Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
See my post. You need to answer more questions about your "model".
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Evidence of NOAH's FLOOD
- Thread starter Little Nipper
- Start date
Sure there's ice and snow but the bible only mentions water and a flood, at the least all the versions I've been able to check. And I've never heard anyone claim it was snow and ice before.
Speculation that is perceived to potentially be evidence to support a global flood. It is more rationalization to support personal belief than it is as evidence of a flood in my opinion. Besides, the heat generated by the release of energy that would have to occur with the specified parameters were such an event to actual occur would not result in snow or ice falling in any latitude.
I'm also guessing that if it fell as ice and snow in the Arctic it would show up in ice cores. But my knowledge of ice coring is practically zero.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Unfortunately he does not understand how basic physics refutes the canopy. No creationist even attempts to put reasonable numbers on it because they know that they would fail.
I’m always surprised when Bible- bashers apply natural limits to an event that the Bible specifically describes as divine / supernatural.
Regarding the Flood, it’s as if they think Jehovah was not involved in other aspects of the Event!
According to Genesis…
Who gave the warning, 120 years in advance, that a Flood was coming?
As the account tells us, Jehovah.
Who gave Noah the instructions, including the Ark’s ideal dimension ratios?
— Jehovah.
Who brought the waters down from above, and opened the “vast springs” below?
Again, Jehovah.
Who closed the Ark’s door?
— Jehovah.
Who gave the writer of Genesis the information that the tallest mountain (at that time) was covered by 15 cubits of water?
— Jehovah.
And after the event, Who opened the door?
Once again — Jehovah.
To assume that God did nothing else, is unreasonable.
Are you unreasonable?
Only those w/ closed minds would assume (want to, maybe?) that God’s power stopped there. Is He somehow incapable of protecting the occupants in the Ark, or the plant life underneath the waters? (Is that what Jehovah wanted to do? Let the Ark be destroyed, & Kill the vegetation? No.) Does Jehovah God have to reveal / explain every aspect involved? If He brought the animal to Noah, is it too much of a stretch to believe that Jehovah redistributed them to their former locations after the Flood?
Do we need to be told these things? No….. we see the results:
1) The animals found down within the Flood-created Permafrost, many of them well-preserved (although more and more are rotting as global warming increases).
2) The many Flood legends, some originating from cultures in lands with few rivers (ie., no local floods), depicting worldwide destruction.
3) The Chinese character for "boat" comprises three radically different symbols: 'vessel', 'mouth' (representing a person), and the number ''8”. Why is this significant? Because there were 8 people who survived the Flood in the Ark. Some ancient Semitic person thought the Flood Event was worthy enough, to incorporate it into their language, helping others to remember the Chinese word for boat. They didn't have a Bible to get the idea from, and I doubt Moses knew any Chinese people, to get his writing from!
4) The Bible states, in Psalm 104:8,9 that the Flood was the cause of some of Earth’s mountains reaching such great heights. (With the underground waters spewing upward, the land would, by necessity, settle downward.) This would mean the high mountainous ranges we have today, like the Alps, the Himalayas, the Andes, and others, were, at the very least, not as high before the Flood; they are relatively young in formation. (Not that the rocks are young, but that the features they form, are new, geologically speaking. What do we see? We observe crisp, well-defined features! If these mountains were millions of years old, we would see weathered, rounded features, due to the extreme wind and other erosion forces that they constantly endure. But we don’t! (This evidence is the easiest of all the geological Flood-supporting facts to see...yet to me the most overlooked.)
5) The vanished Grand Canyon debris (1000 cu.mi.), same w/ the Buttes in the Western US, and the Mesa’s…. where’s the rest of the scree? How did it get scattered? It was washed away.
6) Some of the marine creatures discovered on the tops of many mountain ranges, even on Mt. Everest — gigantic clams, some measuring 5 feet or more across, found in the closed position, indicating that these creatures experienced a catastrophic event, leading to their quick death. (Clams in natural death, die w/ their shells open.) Almost all remain exposed to the elements ....if they’re millions of years old, why aren’t they eroded, also? Because these particular ones, died at the Flood!!
7) In describing the Ark, the Bible provides the ratios of its dimensions: a 6-to-1 ratio of length to width, and 10-to-1 ratio of length to height; they are exactly what is needed for a non-powered vessel of that size to maintain stability!
&
Only in the last 3 centuries have ship builders recognized that these proportions are perfect for non-powered barge-like ships to be seaworthy. This is powerful evidence supporting a literal interpretation: How could Moses have known, in recording the event, that Noah was given such ideal dimensions? Fortunate guessing?
8) Then we have Festivals of the Dead, many of them celebrated on or near the time when the Bible says the Flood came….
https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/the-flood-worldwide-festivals-of-the-dead-—-the-connection.250860/
To say the Genesis Flood didn’t happen, is to believe all of these facts are simply coincidences. I’m not that naïve….
Are you?
Regarding the Flood, it’s as if they think Jehovah was not involved in other aspects of the Event!
According to Genesis…
Who gave the warning, 120 years in advance, that a Flood was coming?
As the account tells us, Jehovah.
Who gave Noah the instructions, including the Ark’s ideal dimension ratios?
— Jehovah.
Who brought the waters down from above, and opened the “vast springs” below?
Again, Jehovah.
Who closed the Ark’s door?
— Jehovah.
Who gave the writer of Genesis the information that the tallest mountain (at that time) was covered by 15 cubits of water?
— Jehovah.
And after the event, Who opened the door?
Once again — Jehovah.
To assume that God did nothing else, is unreasonable.
Are you unreasonable?
Only those w/ closed minds would assume (want to, maybe?) that God’s power stopped there. Is He somehow incapable of protecting the occupants in the Ark, or the plant life underneath the waters? (Is that what Jehovah wanted to do? Let the Ark be destroyed, & Kill the vegetation? No.) Does Jehovah God have to reveal / explain every aspect involved? If He brought the animal to Noah, is it too much of a stretch to believe that Jehovah redistributed them to their former locations after the Flood?
Do we need to be told these things? No….. we see the results:
1) The animals found down within the Flood-created Permafrost, many of them well-preserved (although more and more are rotting as global warming increases).
2) The many Flood legends, some originating from cultures in lands with few rivers (ie., no local floods), depicting worldwide destruction.
3) The Chinese character for "boat" comprises three radically different symbols: 'vessel', 'mouth' (representing a person), and the number ''8”. Why is this significant? Because there were 8 people who survived the Flood in the Ark. Some ancient Semitic person thought the Flood Event was worthy enough, to incorporate it into their language, helping others to remember the Chinese word for boat. They didn't have a Bible to get the idea from, and I doubt Moses knew any Chinese people, to get his writing from!
4) The Bible states, in Psalm 104:8,9 that the Flood was the cause of some of Earth’s mountains reaching such great heights. (With the underground waters spewing upward, the land would, by necessity, settle downward.) This would mean the high mountainous ranges we have today, like the Alps, the Himalayas, the Andes, and others, were, at the very least, not as high before the Flood; they are relatively young in formation. (Not that the rocks are young, but that the features they form, are new, geologically speaking. What do we see? We observe crisp, well-defined features! If these mountains were millions of years old, we would see weathered, rounded features, due to the extreme wind and other erosion forces that they constantly endure. But we don’t! (This evidence is the easiest of all the geological Flood-supporting facts to see...yet to me the most overlooked.)
5) The vanished Grand Canyon debris (1000 cu.mi.), same w/ the Buttes in the Western US, and the Mesa’s…. where’s the rest of the scree? How did it get scattered? It was washed away.
6) Some of the marine creatures discovered on the tops of many mountain ranges, even on Mt. Everest — gigantic clams, some measuring 5 feet or more across, found in the closed position, indicating that these creatures experienced a catastrophic event, leading to their quick death. (Clams in natural death, die w/ their shells open.) Almost all remain exposed to the elements ....if they’re millions of years old, why aren’t they eroded, also? Because these particular ones, died at the Flood!!
7) In describing the Ark, the Bible provides the ratios of its dimensions: a 6-to-1 ratio of length to width, and 10-to-1 ratio of length to height; they are exactly what is needed for a non-powered vessel of that size to maintain stability!
&
Safety investigation of Noah’s Ark in a seaway
by S.W. Hong, S.S. Na, B.S. Hyun, S.Y. Hong, D.S. Gong, K.J. Kang, S.H. Suh, K.H. Lee, and Y.G. JeOnly in the last 3 centuries have ship builders recognized that these proportions are perfect for non-powered barge-like ships to be seaworthy. This is powerful evidence supporting a literal interpretation: How could Moses have known, in recording the event, that Noah was given such ideal dimensions? Fortunate guessing?
8) Then we have Festivals of the Dead, many of them celebrated on or near the time when the Bible says the Flood came….
https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/the-flood-worldwide-festivals-of-the-dead-—-the-connection.250860/
To say the Genesis Flood didn’t happen, is to believe all of these facts are simply coincidences. I’m not that naïve….
Are you?
Last edited:
Nope, the volume of earth’s atmosphere is large enough to disperse any supposed heat.
I have no doubt some areas of ice would have existed for eons prior to the event.
Sure.
The bible, however, clearly says that the flood was only 15 cubits high, and does not say that Mt Everest was covered by 15 cubits of water after the ocean level rose at the rate of 9 metres per hour for 40 days.
Genesis 7:20 KJV -
Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail;
and the mountains were covered.
I’m always surprised when Bible- bashers apply natural limits to an event that the Bible describes as divine / supernatural.
Regarding the Flood, it’s as if they think Jehovah was not involved in other aspects of the Event!
According to Genesis…
Who gave the warning, 120 years in advance, that a Flood was coming?
As the account tells us, Jehovah.
Who gave Noah the instructions, including the Ark’s ideal dimension ratios?
— Jehovah.
Who brought the waters down from above, and opened the “vast springs” below?
Again, Jehovah.
Who closed the door?
— Jehovah.
Who gave the writer of Genesis the information that the tallest mountain (at that time) was covered by 15 cubits of water?
— Jehovah.
And after the event, Who opened the door?
Once again — Jehovah.
To assume that God did nothing else, is unreasonable.
Are you unreasonable?
Only those w/ closed minds would assume (want to, maybe?) that God’s power stopped there. Is He somehow incapable of protecting the occupants in the Ark, or the plant life underneath the waters? (Is that what Jehovah wanted to do? Let the Ark be destroyed, & Kill the vegetation? No.) Does Jehovah God have to reveal / explain every aspect involved? If He brought the animal to Noah, is it too much of a stretch to believe that Jehovah redistributed them to their former locations after the Flood?
Do we need to be told these things? No….. we see the results:
1) The animals found down within the Flood-created Permafrost, many of them well-preserved (although more and more are rotting as global warming increases).
2) The many Flood legends, some originating from cultures in lands with few rivers (ie., no local floods), depicting worldwide destruction.
3) The Chinese character for "boat" comprises three radically different symbols: 'vessel', 'mouth' (representing a person), and the number ''8”. Why is this significant? Because there were 8 people who survived the Flood in the Ark. Some ancient Semitic person thought the Flood Event was worthy enough, to incorporate it into their language, helping others to remember the Chinese word for boat. They didn't have a Bible to get the idea from, and I doubt Moses knew any Chinese people, to get his writing from!
4) The Bible states, in Psalm 104:8,9 that the Flood was the cause of some of Earth’s mountains reaching such great heights. (With the underground waters spewing upward, the land would, by necessity, settle downward.) This would mean the high mountainous ranges we have today, like the Alps, the Himalayas, the Andes, and others, were, at the very least, not as high before the Flood; they are relatively young in formation. (Not that the rocks are young, but that the features they form, are new, geologically speaking. What do we see? We observe crisp, well-defined features! If these mountains were millions of years old, we would see weathered, rounded features, due to the extreme wind and other erosion forces that they constantly endure. But we don’t! (This evidence is the easiest of all the geological facts to see...yet to me the most overlooked.)
5) The vanished Grand Canyon debris (1000 cu.mi.), same w/ the Buttes in the Western US, and the Mesa’s…. where’s the rest of the scree? How did it get scattered? It washed away.
6) Some of the marine creatures discovered on the tops of many mountain ranges, even on Mt. Everest — gigantic clams, some measuring 5 feet or more across, found in the closed position, indicating that these creatures experienced a catastrophic event, leading to their quick death. (Clams in natural death, die w/ their shells open.) All remain exposed....if they’re millions of years old, why aren’t they eroded, also? Because these particular ones died at the Flood!!
7) In describing the Ark, the Bible provides the ratios of its dimensions: a 6-to-1 ratio of length to width, and 10-to-1 ratio of length to height, are exactly what is needed for a non-powered vessel of that size to maintain stability!
&
Safety investigation of Noah’s Ark in a seaway
by S.W. Hong, S.S. Na, B.S. Hyun, S.Y. Hong, D.S. Gong, K.J. Kang, S.H. Suh, K.H. Lee, and Y.G. Je
Only in the last 2 centuries have ship builders recognized that these proportions are perfect for non-powered barge-like ships to be seaworthy. This is powerful evidence supporting a literal interpretation: How could Moses have known, in recording the event, that Noah was given such ideal dimensions? Fortunate guessing?
8) Then we have Festivals of the Dead, many of them celebrated on or near the time when the Bible says the Flood came….
https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/the-flood-worldwide-festivals-of-the-dead-—-the-connection.250860/
To say the Genesis Flood didn’t happen, is to believe all of these facts are simply coincidences. I’m not that naïve….
Interesting cultural difference. A bible basher here is someone who comes to your house to try and peddle their religion.
And I for one don't think everything was recorded in the bible but when an extraordinary claim of snow and sheets of ice falling to the incredible volume required for the flood levels described in the bible then I'm going to need some kind of evidence to back it up. If you feel that's an unreasonable request then I guess that's it.
No argument from me about that but I fail to see how that helps your claim that well preserved megafauna in the permafrost is evidence of the flood.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Your article has been refuted several times. Why do you keep bringing up that piece of trash?I’m always surprised when Bible- bashers apply natural limits to an event that the Bible describes as divine / supernatural.
Regarding the Flood, it’s as if they think Jehovah was not involved in other aspects of the Event!
According to Genesis…
Who gave the warning, 120 years in advance, that a Flood was coming?
As the account tells us, Jehovah.
Who gave Noah the instructions, including the Ark’s ideal dimension ratios?
— Jehovah.
Who brought the waters down from above, and opened the “vast springs” below?
Again, Jehovah.
Who closed the door?
— Jehovah.
Who gave the writer of Genesis the information that the tallest mountain (at that time) was covered by 15 cubits of water?
— Jehovah.
And after the event, Who opened the door?
Once again — Jehovah.
To assume that God did nothing else, is unreasonable.
Are you unreasonable?
Only those w/ closed minds would assume (want to, maybe?) that God’s power stopped there. Is He somehow incapable of protecting the occupants in the Ark, or the plant life underneath the waters? (Is that what Jehovah wanted to do? Let the Ark be destroyed, & Kill the vegetation? No.) Does Jehovah God have to reveal / explain every aspect involved? If He brought the animal to Noah, is it too much of a stretch to believe that Jehovah redistributed them to their former locations after the Flood?
Do we need to be told these things? No….. we see the results:
1) The animals found down within the Flood-created Permafrost, many of them well-preserved (although more and more are rotting as global warming increases).
2) The many Flood legends, some originating from cultures in lands with few rivers (ie., no local floods), depicting worldwide destruction.
3) The Chinese character for "boat" comprises three radically different symbols: 'vessel', 'mouth' (representing a person), and the number ''8”. Why is this significant? Because there were 8 people who survived the Flood in the Ark. Some ancient Semitic person thought the Flood Event was worthy enough, to incorporate it into their language, helping others to remember the Chinese word for boat. They didn't have a Bible to get the idea from, and I doubt Moses knew any Chinese people, to get his writing from!
4) The Bible states, in Psalm 104:8,9 that the Flood was the cause of some of Earth’s mountains reaching such great heights. (With the underground waters spewing upward, the land would, by necessity, settle downward.) This would mean the high mountainous ranges we have today, like the Alps, the Himalayas, the Andes, and others, were, at the very least, not as high before the Flood; they are relatively young in formation. (Not that the rocks are young, but that the features they form, are new, geologically speaking. What do we see? We observe crisp, well-defined features! If these mountains were millions of years old, we would see weathered, rounded features, due to the extreme wind and other erosion forces that they constantly endure. But we don’t! (This evidence is the easiest of all the geological facts to see...yet to me the most overlooked.)
5) The vanished Grand Canyon debris (1000 cu.mi.), same w/ the Buttes in the Western US, and the Mesa’s…. where’s the rest of the scree? How did it get scattered? It washed away.
6) Some of the marine creatures discovered on the tops of many mountain ranges, even on Mt. Everest — gigantic clams, some measuring 5 feet or more across, found in the closed position, indicating that these creatures experienced a catastrophic event, leading to their quick death. (Clams in natural death, die w/ their shells open.) All remain exposed....if they’re millions of years old, why aren’t they eroded, also? Because these particular ones died at the Flood!!
7) In describing the Ark, the Bible provides the ratios of its dimensions: a 6-to-1 ratio of length to width, and 10-to-1 ratio of length to height, are exactly what is needed for a non-powered vessel of that size to maintain stability!
&
Safety investigation of Noah’s Ark in a seaway
by S.W. Hong, S.S. Na, B.S. Hyun, S.Y. Hong, D.S. Gong, K.J. Kang, S.H. Suh, K.H. Lee, and Y.G. Je
Only in the last 2 centuries have ship builders recognized that these proportions are perfect for non-powered barge-like ships to be seaworthy. This is powerful evidence supporting a literal interpretation: How could Moses have known, in recording the event, that Noah was given such ideal dimensions? Fortunate guessing?
8) Then we have Festivals of the Dead, many of them celebrated on or near the time when the Bible says the Flood came….
https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/the-flood-worldwide-festivals-of-the-dead-—-the-connection.250860/
To say the Genesis Flood didn’t happen, is to believe all of these facts are simply coincidences. I’m not that naïve….
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
How would you know? Air has a very low specific heat. That works against you.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
That works against him. The ice caps have been in place for over a hundred thousand years. And the last time I checked, ice floats.
SavedByTheLord
Well-Known Member
Water from the worldwide flood would have been ice and snow at the icecaps.
Ice floats is just another finely tuned thing from God showing His incredible design.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Let me explain for you. The ice caps.are very old. Hundreds of thousands of years.. They would have floated and been destroyed by te over five miles of water from the mythological flood.
If you believe the world wide flood is a historic event, care to answer the question I asked on post #912? Everybody seemed to ignore it; here it is again to save you the trouble of looking it up
If water covered the entire earth,
*was it salt water? Or fresh water. If salt water, how did the fresh water life survive, and how did fresh and salt water separate themselves after the flood reminded?
*If all the animals that survived the flood were on the boat, what did they eat? According to the bible they were on the boat for at least 100 days; during which time food for the animals would have spoiled due to no refrigeration.
*According to the bible, the Ark landed somewhere in Middle East Asia. So how did all of those Kangaroos and Kola Bears get to Australia without leaving a trail?
*Any Engineer will tell you it is impossible to build a boat 500 feet long (the recorded length of the Ark) made strictly out of wood without any steel reinforcements. Since steel wasn’t invented back then, how did they do what is impossible to be done today?
*It is estimated that it would take 5 times the amount of water currently on Earth to cover every mountain. Sooooo; where did all of that water go?
On post #912 I asked a question; everybody seemed to ignore. Perhaps you can provide a response. Here it is again;
If water covered the entire earth,
*was it salt water? Or fresh water. If salt water, how did the fresh water life survive, and how did fresh and salt water separate themselves after the flood reminded?
*If all the animals that survived the flood were on the boat, what did they eat? According to the bible they were on the boat for at least 100 days; during which time food for the animals would have spoiled due to no refrigeration.
*According to the bible, the Ark landed somewhere in Middle East Asia. So how did all of those Kangaroos and Kola Bears get to Australia without leaving a trail?
*Any Engineer will tell you it is impossible to build a boat 500 feet long (the recorded length of the Ark) made strictly out of wood without any steel reinforcements. Since steel wasn’t invented back then, how did they do what is impossible to be done today?
*It is estimated that it would take 5 times the amount of water currently on Earth to cover every mountain. Sooooo; where did all of that water go?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
FYI, I do not think that @John53 believes in the mythical flood.