Evidence For And Against Evolution

[Polymath257]

So what happened to gorillas, chimps, and the closest relatives to homo sapiens? Why aren't they building cities and developing writing?

They didn't move out to the grasslands, so didn't need to hunt and so didn't need to communicate as much.

 

[Polymath257]

You know that man had no need of writing, as you figure gorillas also have no need of writing. And others. Only humans have developed writing. A rather fantastic tool. Which you say others have no need of. And you know this, how? Because you say gorillas and cockroaches do not trade.

One of the points, though, is that we have had it for such a short period of time that all you can say is that we are the first to get it.

 

[YoursTrue]

One of the points, though, is that we have had it for such a short period of time that all you can say is that we are the first to get it.

The others either have no need for transmitting records of their history or in the odd sense of evolution, just don't have the capability to invent writing and their natural state is telling them they need it. As surmised by those writing about death anxiety.

 

[Polymath257]

The others either have no need for transmitting records of their history or in the odd sense of evolution, just don't have the capability to invent writing and their natural state is telling them they need it. As surmised by those writing about death anxiety.

Let's see what the other great apes look like in another 10 million years or so. That's pretty short on a geological time scale.

 

[YoursTrue]

One of the points, though, is that we have had it for such a short period of time that all you can say is that we are the first to get it.

Maybe they haven't discovered fossils of writings from ape-ancestor-relatives. Maybe their older ape relatives had writing skills but decided they don't need it and it got into their brains genetically and stayed their so as not to learn or teach writing.

 

[YoursTrue]

Let's see what the other great apes look like in another 10 million years or so. That's pretty short on a geological time scale.

Maybe scientists will reinstate your body cells so you can be around.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

The others either have no need for transmitting records of their history or in the odd sense of evolution, just don't have the capability to invent writing and their natural state is telling them they need it. As surmised by those writing about death anxiety.

What if writing is not a trait that evolved, but the consequence of a trait that evolved?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Maybe scientists will reinstate your body cells so you can be around.

You have stated a number of times that you had good grades simply because you gave the answers that were expected. Do you consider that this is how everyone that achieves in education is functioning?

 

[YoursTrue]

They didn't move out to the grasslands, so didn't need to hunt and so didn't need to communicate as much.

Too bad the animals that are losing their natural habitat and their populations being decimated protect themselves by arming themselves against humans who are intent on hurting them. You know, like informing others like in writing or communication, or building fortified cities. Guess there is no need to, as far as death anxiety goes.

 

[gnostic]

Somehow I think your question as to why would gorillas (apes before what you believe are human apes) develop writing be a strawman, or to put it in a different form, not a solid question. So, yes -- why would gorillas develop a system of writing? Yes, why would they? They are happy hanging from trees, aren't they? They're happy not building cities, just careening from place to place in a local fashion. No development there. They're happy. I think.

No one said anything about humans evolving from gorillas. No biologists think this.

So this is your strawman argument.

Humans did develop writing, and they did build cities. Yes.

Gorillas didn’t do either. Yes.

No one is going to argue either.

But humans are apes, and gorillas are apes. Humans are also mammals, so are gorillas, dogs, cats, horses, bears, and so on.

Mammal is umbrella term for all animals that have some physical or biological traits in common, eg being warm blooded, being vertebrae, having either hair or fur, females that can give live birth and can secrete milk.

Ape or the Hominidae (“great apes”) is another umbrella term for specific families, genera and species, in which all biological features that they share in common.

 

[ecco]

You know that man had no need of writing, as you figure gorillas also have no need of writing. And others. Only humans have developed writing. A rather fantastic tool. Which you say others have no need of. And you know this, how? Because you say gorillas and cockroaches do not trade.

So are you saying that cockroaches have developed manufacturing and farming and therefore need writing?

They do communicate, but the don't NEED a complex language. Ditto Gorillas. You really have a very poor understanding of nature. Why is that? Does your religion forbid understanding nature?

 

[ecco]

I guess you believe that angels wrote down that the serpent tempted Eve who tempted Adam who ate the fruit that got him and Eve thrown out of the Garden of Eden.

I guess you believe that angels wrote down the reason that Cain murdered Abel and the method he used.

Considering the Bible writers obsession with begetting, it's surprising that the angels didn't write down what combinations of Eve and Adam and Abel and Cain and siblings created more and more people.

It's too bad that the angels didn't write down who they gave all this information to.

That is not what I said. (No, I don't believe what you guess I believe.)

It's part of what you said. What you said was:

except that somehow God transmitted that information to Moses, either by angels -- which I believe in -- or by word of mouth from his predecessors.

You gave two possible alternatives. Angels and "word of mouth". If it wasn't angels, it was word of mouth. Now please explain what that means. Who are "his predecessors"? Whose predecessors are you referring to? Remember, the question is who recorded the early events of Genesis. We can always get to the Flood later.​

 

[YoursTrue]

No one said anything about humans evolving from gorillas. No biologists think this.

So this is your strawman argument.

Humans did develop writing, and they did build cities. Yes.

Gorillas didn’t do either. Yes.

No one is going to argue either.

But humans are apes, and gorillas are apes. Humans are also mammals, so are gorillas, dogs, cats, horses, bears, and so on.

Mammal is umbrella term for all animals that have some physical or biological traits in common, eg being warm blooded, being vertebrae, having either hair or fur, females that can give live birth and can secrete milk.

Ape or the Hominidae (“great apes”) is another umbrella term for specific families, genera and species, in which all biological features that they share in common.

Humans and gorillas are in the same family, are they not? I do not agree that humans are apes. You may say so, others may say so, but I do not agree that they evolved from some so-far unknown exact relative of the ape family. So, no, you may call humans apes, I do not. I notice you did not say that humans are gorillas and gorillas are humans. But, according to you, they are closely related. Humans are supposed to have evolved from some unknown type of ape, if I understand this correctly.

 

[YoursTrue]

It's part of what you said. What you said was:

except that somehow God transmitted that information to Moses, either by angels -- which I believe in -- or by word of mouth from his predecessors.

You gave two possible alternatives. Angels and "word of mouth". If it wasn't angels, it was word of mouth. Now please explain what that means. Who are "his predecessors"? Whose predecessors are you referring to? Remember, the question is who recorded the early events of Genesis. We can always get to the Flood later.​

According to the information presented, Moses received information from previous writings and history, as well as angels. Now I have a question for you about evolution: some, if not all, evolutionists believe that life could have arisen somehow chemically and biologically in distant areas of the universe. The question is this: do you believe that is true?

 

[YoursTrue]

According to the information presented, Moses received information from previous writings and history, as well as angels. Now I have a question for you about evolution: some, if not all, evolutionists believe that life could have arisen somehow chemically and biologically in distant areas of the universe. The question is this: do you believe that is true?

When I said "word of mouth," it could have been in writing also, not simply related events verbally.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Humans and gorillas are in the same family, are they not? I do not agree that humans are apes. You may say so, others may say so, but I do not agree that they evolved from some so-far unknown exact relative of the ape family. So, no, you may call humans apes, I do not. I notice you did not say that humans are gorillas and gorillas are humans. But, according to you, they are closely related. Humans are supposed to have evolved from some unknown type of ape, if I understand this correctly.

Just as wolves are not foxes but both are canids, humans are not gorillas, but both are apes.

I have to ask you a question. Why do you think that God lied?

 

[Subduction Zone]

When I said "word of mouth," it could have been in writing also, not simply related events verbally.

Are you not aware that there never was an exodus"? That Moses is a mythical person. They historical evidence cannot find him, and yet he should have left signs of the massive migration.

 

[YoursTrue]

No one said anything about humans evolving from gorillas. No biologists think this.

So this is your strawman argument.

Humans did develop writing, and they did build cities. Yes.

Gorillas didn’t do either. Yes.

No one is going to argue either.

But humans are apes, and gorillas are apes. Humans are also mammals, so are gorillas, dogs, cats, horses, bears, and so on.

Mammal is umbrella term for all animals that have some physical or biological traits in common, eg being warm blooded, being vertebrae, having either hair or fur, females that can give live birth and can secrete milk.

Ape or the Hominidae (“great apes”) is another umbrella term for specific families, genera and species, in which all biological features that they share in common.

Gould wrote something interesting in the New Scientist some years ago. (Feb. 8, 1979) Here's what he said about homo sapiens. "Homo sapiens is a markedly deviant animal in more ways than braininess alone. We live about three times as long as mammals of our body size "should," but we breathe at the "right" rate, and thus live to breathe about three times as much as an average mammal of our body size." So--homo sapiens are different from other mammals in at least two marked ways.

 

[YoursTrue]

Just as wolves are not foxes but both are canids, humans are not gorillas, but both are apes.

I have to ask you a question. Why do you think that God lied?

About what? You keep bringing this up.
Yes, I understand what they are called. I don't generally look at a person (and by person, I mean human, not a gorilla or chimpanzee), and think, "Oh, he (or she) is a nice-looking ape." I'll call gorillas gorillas because they are supposed to be in the same family, predecessors perhaps? Besides, what ape-like being IS a predecessor of a homo sapien? Do you know, and what is your proof? Naturally there's no writing to prove the predecessor's existence, of course.

 

[YoursTrue]

Are you not aware that there never was an exodus"? That Moses is a mythical person. They historical evidence cannot find him, and yet he should have left signs of the massive migration.

So you say. They keep discovering things, the wilderness is a big place. Just imagine after all those years excavationists have discovered a skull or two wherever.