Evidence For And Against Evolution

[Jose Fly]

The ID explanation is just the claim that that an intelligent designer is the cause of the FT that we observe in the universe

What "intelligent designer"?

just like you would say that an inteligent designer is the cause of artwork, tools, pottery, buildings etc.

All those things are made by humans. Are you saying humans were the cause of FT in the universe?

Quite frankly I don’t know what type of answer are you expecting, should I provide a source that explains the ID position with more detail?

Oh I know exactly what to expect. It's not like you're the first person to try and employ the fallacy of shifting the burden of proof to try and put ID creationism on equal footing with science.

Just to be clear, I would be the first one to admit that I don’t understand your question, and I don’t understand what kind of answer are you expecting, so before insulting and accusing me for making a straw man please explain with detail what exactly your question is.

It's very simple. If you're going to posit "intelligent design" as an explanation for anything, you need to do more than just assert it and grant it default status by fiat.

 

[Jose Fly]

I just wonder how long this will go on. Could be a record -level attempt at belaboring the point.

Plus, it's funny how they seem to think they're the first ones to try this, and the rest of us will all be blown away by their "arguments".

 

[Polymath257]

Because you're doing everything you can to avoid actually saying what "ID's explanation" is. Until you do that, it's impossible for anyone to evaluate it, or compare it to anything else.

The ID explanation is just the claim that that an intelligent designer is the cause of the FT that we observe in the universe, just like you would say that an inteligent designer is the cause of artwork, tools, pottery, buildings etc. if astronauts ever find that stuff in other planets. Quite frankly I don’t know what type of answer are you expecting, should I provide a source that explains the ID position with more detail?

If I ask how a piece of pottery came into existence, saying that some unknown person did it isn't an answer. Saying *how* they did it, what processes were used, what materials, where those materials were obtained, etc. *is* an answer. or saying that a specific person or culture did it by the processes already determined by that culture is another answer.

But just saying some intelligence did it *isn't* an answer.

The same can be said for all the other objects you mention. To simply say 'some intelligence did it' just isn't an answer: HOW did they do it? Which what materials? In what order? How did they get the materials? how did they learn the technology to be able to do it?

But simply saying someone did it just isn't an explanation at all.

Just to be clear, I would be the first one to admit that I don’t understand your question, and I don’t understand what kind of answer are you expecting, so before insulting and accusing me for making a straw man please explain with detail what exactly your question is.

 

[Jose Fly]

But simply saying someone did it just isn't an explanation at all.

And he's not even doing that. All he's said is that an "intelligent designer" did it, but he hasn't said what that "designer" is. Is it a "someone"? A "something"? An "other"?

 

[dad]

I have repeatedly posted evidence.

Link? (for about maybe the tenth time you are asked)

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

And he's not even doing that. All he's said is that an "intelligent designer" did it, but he hasn't said what that "designer" is. Is it a "someone"? A "something"? An "other"?

It becomes only funnier when in other discussions, this "designer" is then "defined" as some "unknowable entity" that "exists outside of spacetime" - making it completely consistent with any non-existing entity you can think off.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Link? (for about maybe the tenth time you are asked)

Gladly. Once you learn what is and what is not evidence. Are you ready to learn? Remember, you cannot demand evidence if you do not understand the concept.

 

[dad]

Gladly. .

For the 11th time then, --link?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Plus, it's funny how they seem to think they're the first ones to try this, and the rest of us will all be blown away by their "arguments".

Teacher says that every time a creationist repeats an ancient and well-refuted assertion an angel gets its wings

 

[Subduction Zone]

For the 11th time then, --link?

It is dishonest to improperly edit a quote. For the 11th time, when you learn what is and what is not evidence.

Are you ready to learn?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Gladly. Once you learn what is and what is not evidence. Are you ready to learn? Remember, you cannot demand evidence if you do not understand the concept.

I believe the window of opportunity for education for some people closed (was slammed shut) a long time ago. All the space available is crowded with dogma, doctrine, and denial (the three D's). No room for novelty, reason, or critical thought.I

Creationism in 3D. In heavy rotation at a forum near you.

 

[Jose Fly]

It becomes only funnier when in other discussions, this "designer" is then "defined" as some "unknowable entity" that "exists outside of spacetime" - making it completely consistent with any non-existing entity you can think off.

Yup. This is nothing more than invoking a God of the Gaps fallacy, in an attempt to prop up the belief that "God did it".

 

[Dan From Smithville]

It is dishonest to improperly edit a quote. For the 11th time, when you learn what is and what is not evidence.

Are you ready to learn?

I see. A hyperlink. I thought it was an attempt to contact Odo and the Founders from DS9. A fictional race of alien changlings as the designer has just as much evidence as any other option.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Because you're doing everything you can to avoid actually saying what "ID's explanation" is. Until you do that, it's impossible for anyone to evaluate it, or compare it to anything else.

The ID explanation is just the claim that that an intelligent designer is the cause of the FT that we observe in the universe, just like you would say that an inteligent designer is the cause of artwork, tools, pottery, buildings etc. if astronauts ever find that stuff in other planets. Quite frankly I don’t know what type of answer are you expecting, should I provide a source that explains the ID position with more detail?

Just to be clear, I would be the first one to admit that I don’t understand your question, and I don’t understand what kind of answer are you expecting, so before insulting and accusing me for making a straw man please explain with detail what exactly your question is.

It is expected that you will support your assertion. It is a reasonable and valid expectation.

Imagine you are traveling across a great plain of grassland. Your point of destination is directly in front of you. There are no bushes to beat around. Just go straight to your point.

Human artifacts demonstrate human intelligence and tell us nothing about the existence of a designer. I hope that is not your argument. It is a non sequitur.

 

[ecco]

The point that I am making is that it is very easy to be a YEC if one is allowed to use atheist logic,

"Atheist Logic" AKA logic, is to accept the accumulated knowledge of mankind.

Not so with Fundy YECS.

The keys to becoming a fundamentalist YEC.

• Be born into a family or community that has a fundamentalist view of scripture.
• Be instilled with a sense of God every day in everything.
• Go to church regularly. Go to Bible classes. It helps but it is not necessary to be homeschooled (by people who are fundamentalists).
• Accept that science and scientists are evil devil worshippers.
• Reject the accumulated knowledge of mankind.

I'm sure there are many other similar things.

 

[ecco]

Fine-Tuned for what?


Cockroaches have lived for over 300,000,000 years; humans have been around for 100,000.

Why did the Intelligent Designer Fine Tune the Earth for cockroaches?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Fine-Tuned for what?


Cockroaches have lived for over 300,000,000 years; humans have been around for 100,000.

Why did the Intelligent Designer Fine Tune the Earth for cockroaches?

With over 10 million species of insects estimated to exist and countless individuals among those species, insects, as a group, would appear to be the target group for fine tuning. Of course, they didn't reckon on us.

 

[Jose Fly]

With over 10 million species of insects estimated to exist and countless individuals among those species, insects, as a group, would appear to be the target group for fine tuning. Of course, they didn't reckon on us.

As J.B.S Haldane noted in his 1949 book What is Life? The Layman's View of Nature, "The Creator would appear as endowed with a passion for stars, on the one hand, and for beetles on the other...".

 

[Subduction Zone]

I believe the window of opportunity for education for some people closed (was slammed shut) a long time ago. All the space available is crowded with dogma, doctrine, and denial (the three D's). No room for novelty, reason, or critical thought.I

Creationism in 3D. In heavy rotation at a forum near you.

dad has been debating this long enough so that he knows there is plenty of evidence out there against him. His only "defense" is to at least pretend that he does not understand what is and what is not evidence.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

As J.B.S Haldane noted in his 1949 book What is Life? The Layman's View of Nature, "The Creator would appear as endowed with a passion for stars, on the one hand, and for beetles on the other...".

A favorite of mine. I have a passion for those little critters too.