Evidence of NOAH's FLOOD

[metis]

By discrediting the YEC interpretation, the Flood is discredited automatically.

As a historical reality, yes; but as a teaching device, no. IMO, you seemingly are overlooking those teachings.

 

[wellwisher]

Here we shall discuss evidence of NOAH's FLOOD. There is ongoing scientific research that has brought to light many interesting finds, that contrary to some or many ---- does in fact point more and more to a monumental worldwide cataclysm that is labelled the FLOOD in GOD's Word: Global Evidences of the Genesis Flood

Isn't man made climate change predicting a major flooding of the earth due to glacial melt? Does this mythology have any proof? Or is this a manmade Noah's Ark knockoff? You guys have your work cut out for you, since Noah only had to gather, one animal of each sex ; male and female. You may need to gather one of each gender.

One conceptual consideration, I thought about, for the Noah flood, is to not assume the current world coast lines were around at the time of Noah, when he was building the Ark. What we have today are after the flood, coast lines. The old world is still under water.

This is similar to the modern mythology assumption of the ocean levels rising due to glacier melt, and much of the world coastline, now visible, will be under water. Someone a thousand years in the future may assume Florida was not always under water, like Atlantis, which others will deny is possible.

I remember a theory about the Isthmus of Gibraltar, where the Atlantic Ocean and Mediterranean Sea meet. They theorize this modern open passage, had been once blocked or sealed. The Mediterranean Sea was much lower due to solar evaporation and long term drought. The Mediterranean Sea became so low, that the natural earthen dam that separated The Atlantic Ocean was breeched and torrents of water, from The Atlantic Ocean, first leaked and then poured into the Mediterranean Sea, filling a region, that was once highly populated. Supposedly, they found facade steps where the trillion of gallons of Atlantic Ocean water surged down into the Mediterranean Sea Valley, as it balanced sea level. This old world is all now under water with modern coast lines. It was a cool theory.

 

[metis]

Isn't man made climate change predicting a major flooding of the earth due to glacial melt?

An estimated 216 feet.

 

[Colt]

Isn't man made climate change predicting a major flooding of the earth due to glacial melt? Does this mythology have any proof? Or is this a manmade Noah's Ark knockoff? You guys have your work cut out for you, since Noah only had to gather, one animal of each sex ; male and female. You may need to gather one of each gender.

One conceptual consideration, I thought about, for the Noah flood, is to not assume the current world coast lines were around at the time of Noah, when he was building the Ark. What we have today are after the flood, coast lines. The old world is still under water.

This is similar to the modern mythology assumption of the ocean levels rising due to glacier melt, and much of the world coastline, now visible, will be under water. Someone a thousand years in the future may assume Florida was not always under water, like Atlantis, which others will deny is possible.

I remember a theory about the Isthmus of Gibraltar, where the Atlantic Ocean and Mediterranean Sea meet. They theorize this modern open passage, had been once blocked or sealed. The Mediterranean Sea was much lower due to solar evaporation and long term drought. The Mediterranean Sea became so low, that the natural earthen dam that separated The Atlantic Ocean was breeched and torrents of water, from The Atlantic Ocean, first leaked and then poured into the Mediterranean Sea, filling a region, that was once highly populated. Supposedly, they found facade steps where the trillion of gallons of Atlantic Ocean water surged down into the Mediterranean Sea Valley, as it balanced sea level. This old world is all now under water with modern coast lines. It was a cool theory.

The flood myth says that God destroyed everything that wasn't on the boat.

17 I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish.

The function of the vastly expanded flood legend of Genesis was to establish a line of decent all the way back to the Adam of Mesopotamian lore. Since they couldn't do it they decided to drown the whole world" in its own wickedness to fill the huge gap!

 

[Heyo]

Exactly. This is something irrational about creationism. On the one hand it is asserted to be the miraculous work of an all-powerful supernatural being, yet on the other it is expected to leave traces can be studied scientifically, as if the laws of natures applied after all.

That may be because of different people claiming different things and both calling themselves creationists.
But it also may be the typical Christian greed, not being contend with one side of the coin.

 

[Subduction Zone]

However, according to the information I have collected, in fact, the Great flood event was far earlier than the time of Noah, and it was not the ark that was solved in the time of Noah. The legendary story of Noah's Ark comes from the Hebrew Bible editors' application of the Great Flood in Sumerian mythology. Noah himself was the one who solved Jehovah's curse on Adam and the earth for not being able to produce enough, and he was the first human to grow grapes and make wine.


The Great Flood is an important global memory, but whether it was from Noah's time is obviously a big question.


It is important to understand that the biblical accounts prior to Abraham are essentially primitive mythological memories shared by the Semitic peoples, not exclusively by the Jews or the Hebrews, and that even the versions of the biblical accounts are more a product of edited versions that distort part of the Semitic collective memory in favor of their own peoples.

One thing to remember is that many, though not all, cultures have flood myths. Many of them are quite different except for the obvious limitations that most people would have died and that a boat of some sort was involved. There never was one worldwide flood, but all civilizations rely on a reliable source of water. People need water to survive. That is usually found along some sort of navigable waterway. Do you know what happens with almost every navigable waterway? They flood at times. A very large flood would leave a lasting impression. And stories grow with the telling.

So flood myths are not a "global memory" since they do not result from one flood. They result from a common fact that bodies of water do tend to flood at times.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

The point is that you need it to be a miracle.

I don’t “need” it to be anything; the Bible explains it as such.

Miracles don't have to leave traces,

But it did:

1) Animals encased within the Permafrost, some extremely well-preserved….

2) Some mountain chains exhibiting youthful-looking features…

3) According to some estimates over 1,000 Flood legends…

4) Celebrations / Festivals honoring the dead, many of which occur around the same time of year (Oct./Nov.); other festivals correspond with their ancient calendars, matching - or near - their respective “17th day of the 2nd month.” —
1920JRASC..14...19H Page 19. …

Etc.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Isn't man made climate change predicting a major flooding of the earth due to glacial melt? Does this mythology have any proof? Or is this a manmade Noah's Ark knockoff? You guys have your work cut out for you, since Noah only had to gather, one animal of each sex ; male and female. You may need to gather one of each gender.

You mean evidence, don' t you? And yes, endless evidence supports this. The flooding will only be along the oceans. And it will take a long long time.

One conceptual consideration, I thought about, for the Noah flood, is to not assume the current world coast lines were around at the time of Noah, when he was building the Ark. What we have today are after the flood, coast lines. The old world is still under water.

So the whole Earth was never flooded? By the way, why can't you guys find any scientific evidence for your flood?

This is similar to the modern mythology assumption of the ocean levels rising due to glacier melt, and much of the world coastline, now visible, will be under water. Someone a thousand years in the future may assume Florida was not always under water, like Atlantis, which others will deny is possible.

And no, just because you do not understand science does not make it mythology. We definitely need to go over the basics of science.

I remember a theory about the Isthmus of Gibraltar, where the Atlantic Ocean and Mediterranean Sea meet. They theorize this modern open passage, had been once blocked or sealed. The Mediterranean Sea was much lower due to solar evaporation and long term drought. The Mediterranean Sea became so low, that the natural earthen dam that separated The Atlantic Ocean was breeched and torrents of water, from The Atlantic Ocean, first leaked and then poured into the Mediterranean Sea, filling a region, that was once highly populated. Supposedly, they found facade steps where the trillion of gallons of Atlantic Ocean water surged down into the Mediterranean Sea Valley, as it balanced sea level. This old world is all now under water with modern coast lines. It was a cool theory.

Do you have any proper articles that support this claim?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

You can't teach someone whose livelihood depends on not understanding you.

“Livelihood”? Who’s? Not mine.

It would have dire consequences for @Hockeycowboy to accept science.

Stop the sweeping generalizations.
I love facts & science. You should see my fossil collection.

But that doesn't give him the freedom to propagate his version of Earth's history unchallenged.

Nor yours, unchallenged.

The audience has a right to both viewpoints.

Now on that, we can agree.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I don’t “need” it to be anything; the Bible explains it as such.

Since reality tells us otherwise yes, you "need" it.

But it did:

1) Animals encased within the Permafrost, some extremely well-preserved….

So what? Observations are only observations if you do not have a testable hypothesis. What is your hypothesis. What reasonable test could possibly refute it? If you can't answer that last question especially you do not have evidence.

2) Some mountain chains exhibiting youthful-looking features…

Only in geologic time. The Andes are a relatively young range. They are only six to ten million years old. That is still far too old for you, but young for any mountains.

By the way, you do not seem to realize that erosion is part of the mountain building process. Without erosion we would only have very tall and rolling planes. The Himalayas look and are young because the whole range is still being uplifted. Right now the rate of uplift still slightly exceeds the rate of erosion. Guess what happens then? we get steep sharp mountain slopes. The Appalachian mountains are the remnants of a Himalayas sort of range that formed hundreds of millions of years ago.

3) According to some estimates over 1,000 Flood legends…

Yep. Civilizations require water and those sources do tend to flood. That is why there are similarities. A person could not expect to outswim a flood, but one could be on a floating object. Thousands of different flood myths are evidence against the flood.

4) Celebrations / Festivals honoring the dead, many of which occur around the same time of year (Oct./Nov.); other festivals correspond with their ancient calendars, matching - or near - their respective “17th day of the 2nd month.” —
1920JRASC..14...19H Page 19. …

Etc.

So what? Seasons are celebrated all around the world. The weather often depends upon the seasons and that will drive how people react.


You need to form a testable hypothesis if you want to claim to have evidence.

 

[Subduction Zone]

“Livelihood”? Who’s? Not mine.

Really? What would happen to you if your church decided to shun you? No more going to church. No more worshipping with others. All of your church acquaintances gone. How would you do?

Stop the sweeping generalizations.
I love facts & science. You should see my fossil collection.

One cannot love science and deny science and you do that quite often. It would be like claiming to be a Christian and openly insulting Jesus.

Nor yours, unchallenged.

You can try. But so far you have only failed.

Now on that, we can agree.

Then if you want to claim to understand you still need to learn the basics of science. It won't take long to go over them. If you actually know the basics it will take even less time. But your posts tell us that this is not so. What are you afraid of?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

The flood myth says that God destroyed everything that wasn't on the boat.

Yes, global. Now, why? Why did it need to be earth wide?

Genesis 6:1-4 gives you the reason.
(2 Peter 2:4 & Jude 6 provide a little more information, which helps to clarify who the “sons of God” were in Genesis 6:1-4.)

Many cultures, ancient & modern, many of them unrelated (for example, Hindu had no influence over Norse), have myths about “gods having relations with human females, & producing offspring.”

It’s a common thread.

Common threads, in unrelated myths, indicate a basis in truth.

Who do you think is behind the concept of “speaking with the dead”?

It’s no wonder Jehovah God commanded the Israelites to avoid such activity, linking it with astrology & magic.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes, global. Now, why? Why did it need to be earth wide?

Genesis 6:1-4 gives you the reason.
(2 Peter 2:4 & Jude 6 provide a little more information, which helps to clarify who the “sons of God” were in Genesis 6:1-4.)

Many cultures, ancient & modern, many of them unrelated (for example, Hindu had no influence over Norse), have myths about “gods having relations with human females, & producing offspring.”

It’s a common thread.

Common threads, in unrelated myths, indicate a basis in truth.

Who do you think is behind the concept of “speaking with the dead”?

It’s no wonder Jehovah God commanded the Israelites to avoid such activity, linking it with astrology & magic.

But once again, we know that there never was such a flood. You just won't let yourself learn how we know that.

And no, common myths are just the result of common environments. That is all. We do not need magic to explain the obvious.

 

[metis]

1) Animals encased within the Permafrost, some extremely well-preserved….

Yes, as some were frozen shortly after death and were covered over on way or another in the Arctic area, so there's no real surprise for that.

2) Some mountain chains exhibiting youthful-looking features…

Newer mountain chains tend to be that way since less erosion has taken place. We know that the Smokies are older than the Rockies, for example.

3) According to some estimates over 1,000 Flood legends…

About 2/3 of societies do, and they usually have areas whereas periodic flooding occurs or a near such a country.

These facts in no way deny Divine creation, thus the only real difference is how and when God created. If you've been told that faith in God is incompatible with the basic ToE, then they are not telling you the truth.

 

[Colt]

Yes, global. Now, why? Why did it need to be earth wide?

Genesis 6:1-4 gives you the reason.
(2 Peter 2:4 & Jude 6 provide a little more information, which helps to clarify who the “sons of God” were in Genesis 6:1-4.)

Many cultures, ancient & modern, many of them unrelated (for example, Hindu had no influence over Norse), have myths about “gods having relations with human females, & producing offspring.”

It’s a common thread.

Common threads, in unrelated myths, indicate a basis in truth.

Who do you think is behind the concept of “speaking with the dead”?

It’s no wonder Jehovah God commanded the Israelites to avoid such activity, linking it with astrology & magic.

First, the flood myth portrays God as being a bumbling creator, getting frustrated by his own creative work! Then after the so-called flood, nothing changed! The world is just as wicked as it ever was! The story wasn't very well thought out!

 

[Heyo]

Stop the sweeping generalizations.
I love facts & science. You should see my fossil collection.

I see your posts here and they are very far from factual or scientific.

E.g. your favourite source to cite is the Bible - that's religious, not scientific.
Once you start citing respected, peer reviewed journals or at least respected science communicators or simply text books as sources, I start believing you when you say you love science.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

You can't teach someone who's livelihood depends on not understanding you.
It would have dire consequences for @Hockeycowboy to accept science. I don't expect him to. But that doesn't give him the freedom to propagate his version of Earth's history unchallenged. The audience has a right to both viewpoints.

The audience has the right to the best supported, rational explanations that don't require baseless magical claims that just create more questions than they answer.

The religious views on belief and evidence-based conclusions are not equal in explanatory value.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Since reality tells us otherwise yes, you "need" it.

So what? Observations are only observations if you do not have a testable hypothesis. What is your hypothesis. What reasonable test could possibly refute it? If you can't answer that last question especially you do not have evidence.


Only in geologic time. The Andes are a relatively young range. They are only six to ten million years old. That is still far too old for you, but young for any mountains.

By the way, you do not seem to realize that erosion is part of the mountain building process. Without erosion we would only have very tall and rolling planes. The Himalayas look and are young because the whole range is still being uplifted. Right now the rate of uplift still slightly exceeds the rate of erosion. Guess what happens then? we get steep sharp mountain slopes. The Appalachian mountains are the remnants of a Himalayas sort of range that formed hundreds of millions of years ago.


Yep. Civilizations require water and those sources do tend to flood. That is why there are similarities. A person could not expect to outswim a flood, but one could be on a floating object. Thousands of different flood myths are evidence against the flood.

So what? Seasons are celebrated all around the world. The weather often depends upon the seasons and that will drive how people react.


You need to form a testable hypothesis if you want to claim to have evidence.

Based on the evidence, that entire notion of using carcasses present in the permafrost as evidence for a global flood is hogwash. It is refuted from the start by the fact that those carcasses are of different ages spanning thousands of years. It cannot be evidence for a single event claimed to only have lasted one year.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Based on the evidence, that entire notion of using carcasses present in the permafrost as evidence for a global flood is hogwash. It is refuted from the start by the fact that those carcasses are of different ages spanning thousands of years. It cannot be evidence for a single event claimed to only have lasted one year.

I know. And you probably know that I know too. Of course he will just deny the dating methods without any evidence. That is the problem with being any stripe of creationist. The scientific evidence is always against those people and for some reason all of them are too afraid to make their own proper testable hypotheses.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I know. And you probably know that I know too. Of course he will just deny the dating methods without any evidence. That is the problem with being any stripe of creationist. The scientific evidence is always against those people and for some reason all of them are too afraid to make their own proper testable hypotheses.

I know you know. It is just more profitable to respond to someone that isn't repeating claims that didn't float in the first place as if they had stood up to the rising waters of defeat.

I bet in 6 months those poor dead animals that died at different times over thousands of years will be flood evidence again. Probably not even that long.