"Evidence" for God - Continued from another thread

[Dogknox20]

I see you edited your post.

Who said anything about NDE? Oh you did ... I certainly didn't so don't imp!y tjst i have, its very rude.

My point has always been to contend you claim



For which there is no evidence

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Continuation of post #20 (above)
Ella S wants evidence for a god!

The evidence is a belief in an after life! Thus NDE!
The evidence is a belief in the Spirit world! You cannot tell me no one has ever seen a Ghost!
The evidence is "Man has always believed in a god" of some sort!
The evidence is Miracles! They have happened to thousands of people in every century! Miracles are attributed to God!

 

[ChristineM]

ChristineM The point is... Man has ALWAYS believed in gods of some sort! And it could be they never have doesn't cut it...
All you are doing is saying "They did not believe in gods because they did not come out and say it!"!

I am saying LOGIC says it! FACT: Man has many gods in mans (recorded) history .... As you go back in history the ignorance of man is more profound.. THUS more chance of man having many god's why back then!

ChristineM You cannot say "Ancient man never ever have had "Near Death Experiences"! (NDE)
LOGIC says: If man has NDE today then Man had NDE way back then!

You want evidence?? Theory of gods in mans ancient past falls in my favor!

Where is your evidence that man has always believed in gods.

There is no evidence of any sort for gods prior sumer in the 6 century BC

So no it is not fact it is your belief, and the copious evidence shows your belief is inaccurate

FYI, the early modern human of 25,000bc had a bigger skull, bigger brain case and a 13% bigger brain than todays humans indicating they were far from ignorant but possibly more intelligent in some areas. So if you are using ignorance as a yardstick im afraid you fail miserably.

I have told you, i have NEVER spoken on this thread of NDEs, that is your straw man and it has nothing to do with an afterlife

So if you continue to misrepresent me we can say goodbye right now.

And stomping your foot is not evidence

 

[ChristineM]

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Continuation of post #20 (above)
Ella S wants evidence for a god!

The evidence is a belief in an after life! Thus NDE!
The evidence is a belief in the Spirit world! You cannot tell me no one has ever seen a Ghost!
The evidence is "Man has always believed in a god" of some sort!
The evidence is Miracles! They have happened to thousands of people in every century! Miracles are attributed to God!

An nde is near death. And afterlife is after death. What do you find so difficult to understand here?

Anyone can say they've seen a flying pink elephant, only the gullible believe them

There is no evidence that man has always believed in god.

Unexplained phenomena are said to have happened, often a later explanation removes the unexpected part. Some remain unexplained. Attributing them to a god is not proof of a god, its just proof that people believe a god did it.

None of those points are evidence. Some are confused and some are belief but non are evidence of a god.

 

[Subduction Zone]

ChristineM The point is... Man has ALWAYS believed in gods of some sort! And it could be they never have doesn't cut it...
All you are doing is saying "They did not believe in gods because they did not come out and say it!"!

I am saying LOGIC says it! FACT: Man has many gods in mans (recorded) history .... As you go back in history the ignorance of man is more profound.. THUS more chance of man having many god's why back then!

ChristineM You cannot say "Ancient man never ever have had "Near Death Experiences"! (NDE)
LOGIC says: If man has NDE today then Man had NDE way back then!

You want evidence?? Theory of gods in mans ancient past falls in my favor!

Nice strawman.

By the way, you need to demonstrate how logic says that man always believed in God.

 

[ChristineM]

Nice strawman.

By the way, you need to demonstrate how logic says that man always believed in God.

Proof by foot stomping is a recognised method of demonstrating the validity of proof

 

[gnostic]

The point is... Man has always believed in an "After Life"!

Believing is belief, not fact, and it is not in evidence that the afterlife exist.

Beliefs don’t make it factual. Facts require evidence , not personal belief.

They have always believed in a "Spirit World" of some kind! The title.. ".Cave Man" is used to mean.. Ancient man! or Prehistoric Man! Neanderthal or not!!!!

There are no writings to explain what people painted in the caves in prehistoric times, so the images of these paintings could have a number of different interpretations and meanings, none of them showed that spirit exist or that of the afterlife.

As to NDE, being “near death”, not death, as @Subduction Zone and others have pointed out to you.

The brain “can” still function for some times after the heart stopped pumping blood and a person stopped breathing. As long as there are still oxygen in the brain, brain cells can still fired and function at unconscious level.

Unconscious person still could hear, and they could still dream, as long as the brain cells have died, eg brain dead.

Death occurred when the brain is dead.

Yes, some people recovered in the NDE experiences, but none of that are evidence of the afterlife.

And there are no evidence whatsoever of cavemen drawing afterlife, or that of NDE.

Ad btw, @Dogknox20 , prehistoric people before the introduction of agricultural farming and permanent settlements, during the Neolithic period, humans were largely nomadic: they follow where there are waters and animals.

While some humans would take shelter in caves, they are not permanent settlements, if there are no animals around to hunt. Often, there are no caves around for hundreds of miles, in their paths as they follow animals.

Calling humans “caveman” isn’t accurate.

 

[Dogknox20]

I see you edited your post.

Who said anything about NDE? Oh you did ... I certainly didn't so don't imp!y tjst i have, its very rude.

My point has always been to contend you claim
For which there is no evidence

.
ChristineM I hope all is well.....
You are stuck on this "Caveman" thing! The point is... ANCIENT MAN! Ella S Wants evidence of a god and or a life after death! THUS....

ChristineM thus I point her and you to NDE; I point her to MIRACLES; I point her to the FACT man has always believed in gods; I point out to her God is SPIRIT and people have seen Ghosts! (Ghosts are SPIRITS)!!!!!

 

[Subduction Zone]

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ChristineM I hope all is well.....
You are stuck on this "Caveman" thing! The point is... ANCIENT MAN! Ella S Wants evidence of a god and or a life after death! THUS....

ChristineM thus I point her and you to NDE; I point her to MIRACLES; I point her to the FACT man has always believed in gods; I point out to her God is SPIRIT and people have seen Ghosts! (Ghosts are SPIRITS)!!!!!

Sorry, when you claim that something is a fact you need to be able to back it up.

People only believe that they have seen ghosts. There is no hard evidence for ghosts either.

 

[Dogknox20]

Believing is belief, not fact, and it is not in evidence that the afterlife exist.

Beliefs don’t make it factual. Facts require evidence , not personal belief.



There are no writings to explain what people painted in the caves in prehistoric times, so the images of these paintings could have a number of different interpretations and meanings, none of them showed that spirit exist or that of the afterlife.

As to NDE, being “near death”, not death, as @Subduction Zone and others have pointed out to you.

The brain “can” still function for some times after the heart stopped pumping blood and a person stopped breathing. As long as there are still oxygen in the brain, brain cells can still fired and function at unconscious level.

Unconscious person still could hear, and they could still dream, as long as the brain cells have died, eg brain dead.

Death occurred when the brain is dead.

Yes, some people recovered in the NDE experiences, but none of that are evidence of the afterlife.

And there are no evidence whatsoever of cavemen drawing afterlife, or that of NDE.

Ad btw, @Dogknox20 , prehistoric people before the introduction of agricultural farming and permanent settlements, during the Neolithic period, humans were largely nomadic: they follow where there are waters and animals.

While some humans would take shelter in caves, they are not permanent settlements, if there are no animals around to hunt. Often, there are no caves around for hundreds of miles, in their paths as they follow animals.

Calling humans “caveman” isn’t accurate.

gnostic good to meet you...
Your words... Yes, some people recovered in the NDE experiences, but none of that are evidence of the afterlife.

I am asking you to THINK.... If man has NDE today and they see lost relatives or in some cases relatives they did not know they even had; if a person having a NDE sees a god or in some cases they see pure EVIL and these people TODAY AFTER their NDE have changed their lives because of their NDE: From then on after NDE they are NOT afraid of dying or in the case of those who experienced "Pure Evil" have changed their life for the better then... T H E N....

gnostic then ancient man why back when.. these people also have had NDE that would have changed their lives! They (ancient man) having a NDE and see the SPIRIT WORLD just as the living people today see death as a transition from this world to a new spirit world, then they would believe in gods, they would bury tools in the grave of their dead for use in the next life! You can't say people today are the only people who have NDE! If we have them today T H E N ancient man would also experience ND! IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW the brain does it the fact is: it does! The FACT IS Logical.. Man has always believed in a god an after life a "Spirit World"!
gnostic I point to NDE as a very possible reason for their FAITH in a god and AFTER LIFE!

 

[Subduction Zone]

gnostic good to meet you...
Your words... Yes, some people recovered in the NDE experiences, but none of that are evidence of the afterlife.

I am asking you to THINK.... If man has NDE today and they see lost relatives or in some cases relatives they did not know they even had; if a person having a NDE sees a god or in some cases they see pure EVIL and these people TODAY AFTER their NDE have changed their lives because of their NDE: From then on after NDE they are NOT afraid of dying or in the case of those who experienced "Pure Evil" have changed their life for the better then... T H E N....

gnostic then ancient man why back when.. these people also have had NDE that would have changed their lives! They (ancient man) having a NDE and see the SPIRIT WORLD just as the living people today see death as a transition from this world to a new spirit world, then they would believe in gods, they would bury tools in the grave of their dead for use in the next life! You can't say people today are the only people who have NDE! If we have them today T H E N ancient man would also experience ND! IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW the brain does it the fact is: it does! The FACT IS Logical.. Man has always believed in a god an after life a "Spirit World"!
gnostic I point to NDE as a very possible reason for their FAITH in a god and AFTER LIFE!

It appears that you do not understand what qualifies as either facts or logic.

Just because a person believes that they saw something does not make it a fact. And to even begin to call something a fact you need to beable to demonstrate your claims with reliable sources. And as @ChristineM pointed out, stamping your foot and repeating yourself does not make your arguments logical.

 

[Dogknox20]

Sorry, when you claim that something is a fact you need to be able to back it up.

People only believe that they have seen ghosts. There is no hard evidence for ghosts either.

God is spirit..... Can you see air? NO! You can see what the movement of air does!

Subduction Zone You reject LOGIC! This is a FACT: People believe that they have seen ghosts. They BELIEVE IT!
People believe in MIRICALS! Miracles happen in every century! Miracles point to God!
People have changed their life because of a Near Death Experience!
People believe in God or gods!
People believe in an after life!
People PRAY!

NDE have changed many lives for the better.... People believe in an After Life and or a god because of their NDE; if NDE has changed us today then it would have changed Ancient Man (cave man) the people in our past to believe in a god and an after life!

 

[Subduction Zone]

God is spirit..... Can you see air? NO! You can see what the movement of air does!

Subduction Zone You reject LOGIC! This is a FACT: People believe that they have seen ghosts. They BELIEVE IT!
People believe in MIRICALS! Miracles happen in every century! Miracles point to God!
People have changed their life because of a Near Death Experience!
People believe in God or gods!
People believe in an after life!
People PRAY!

NDE have changed many lives for the better.... People believe in an After Life and or a god because of their NDE; if NDE has changed us today then it would have changed Ancient Man (cave man) the people in our past to believe in a god and an after life!

Stamping your foot and yelling is not logic. It does not make something a fact.

Do you think that you can properly support your claims?

 

[SkepticThinker]

God is spirit..... Can you see air? NO! You can see what the movement of air does!

Subduction Zone You reject LOGIC! This is a FACT: People believe that they have seen ghosts. They BELIEVE IT!
People believe in MIRICALS! Miracles happen in every century! Miracles point to God!
People have changed their life because of a Near Death Experience!
People believe in God or gods!
People believe in an after life!
People PRAY!

NDE have changed many lives for the better.... People believe in an After Life and or a god because of their NDE; if NDE has changed us today then it would have changed Ancient Man (cave man) the people in our past to believe in a god and an after life!

Sorry, where do you think you're using logic here?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sorry, where do you think you're using logic here?

I see a lot of "logic". There are words written using bold letters. There are words using ALL CAPS. There are words using both ALL CAPS AND BOLD LETTERS. And there are exclamation points! Lots and lots of exclamation points!!!!!!!

 

[SkepticThinker]

I see a lot of "logic". There are words written using bold letters. There are words using ALL CAPS. There are words using both ALL CAPS AND BOLD LETTERS. And there are exclamation points! Lots and lots of exclamation points!!!!!!!

Ohhhh, I see it now.

 

[ChristineM]

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ChristineM I hope all is well.....
You are stuck on this "Caveman" thing! The point is... ANCIENT MAN! Ella S Wants evidence of a god and or a life after death! THUS....

ChristineM thus I point her and you to NDE; I point her to MIRACLES; I point her to the FACT man has always believed in gods; I point out to her God is SPIRIT and people have seen Ghosts! (Ghosts are SPIRITS)!!!!!

You made a statement. I am refuting that statement.

Thus you should read and understand my post #23 i made to refute your points.

Provide evidence and not believe in woo and I'll consider the evidence. But making unsubstantiated statements is not evidence

 

[shunyadragon]

Continued from this post:
Why I’m not atheist or agnostic.



I would like sources for each of your following claims:

• That people have discovered relatives they did not know they had in NDEs
• That all "cave men" believed in an afterlife (since as far as I'm aware, the specifics of Neolithic religion remain mysterious to us, but several ancient religions did not have a concept of an afterlife)

On top of that, you are incorrect that NDEs being "vivid dreams caused by losing consciousness when your brain is low on oxygen" is a theory. It's a sustained working hypothesis. That means that it's supported by evidence and experimentation. It could be wrong, but you would have to provide evidence that falsifies it.

I have seen the "miracle of the sun," but by your own definition a miracle is:



I am not sure how the "miracle of the sun" counts as a miracle by your definition. Can you prove that the "miracle of the sun" had a supernatural or praternatural cause?

Non of the above offers any proof for the existence of God. They just represent the nature of being human in response to the unknown, and the natural desire to survive and defeat death which is fruitless regardless of whether God exists or not.

Archaeological and paleontological evidence does support the belief in some sort of afterlife and animism among the most ancient human ancestors, followed in history by the belief in anthropomorphic Gods that has evolved into formes of Monotheism, and limited forms of polytheism like the Tritheism of Trinitarian Christianity.

 

[Dogknox20]

Stamping your foot and yelling is not logic. It does not make something a fact.

Do you think that you can properly support your claims?

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Subduction Zone I can properly support my claims!!

Question is...But can you support yours!???
God is "Spirit"! Can you see God?! NO, so you cannot say; there is no God because I cannot see God! You cannot see "Air"! ... You can see the effects of Air as it moves!

You can see the effects of God as he does his "Miracles"! FACT: There have been "Miracles" in every century!
Subduction Zone Miracles are attributed to God! Explain away Miracles please!
GOOGLE.... "Dancing Sun" Miracle.. 70 thousand people witnessed this miracle! The Blessed Virgin Mary said... "On October 13 noon I will do a Miracle" thousands showed up to see this miracle Newspaper reporters arrived also at NOON as told the sun moved all over the sky!
I can properly support your claims.. "There is a God"!!!
Also; You can see the effects of NDE has on people who have experienced NDE! DOES...

Subduction Zone does not matter how they happen to a person what matters is the changes they have made on a person who has had a NDE!
People have seen God in these NDE; it has changed them.. They are no longer afraid of dyeing after a NDE!

Subduction Zone People with NDE have seen "Relatives they did not know they had"! Explain that to me; how low oxygen in a brain can help a person find relatives they did not know they had!??

People having a NDE have see Pure Evil coming for them! Explain that to me; How can low oxygen in a brain can change a person to improvement after they wake up???!

 

[Dogknox20]

Sorry, where do you think you're using logic here?

People believe in MIRICALS! Miracles happen in every century! Miracles point to God!

 

[Subduction Zone]

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Subduction Zone I can properly support my claims!!

Question is...But can you support yours!???
God is "Spirit"! Can you see God?! NO, so you cannot say; there is no God because I cannot see God! You cannot see "Air"! ... You can see the effects of Air as it moves!

You can see the effects of God as he does his "Miracles"! FACT: There have been "Miracles" in every century!
Subduction Zone Miracles are attributed to God! Explain away Miracles please!
GOOGLE.... "Dancing Sun" Miracle.. 70 thousand people witnessed this miracle! The Blessed Virgin Mary said... "On October 13 noon I will do a Miracle" thousands showed up to see this miracle Newspaper reporters arrived also at NOON as told the sun moved all over the sky!
I can properly support your claims.. "There is a God"!!!
Also; You can see the effects of NDE has on people who have experienced NDE! DOES...

Subduction Zone does not matter how they happen to a person what matters is the changes they have made on a person who has had a NDE!
People have seen God in these NDE; it has changed them.. They are no longer afraid of dyeing after a NDE!

Subduction Zone People with NDE have seen "Relatives they did not know they had"! Explain that to me; how low oxygen in a brain can help a person find relatives they did not know they had!??

People having a NDE have see Pure Evil coming for them! Explain that to me; How can low oxygen in a brain can change a person to improvement after they wake up???!

Of course I can support mine.

First off you seem to think that you know a lot about God. The prove it. You might start by trying to prove his existence. You seem to think that yelling is evidence. it is not. You have not provided one whit of evidence yet.

Perhaps you should learn what is and what is not eivdence.

By the way, the burden of proof is upon you when it comes to God. Or even to miracles. I do not know of any miracles at all. I know of misunderstood events. But no miracles.