empty boast.

Do you care to show me a numbers to how many miles, kilometres, leagues the Earth's circumference is? What are the Earth's fixed "dimensions"? What "number" did God say the measurement of this "line"?

You are obvious blind, because you cannot read the bible without making baseless assumptions. You don't see your own blunders in misreading Job's verses, do you?

4 Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundations? Speak if you have understanding. 5 Do you know who fixed its dimensions Or who measured it with a line?

Did I misunderstand something? Foundations are plural, the Earth is singular.

Have I ever said to you, "you are obviously blind, you don't see your own blunders, you make baseless assumptions?"

Instead of us being rude, let's instead covenant to love and care for one another! I'm trusting God with you for great things, brother!

 

[BilliardsBall]

No, BilliardsBall, you are dead-wrong.

I am not out to disprove the bible. I am to disprove your interpretations from the bible or your claims about the bible.

You cannot say this or that is true in the bible, unless you have the evidences to back up your claims.

You have made a claim about Job's passage about god knowing the dimension to the Earth's circumference, but it is very apparent that there are no numbers given in verse 38:5.

If God really know the measurements of the Earth, then why do I not see a single number that ACTUALLY reveal the Earth's circumference.

It like you are reading the passage without giving any thought as to what God saying.

Where is the number in miles or kilometres?

God's claim of knowing things are just as empty as your claims.

Good question, I think, my friend!

If God really know the measurements of the Earth, then why do I not see a single number that ACTUALLY reveal the Earth's circumference.

Are you familiar with the Bible passages that teaches God hides Himself from unrepentant people? Do you understand the Bible doctrine that God offers just enough evidence for us to trust Jesus or to turn away of our free will? Do you think there are good reasons why God won't reveal Himself to some people?

 

[metis]

Where have I EVER written at this thread "I have faith in the Bible for no reason, and faith in Jesus without evidence."

I never assumed that you didn't have reasons.

 

[shunyadragon]

Which did you want--to get back to the OP and talk about design in biology and palentology or to (continue to, as you have been doing) argue against God designing ALL?

My argument is there is no objective verifiable evidence for design.

 

[shunyadragon]

Where have I EVER written at this thread "I have faith in the Bible for no reason, and faith in Jesus without evidence."

It's like you've never read ONE of my posts. Ever.

I asked the question, because you have not offered any objective verifiable evidence, nor science journal evidence to support your argument. Basically you have asserted the negative as far as evolution and an ancient earth billions of years old without supporting references.

You have asserted the authority of Bible several times in this thread in response to the arguments. That is basically a propositional apologetic argument

 

[gnostic]

Did I misunderstand something? Foundations are plural, the Earth is singular.

No, BilliardsBall.

Your claim was that god know the circumference of the earth, but Job didn't. You wrote:

Did Job, for example, calculate the circumference of the Earth?

If so, then where did god ever disclosed the dimension of the Earth's circumference?

I quoted verse 4 & 5, but only 38:5 speak of measuring and dimension:

5 Do you know who fixed its dimensions Or who measured it with a line?

Dimension of circumference would mean number in miles, yards, leagues, kilometres, etc.

So where did God ever accurately state the Earth's circumference? What is this "dimensions" that he "fixed"? What is the line did God "measure"?

If God cannot provide a single number as to the dimension of the Earth, then this passage is nothing more than empty bragging from a very ignorant God.

Come on, BilliardsBall. You have made claim that God know the circumference of the Earth, so back up this claim of yours.

 

[Corvus]

Are you familiar with the Bible passages that teaches God hides Himself from unrepentant people?

That will explain why I haven't seen him.

 

[gnostic]

If God really know the measurements of the Earth, then why do I not see a single number that ACTUALLY reveal the Earth's circumference.

Are you familiar with the Bible passages that teaches God hides Himself from unrepentant people? Do you understand the Bible doctrine that God offers just enough evidence for us to trust Jesus or to turn away of our free will? Do you think there are good reasons why God won't reveal Himself to some people?

If you don't know, then say so.

If you cannot back up your claim, then admit that you have nothing or admit that you claim is wrong.

This reply of yours, is nothing more than evasive tactics; you are moving the goalpost.

You are making apologetic excuses, instead of backing your claims that God know the measurements of Earth's dimensions, such as the circumference.

Lastly, I didn't ask as to why god hides himself. You have made a challenge and responded to you by asking what dimensions that God ever provided, and here you are, once again, failing to address my question, by hiding under the excuses that God don't reveal himself.

This excuse of yours isn't an answer.

So god hide himself from unrepentant?

Well, you haven't been honest with me. So how do God feel about people who lie? Did you repent?

If you did repent, then did God reveal this imaginary number of the Earth's circumference to you?

 

[Sapiens]

I have never, ever said on this forum--nor have most Christians here EVER said, "it's true 'cause the Bible says so".

The heart of the problem, here, however, is that you are asking for sources external to the Bible. But you can start, in the case of Jesus, for example, with the fact that 12 eyewitnesses wrote their testimonies in 27 documents.

Your's is an exceedingly weak position. Not one of your "documents" can be authenticated as to exhibiting their original form and content. Just more believer claptrap.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I asked the question, because you have not offered any objective verifiable evidence, nor science journal evidence to support your argument. Basically you have asserted the negative as far as evolution and an ancient earth billions of years old without supporting references.

You have asserted the authority of Bible several times in this thread in response to the arguments. That is basically a propositional apologetic argument

I asserted the Bible authority when the goalposts moved--by others' doing.

When we consider left-handed aminos and the IMMENSE complexity of a "simple" cell. When we consider the way DNA is not only double-helixed but folds in upon itself to find correct linkages, when we consider how all life is amino acids directing the making of amino acids... it's no wonder most people consider creation evident and self-evident both.

EVERY argument you might give for natural causes can be used by a proponent for intelligent design, be the designer God or alien intelligence.

 

[BilliardsBall]

No, BilliardsBall.

Your claim was that god know the circumference of the earth, but Job didn't. You wrote:



If so, then where did god ever disclosed the dimension of the Earth's circumference?

I quoted verse 4 & 5, but only 38:5 speak of measuring and dimension:



Dimension of circumference would mean number in miles, yards, leagues, kilometres, etc.

So where did God ever accurately state the Earth's circumference? What is this "dimensions" that he "fixed"? What is the line did God "measure"?

If God cannot provide a single number as to the dimension of the Earth, then this passage is nothing more than empty bragging from a very ignorant God.

Come on, BilliardsBall. You have made claim that God know the circumference of the Earth, so back up this claim of yours.

I'm comfortable stating that God who made all the universe 1) knows the circumference of the Earth and 2) per the Bible, hides certain knowledge from you and I to force a free will choice upon us regarding salvation.

I'm also convinced that skeptics who are led to explore the Bible in-depth tend to become Christian converts. But it starts with the hypothesis method--if the Bible was true than X, and not just mocking the Bible without the attendant research.

 

[BilliardsBall]

If you don't know, then say so.

If you cannot back up your claim, then admit that you have nothing or admit that you claim is wrong.

This reply of yours, is nothing more than evasive tactics; you are moving the goalpost.

You are making apologetic excuses, instead of backing your claims that God know the measurements of Earth's dimensions, such as the circumference.

Lastly, I didn't ask as to why god hides himself. You have made a challenge and responded to you by asking what dimensions that God ever provided, and here you are, once again, failing to address my question, by hiding under the excuses that God don't reveal himself.

This excuse of yours isn't an answer.

So god hide himself from unrepentant?

Well, you haven't been honest with me. So how do God feel about people who lie? Did you repent?

If you did repent, then did God reveal this imaginary number of the Earth's circumference to you?

I already knew the Earth's circumference before my conversion. So as a modernist and a rationalist, when I see the Bible saying things like the Earth is a sphere, suspended upon no thing with pathways connecting the seas and that all the hydrologic cycle is indeed a cycle and etc. and etc. I was forced to conclude that the ancient Bible writers knew the omniscient God.