"Evidence" for God - Continued from another thread

[Dogknox20]

Of course I can support mine.

First off you seem to think that you know a lot about God. The prove it. You might start by trying to prove his existence. You seem to think that yelling is evidence. it is not. You have not provided one whit of evidence yet.

Perhaps you should learn what is and what is not eivdence.

By the way, the burden of proof is upon you when it comes to God. Or even to miracles. I do not know of any miracles at all. I know of misunderstood events. But no miracles.

.
NO... The burden of proof is upon you when it comes to rejecting God. You cannot prove there is NOT a God! All you have is your unprovable theory!
You know of no Miracles? Google ... Dancing sun! You cannot prove there are NOT Miracles!

You do know; you refuse to admit them as facts! There are Miracles!

God is Spirit!
There are spirits, people see Ghosts! There is a Spirit world! You cannot prove there are NOT Spirits!

There is Good and there is Evil you see the result of Good and the result of Evil God is the Good we find around us! You cannot prove there in NOT Good!

 

[Subduction Zone]

.
NO... The burden of proof is upon you when it comes to rejecting God. You cannot prove there is NOT a God! All you have is your unprovable theory!
You know of no Miracles? Google ... Dancing sun! You cannot prove there are NOT Miracles!

You do know; you refuse to admit them as facts! There are Miracles!

God is Spirit!
There are spirits, people see Ghosts! There is a Spirit world! You cannot prove there are NOT Spirits!

There is Good and there is Evil you see the result of Good and the result of Evil God is the Good we find around us! You cannot prove there in NOT Good!

How old are you? You can't be 69. Surely you learned what evidence is and how to support your claims. As I said, People saying that they saw ghosts does not prove that ghosts exist. People get excited. They misinterpret what they saw. It happens all of the time. I do not know of any miracles that are at all reliable or of any ghost sightings that are reliable.

 

[Dogknox20]

How old are you? You can't be 69. Surely you learned what evidence is and how to support your claims. As I said, People saying that they saw ghosts does not prove that ghosts exist. People get excited. They misinterpret what they saw. It happens all of the time. I do not know of any miracles that are at all reliable or of any ghost sightings that are reliable.

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Fact... People believe in Spirits! People have claimed to have seen Ghosts! Your Excuse for rejecting Ghosts is very childish.. You Believe there are NO Ghosts because you Believe all of these people over the centuries are wrong!
Subduction Zone The North American Indian Believed in "A Great White SPIRIT"! Are you also going to say.. They misinterpret what they saw. It happens all of the time.
You can fool some of the people some of the time but not all the people all the time! People believe in Ghosts!
Shakespeare as Ghosts in his plays!
The Scriptures have Ghosts written there... The scriptures go back more then 2000 years.. People have always believed in Ghosts!

People in NDE see God and Satan! If we have NDE and see God then the Cave Man (Ancient Man) has seen God in their NDE!

There are Miracles in every age!
Google ... Dancing sun! You cannot prove there are NOT Miracles!
............................................................................................
Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

mir·a·cle
/ˈmirək(ə)l/
Learn to pronounce

noun
plural noun: miracles

1. a surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore considered to be the work of a divine agency.
   "the miracle of rising from the grave"
   
   Similar:
   supernatural phenomenon
   mystery
   
   prodigy
   
   sign
   
   • a highly improbable or extraordinary event, development, or accomplishment that brings very welcome consequences.
     "it was a miracle that more people hadn't been killed or injured"
   • an amazing product or achievement, or an outstanding example of something.
     "a machine which was a miracle of design"

 

[Subduction Zone]

.
Fact... People believe in Spirits! People have claimed to have seen Ghosts! Your Excuse for rejecting Ghosts is very childish.. You Believe there are NO Ghosts because you Believe all of these people over the centuries are wrong!
Subduction Zone The North American Indian Believed in "A Great White SPIRIT"! Are you also going to say.. They misinterpret what they saw. It happens all of the time.
You can fool some of the people some of the time but not all the people all the time! People believe in Ghosts!
Shakespeare as Ghosts in his plays!
The Scriptures have Ghosts written there... The scriptures go back more then 2000 years.. People have always believed in Ghosts!

People in NDE see God and Satan! If we have NDE and see God then the Cave Man (Ancient Man) has seen God in their NDE!

There are Miracles in every age!
Google ... Dancing sun! You cannot prove there are NOT Miracles!
............................................................................................
Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

mir·a·cle
/ˈmirək(ə)l/
Learn to pronounce

noun
plural noun: miracles

1. a surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore considered to be the work of a divine agency.
   "the miracle of rising from the grave"
   
   Similar:
   supernatural phenomenon
   mystery
   
   prodigy
   
   sign
   • a highly improbable or extraordinary event, development, or accomplishment that brings very welcome consequences.
     "it was a miracle that more people hadn't been killed or injured"
   • an amazing product or achievement, or an outstanding example of something.
     "a machine which was a miracle of design"

And all of this nonsense can be refuted with just two words:

So what?

Can you try to come up with a rational evidence based argument for your beliefs? Excessive use of Green Ink only tells us that you cannot do so.

You have not shown evidence for any miracles, or ghosts, or spirits or Gods. Your argument is so weak that only two words are needed to refute it.

 

[shunyadragon]

.
Fact... People believe in Spirits! People have claimed to have seen Ghosts! Your Excuse for rejecting Ghosts is very childish.. You Believe there are NO Ghosts because you Believe all of these people over the centuries are wrong!
Subduction Zone The North American Indian Believed in "A Great White SPIRIT"! Are you also going to say.. They misinterpret what they saw. It happens all of the time.
You can fool some of the people some of the time but not all the people all the time! People believe in Ghosts!
Shakespeare as Ghosts in his plays!
The Scriptures have Ghosts written there... The scriptures go back more then 2000 years.. People have always believed in Ghosts!

People in NDE see God and Satan! If we have NDE and see God then the Cave Man (Ancient Man) has seen God in their NDE!

There are Miracles in every age!
Google ... Dancing sun! You cannot prove there are NOT Miracles!
............................................................................................
Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

mir·a·cle
/ˈmirək(ə)l/
Learn to pronounce

noun
plural noun: miracles

1. a surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore considered to be the work of a divine agency.
   "the miracle of rising from the grave"
   
   Similar:
   supernatural phenomenon
   mystery
   
   prodigy
   
   sign
   • a highly improbable or extraordinary event, development, or accomplishment that brings very welcome consequences.
     "it was a miracle that more people hadn't been killed or injured"
   • an amazing product or achievement, or an outstanding example of something.
     "a machine which was a miracle of design"

Challenging someone to prove the negative is a fallacy in logic. It is up to the person making the claim to prove their case.

There are good reasons to reject or doubt the existence of Gods, Spirits, Ghosts, works of Divine agencies, miracles and other supernatural phenomena because they are subjective claims without objectively verifiable evidence,

The word after miracle in the dictionary is mirage.

 

[SkepticThinker]

People believe in MIRICALS! Miracles happen in every century! Miracles point to God!

How does one demonstrate that a miracle has occurred?
How does one demonstrate that the occurrence of a miracle, "points to God," exactly?
What is a "miracle?"

 

[Dogknox20]

How does one demonstrate that a miracle has occurred?
How does one demonstrate that the occurrence of a miracle, "points to God," exactly?
What is a "miracle?"

SkepticThinker all good question..

I reply: Miracles come from God! The Dictionary tells you Miracles are "Attributed to a Deity"!

Example: The "Dancing of the sun" miracle was announced by the Virgin Mary that she would perform a Miracle in one month on Oct 13 at noon! At noon 70,000 people showed up, most of them were sceptics! The News Paper reporters showed up with their cameras! Before noon it rained "Cats & Dogs" people were socked to the skin mud were everywhere! Then the sun moved back and forth in the sky it spin giving off colors, the people were dry there was no mud! Mary appeared to three Children as people requested she cured many people during the months before the "Dancing of the sun" miracle!

Also In Lourdes France Mary appeared to a young girl ... on 11 February 1858, the 14-year-old local girl Bernadette Soubirous claimed a beautiful lady appeared to her in the remote Grotto of Massabielle. This lady later identified herself as "the Immaculate Conception" and the faithful believed her to be the Blessed Virgin Mary. The lady appeared 18 times, and by 1859 thousands of pilgrims were visiting Lourdes. A statue of Our Lady of Lourdes was erected at the site in 1864.
If you look at Google: you will get the full story!

 

[SkepticThinker]

SkepticThinker all good question..

I reply: Miracles come from God! The Dictionary tells you Miracles are "Attributed to a Deity"!

Example: The "Dancing of the sun" miracle was announced by the Virgin Mary that she would perform a Miracle in one month on Oct 13 at noon! At noon 70,000 people showed up, most of them were sceptics! The News Paper reporters showed up with their cameras! Before noon it rained "Cats & Dogs" people were socked to the skin mud were everywhere! Then the sun moved back and forth in the sky it spin giving off colors, the people were dry there was no mud! Mary appeared to three Children as people requested she cured many people during the months before the "Dancing of the sun" miracle!

Also In Lourdes France Mary appeared to a young girl ... on 11 February 1858, the 14-year-old local girl Bernadette Soubirous claimed a beautiful lady appeared to her in the remote Grotto of Massabielle. This lady later identified herself as "the Immaculate Conception" and the faithful believed her to be the Blessed Virgin Mary. The lady appeared 18 times, and by 1859 thousands of pilgrims were visiting Lourdes. A statue of Our Lady of Lourdes was erected at the site in 1864.
If you look at Google: you will get the full story!

Good questions with no answers, apparently.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Good questions with no answers, apparently.

I could not find the source for his quote, but interestingly when I used copied the quote and Google searched it the first response that I got was this article refuting the miracle at Lourdes:

Rosa Rubicondior: Faking It At Lourdes

 

[Twilight Hue]

Continued from this post:
Why I’m not atheist or agnostic.



I would like sources for each of your following claims:

• That people have discovered relatives they did not know they had in NDEs
• That all "cave men" believed in an afterlife (since as far as I'm aware, the specifics of Neolithic religion remain mysterious to us, but several ancient religions did not have a concept of an afterlife)

On top of that, you are incorrect that NDEs being "vivid dreams caused by losing consciousness when your brain is low on oxygen" is a theory. It's a sustained working hypothesis. That means that it's supported by evidence and experimentation. It could be wrong, but you would have to provide evidence that falsifies it.

I have seen the "miracle of the sun," but by your own definition a miracle is:



I am not sure how the "miracle of the sun" counts as a miracle by your definition. Can you prove that the "miracle of the sun" had a supernatural or praternatural cause?

NDE experiences can be reproduced by simply sitting in a pilot centerfuge experiencing massive g forces. Oxygen and brains can make for some crazy vivid stuff!

 

[Dogknox20]

Challenging someone to prove the negative is a fallacy in logic. It is up to the person making the claim to prove their case.

There are good reasons to reject or doubt the existence of Gods, Spirits, Ghosts, works of Divine agencies, miracles and other supernatural phenomena because they are subjective claims without objectively verifiable evidence,

The word after miracle in the dictionary is mirage.

.
shunyadragon good to meet you..
When someone makes a statement.. They are expressing their belief! Saying "There is NO god" is a belief!
They have to prove or justify there belief!

"There are NO Unicorns" is a belief! "The sun will rise tomorrow" is also belief, some beliefs are easier to prove then others! Question: Have you see a Unicorn? Have you seen God?
shunyadragon Question... “Does God exist?”

Showing God does not exist does not mean atheism is true.
If you want to demonstrate that atheism is true, you an atheist would have to provide evidence that there is no God just as a defense attorney would have to provide further evidence to show his client is innocent as opposed to being just “not guilty.”

Have you ever heard of “presumed innocent until proven guilty.” You the atheist also has a belief (namely, “God does not exist” or “There are no gods”), and you also should have a reason for his belief. The atheist should share the burden of proof to the same extent as the theist.

 

[Dogknox20]

I could not find the source for his quote, but interestingly when I used copied the quote and Google searched it the first response that I got was this article refuting the miracle at Lourdes:

Rosa Rubicondior: Faking It At Lourdes

For those who believe in God, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not believe in God, no explanation will suffice.

People are cured at Lourdes, this is a fact! The evidence is, cured people!

 

[Dogknox20]

NDE experiences can be reproduced by simply sitting in a pilot centerfuge experiencing massive g forces. Oxygen and brains can make for some crazy vivid stuff!

.

Twilight Hue I point out... NDE has changed people for the better! NDE must have happened to ancient man as it happens to us today! Thus "Ancient Man" buries tools and other cherished stuff with their dead, for use in the next life! Man has always believed in a god/gods of some sort! DOES ...

Twilight Hue does not matter how it happens; it happens! In a NDE people have found relatives they did not know they had! Many have see God or even Satan!

 

[Subduction Zone]

For those who believe in God, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not believe in God, no explanation will suffice.

People are cured at Lourdes, this is a fact! The evidence is, cured people!

No. It is a claim. It is not a fact. Yelling and stamping your feet does not make a claim a fact. Perhaps you should learn what a fact is.

 

[Dogknox20]

Good questions with no answers, apparently.

SkepticThinker there are Miracles! Prove to me there are not Miracles!

Why should you care for your children they are going to die anyway; you should reject religion because it brings you comfort. Why should comfort be the reason to reject religion?
SkepticThinker How ridiculous would it be to reject every idea that brings us comfort—because it brings comfort?
Reject God "There is NO God" now you cannot sin!: Now you do not need to be good! Your excuse is: "What does it matter to me?!"

 

[Dogknox20]

No. It is a claim. It is not a fact. Yelling and stamping your feet does not make a claim a fact. Perhaps you should learn what a fact is.

A fact is NOT a belief... Fact.. People are cured at Lourdes!

 

[Subduction Zone]

SkepticThinker there are Miracles! Prove to me there are not Miracles!

Why should you care for your children they are going to die anyway; you should reject religion because it brings you comfort. Why should comfort be the reason to reject religion?
SkepticThinker How ridiculous would it be to reject every idea that brings us comfort—because it brings comfort?
Reject God "There is NO God" now you cannot sin!: Now you do not need to be good! Your excuse is: "What does it matter to me?!"

Sorry but the burden of proof is upon you when it comes to the existence of miracles the burden of proof is upon you.

I have a magical invisible blue dragon in my garage, Do I need to add a few exclamation points? Okay !!!!!

So now you need to prove that I do not have a magical invisible blue dragon in my garage.

 

[Subduction Zone]

A fact is NOT a belief... Fact.. People are cured at Lourdes!

Then prove it with cases where it was documented that a person was ill before they went to Lourdes, it needs to be more than just a doctor saying that person was ill, and then show documented evidence that the person was cured after they went to Lourdes.

And lastly prove that the cure came from Lourdes and not some other source.

 

[shunyadragon]

d

.
shunyadragon good to meet you..
When someone makes a statement.. They are expressing their belief! Saying "There is NO god" is a belief!
They have to prove or justify their belief!.

First, the rules of logic state that it is the responsibility of the party who makes the positive claim is responsible for proof of that claim.

Second, the dominant belief among atheists is there is 'no reason' to believe in God because there is no objectively verifiable evidence for the existence of God. It is a legitimate problem from the atheist and agnostic perspective that there are to many beliefs in diverse and conflicting beliefs in God or Gods. Objectively which one is the true God or Gods

"There are NO Unicorns" is a belief! "The sun will rise tomorrow" is also a belief, some beliefs are easier to prove than others! Question: Have you see a Unicorn? Have you seen God?
shunyadragon Question... “Does God exist?”

IT is hard to answer the question based on the history of your posts. There is absolutely no objective evidence of God, miracles, unicorns, angels, or other supernatural beings or spiritual worlds beyond our physical world.

I believe there is a universal 'Source' some call God as a Baha'i and philosophically a universalist, The conclusion is if God exists God exists beyond the narrow belief of ancient tribal world views like Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, and they are irrational and illogical. from the perspective of a universal being Creator 'Source' of all of existence.

I realize my belief is without objective evidence or logical proof, but far more reasonable than the narrow beliefs of individual ancient tribal religions, where each one claims their God or Gods are true.

 

[SkepticThinker]

.
shunyadragon good to meet you..
When someone makes a statement.. They are expressing their belief! Saying "There is NO god" is a belief!
They have to prove or justify there belief!

"There are NO Unicorns" is a belief! "The sun will rise tomorrow" is also belief, some beliefs are easier to prove then others! Question: Have you see a Unicorn? Have you seen God?
shunyadragon Question... “Does God exist?” [/quop

Showing God does not exist does not mean atheism is true.
If you want to demonstrate that atheism is true, you an atheist would have to provide evidence that there is no God just as a defense attorney would have to provide further evidence to show his client is innocent as opposed to being just “not guilty.”

Have you ever heard of “presumed innocent until proven guilty.” You the atheist also has a belief (namely, “God does not exist” or “There are no gods”), and you also should have a reason for his belief. The atheist should share the burden of proof to the same extent as the theist.

I haven't seen any atheists on this thread declaring that "God does not exist" so I don't know why you're going there. Atheists just lack belief in god(s). They don't necessarily say "there is no god" (I don't). So I, as an atheist, do not have a belief in god(s),which is not the same thing as claiming that there are no god(s).

But, as in your example:

If it were shown that God does not exist, then the atheist position of "I lack belief in god(s)" would be true.
If it were shown that God does not exist,, then the atheist position of "There is no god(s)" would also be true.