Evidence of NOAH's FLOOD

[SavedByTheLord]

No, they died out 150 million years ago. Please quit calling your God a liar.

Prove it.

Not according to all the depictions of dinos.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No it doesn’t…. The account says that the tallest mountain was covered by 15 cubits of water.

Psalm 104:8,9 says the Flood caused the uplift of ranges, which would thereby create the valleys between them — ‘The mountains rose & the valleys fell.’

Which means that Earth’s topography was smoother prior to the Flood, much smoother than it is today.

If you were to level all the Earth - make it like a cue ball - there’s currently enough water (on Earth’s surface) to cover the planet 2.5 miles deep!

To say the tallest mountain, existing at the time of the Flood, was covered by “15 cubits” of water, is to say that “tallest mountain” was at least a mile and a half high, with room to spare.

Best wishes.

Right, so roughly 5 miles of water that did not leave a mark. Don't you think that it would have been easier to kill every one that was bad with God magic? Why did God have to use Hillbilly God magic?

I know how we will get rid of these Gol dern gophers! We will flood them out!!

Why do you believe that God is so evil and wasteful?

 

[SavedByTheLord]

Right, so roughly 5 miles of water that did not leave a mark. Don't you think that it would have been easier to kill every one that was bad with God magic? Why did God have to use Hillbilly God magic?

I know how we will get rid of these Gol dern gophers! We will flood them out!!

Why do you believe that God is so evil and wasteful?

It did. It remodeled the entire surface of the Earth.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It did. It remodeled the entire surface of the Earth.

No, it didn't. We already went over your failure. For example, you cannot explain how the flood created this landscape without being hilariously wrong, I can explain to you how it had to take millions of years:

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Here's one: Permafrost - Wikipedia

Another: Frozen in time: 10 prehistoric animals found trapped in ice

How else could it be explained?

Metis,

Did you read these?
I’ve been over the Wikipedia article several times.
It doesn’t explain how the Permafrost formed….mostly it’s content, the effect of global warming, etc.

The second article is interesting. So thanks, I never read that one.
But it offers nothing to discredit the Flood. You could say the dating, but it simply isn’t accurate…..

I’ve explained several times that the water canopy, existing over the earth at that time, from which much of the water came, would have diluted / diffused much of the Sun’s radiation hitting earth’s surface.

And we still have the enigmas of the Permafrost’s origin, and the animals found within it.

(In that second article, did you see the timeframe of the penguin colony’s existence? The article said “between 800 and 5,000 years ago”; not very exact, is it?)


So long.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Metis,

Did you read these?
I’ve been over the Wikipedia article several times.
It doesn’t explain how the Permafrost formed….mostly it’s content, the effect of global warming, etc.

The second article is interesting. So thanks, I never read that one.
But it offers nothing to discredit the Flood. You could say the dating, but it simply isn’t accurate…..

I’ve explained several times that the water canopy, existing over the earth at that time, from which much of the water came, would have diluted / diffused much of the Sun’s radiation hitting earth’s surface.

And we still have the enigmas of the Permafrost’s origin, and the animals found within it.

(In that second article, did you see the timeframe of the penguin colony’s existence? The article said “between 800 and 5,000 years ago”; not very exact, is it?)


So long.

Why do you think that the formation of the permafrost is a mystery? It is very straight forward. The closer that you get to the poles, the colder it gets. As one gets close enough the temperatures become so low that near surface soils freeze and do not melt during the summer. If it is frozen for two or more years it is called 'permafrost":

Permafrost: Everything You Need to Know

The “permanently” frozen earth at our planet’s poles and in other cold climes is thawing, with big consequences to our climate, ecosystems, and health.

www.nrdc.org

We are still in an ice age and have been in one for the last 2.5 million years. The defining factor of an ice age are icecaps at the poles or nearby, as in Greenland. You might want to ask what started the ice age. That gets a bit trickier. A lot of factors control that and it is argued about which forces are more important. We are not going to solve that today, but the formation of the permafrost is very simple.

 

[Sargonski]

It did. It remodeled the entire surface of the Earth.

You made that up on the spot .. and it is complet nonsense .. as you should be able to dig anywhere and find sea shells relatively close to the surface .. 4100 years ago is not that far back.

Nor was all population wiped out .. as we have continuous culture throughout the time period the flood is said to have occured .. have these cultures in many places all over the planet .. The flood simply didn't happen when the Bible says it does .. which is ~ 300 years prior to Abraham.

 

[Little Dragon]

I'm asking you.

How do I know animal species (and all other living things), evolve into new species?
How do I know those early sea dwelling worm like creatures eventually evolved into land vertebrates (including us humans)?
Gradually. Very gradually. The thing is, I didn't understand immediately, it took me a while to fully appreciate what evolution via natural selection involves. A lot of reading. Since you're asking me. I can tell you this. As an explanation for all life on Earth, it makes the most sense, as far as I know there is only one other competing hypothesis, for which there is no testable evidence. The Creation hypothesis. That, does not make much sense to me, in fact, invoking God as the maker of all living things, only creates more questions, for which there are only more un-testable answers.

I don't see however, why the theory of evolution via natural selection, disproves a creator God. After all, it could just be the method by which creators of universes, also create life. Maybe a God can set the wheels in motion for life, before any stars or planets, condense out of the nebulae they are born from. Not saying I believe that, just my 2 cents.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You made that up on the spot .. and it is complet nonsense .. as you should be able to dig anywhere and find sea shells relatively close to the surface .. 4100 years ago is not that far back.

Nor was all population wiped out .. as we have continuous culture throughout the time period the flood is said to have occured .. have these cultures in many places all over the planet .. The flood simply didn't happen when the Bible says it does .. which is ~ 300 years prior to Abraham.

The problem is that by definition there is no scientific evidence for the Flood of Noah because creationists refuse to make a proper testable hypothesis. They claim to believe, but their actions speak louder than words. When scientists make a new discovery one of the first things that they try to do is to disprove it. That may seem to be odd, but it isn't when you realize that once you publish as a scientist that the whole world will be trying to refute your claims. So you better be very very sure before you publish. One also had to have a testable hypothesis. A hypothesis will make predictions and the concept needs to be tested on those predictions.

In other words a scientist has to be willing to say Here is my hypothesis A, if we test it and observe B I am wrong.

 

[Little Dragon]

as far as I know there is only one other competing hypothesis, for which there is no testable evidence

Just occurred to me that Lamarckism was a thing, and some ppl are attracted to the Panspermia hypothesis.

 

[YoursTrue]

How do I know animal species (and all other living things), evolve into new species?
How do I know those early sea dwelling worm like creatures eventually evolved into land vertebrates (including us humans)?
Gradually. Very gradually. The thing is, I didn't understand immediately, it took me a while to fully appreciate what evolution via natural selection involves. A lot of reading. Since you're asking me. I can tell you this. As an explanation for all life on Earth, it makes the most sense, as far as I know there is only one other competing hypothesis, for which there is no testable evidence. The Creation hypothesis. That, does not make much sense to me, in fact, invoking God as the maker of all living things, only creates more questions, for which there are only more un-testable answers.

I don't see however, why the theory of evolution via natural selection, disproves a creator God. After all, it could just be the method by which creators of universes, also create life. Maybe a God can set the wheels in motion for life, before any stars or planets, condense out of the nebulae they are born from. Not saying I believe that, just my 2 cents.

Yes, I understand. But! the theory doesn't hold water in the sense of differences between, let's say, horses and humans. Or humans and lions. I'm obviously not an expert, so I'll leave it there for now. Not everyone understands the creation account, even among those who vigorously profess to believe it. So I won't go into detail now because of certain factors, not to argue over it, but just to say that the Darwinian model does not add up in its entirety imo. Perhaps I'll detail this another time.

 

[Monty]

Prove it.

Not according to all the depictions of dinos.

Do you have any videos of your brachiosaurus eating cedars or moving their tails like a cedar?

 

[Sargonski]

The problem is that by definition there is no scientific evidence for the Flood of Noah because creationists refuse to make a proper testable hypothesis. They claim to believe, but their actions speak louder than words. When scientists make a new discovery one of the first things that they try to do is to disprove it. That may seem to be odd, but it isn't when you realize that once you publish as a scientist that the whole world will be trying to refute your claims. So you better be very very sure before you publish. One also had to have a testable hypothesis. A hypothesis will make predictions and the concept needs to be tested on those predictions.

In other words a scientist has to be willing to say Here is my hypothesis A, if we test it and observe B I am wrong.

Yes .. without witch one is just making up a story - making a hypothesis -- hoping it might be true .. what else though .. is inability to refute .. refutations of said hypothesis. One thing to say "this might be true" .. another to address a refutation.. Such as "continuous civilization" .

If you go with the Bible Timeline .. the Flood happened ~ 300 years prior to Abe .. Noah is supposedly still alive while Abe is living .. Abe is dated around 17-1800 BC .. one of the Kings mentioned is thought to be Hammurabi but .. its around this time say 2000-1700 BC .. which dates the flood 2000-2300 BC.

Which is a big probem .. as we have continuous civilization from 2300 BC .. Sargon for example united the city states of Sumeria into the worlds first empire around 2300 BC .. and yes this is where my nick comes from ..his grandson Naram Sin .. -- the SIN denoting deified while alive.. all the art .. culture .. writing of the sumerians branching off into Assyrians - Babylonians around 2000 .. and so on...

Nowhere is there a break where everyone is destroyed .. same pottery .. changing slightly with time .. language culture .. and so on.

If there was some massive flood .. leaving Noah and kin the only to survive . and hundreds of years later this place gets re-populated .. and well .. every city repopulated .. they are not going to have the same language .. culture .. Gods .. artwork .. pottery .. there will be a break .. and somethign completely different would arise. And this would be the case in every contiuous civilization .. and city State... from Ur .. to AKKad .. to Thebes .. Australia -- China -- South America .. every one .. would have to have this gap .. somewhere in this time period .. but would have to occure over all these continuous civilizations ..yet we find it in none .. just like in someone's backyard in nebraska .. you should be able to dig anywhere and find Sea shells .. rather close to the surface .. don't have to go that deep to get 4000 years ago

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes .. without witch one is just making up a story - making a hypothesis -- hoping it might be true .. what else though .. is inability to refute .. refutations of said hypothesis. One thing to say "this might be true" .. another to address a refutation.. Such as "continuous civilization" .

If you go with the Bible Timeline .. the Flood happened ~ 300 years prior to Abe .. Noah is supposedly still alive while Abe is living .. Abe is dated around 17-1800 BC .. one of the Kings mentioned is thought to be Hammurabi but .. its around this time say 2000-1700 BC .. which dates the flood 2000-2300 BC.

Which is a big probem .. as we have continuous civilization from 2300 BC .. Sargon for example united the city states of Sumeria into the worlds first empire around 2300 BC .. and yes this is where my nick comes from ..his grandson Naram Sin .. -- the SIN denoting deified while alive.. all the art .. culture .. writing of the sumerians branching off into Assyrians - Babylonians around 2000 .. and so on...

Nowhere is there a break where everyone is destroyed .. same pottery .. changing slightly with time .. language culture .. and so on.

If there was some massive flood .. leaving Noah and kin the only to survive . and hundreds of years later this place gets re-populated .. and well .. every city repopulated .. they are not going to have the same language .. culture .. Gods .. artwork .. pottery .. there will be a break .. and somethign completely different would arise. And this would be the case in every contiuous civilization .. and city State... from Ur .. to AKKad .. to Thebes .. Australia -- China -- South America .. every one .. would have to have this gap .. somewhere in this time period .. but would have to occure over all these continuous civilizations ..yet we find it in none .. just like in someone's backyard in nebraska .. you should be able to dig anywhere and find Sea shells .. rather close to the surface .. don't have to go that deep to get 4000 years ago

The Flood of the Bible is refuted by almost every field of study. And worse yet it portrays God as an evil being that decides to solve his problems but killing adults and child, guilty and innocent, and almost all animal and plant life on the face of the Earth not to mention the seas and lakes. And yet that miraculous flood left no evidence of its passing.

I cannot see why believers would not embrace the fact that it never happened. They do not have to make excuses for their God's evil acts since they never happened either.

 

[YoursTrue]

No, it didn't. We already went over your failure. For example, you cannot explain how the flood created this landscape without being hilariously wrong, I can explain to you how it had to take millions of years:

View attachment 83460

What makes you think indentations and crevices were not there in part before the flood?

 

[Subduction Zone]

What makes you think indentations and crevices were not there in part before the flood?

Those are not "indentations and crevices". That is a very specific landform.

If you remember to have evidence for an idea you first must have a hypothesis that explains what we see in detail. That hypothesis also has to be testable. How could one test it to see if it is true or not.?

What you see in the photograph are embedded or incised meanders. Do you know what a meander is?

 

[Monty]

You made that up on the spot .. and it is complet nonsense .. as you should be able to dig anywhere and find sea shells relatively close to the surface .. 4100 years ago is not that far back.

Nor was all population wiped out .. as we have continuous culture throughout the time period the flood is said to have occured .. have these cultures in many places all over the planet .. The flood simply didn't happen when the Bible says it does .. which is ~ 300 years prior to Abraham.

And the bible says that Noah's brothers (Jabal and Jubal) didn't drown with the rest of Noah's family anyway, since they are the fathers of all tent dwellers and musical instrument makers (Gen 4:20-21) and were living outside the flooded area with their families.

 

[Subduction Zone]

And the bible says that Noah's brothers (Jabal and Jubal) didn't drown with the rest of Noah's family anyway, since they are the fathers of all tent dwellers and musical instrument makers (Gen 4:20-21) and were living outside the flooded area with their families.

Do you expect the Bible to be consistent?

 

[blü 2]

thanks for well nothing.

Nothing? I've answered your questions, I've pointed you to those bible quotes setting out biblical cosmology as the cosmology of Babylon, I've given you links to teach yourself about radiometric dating of rocks &c, and counseled you to learn about evolution so next time (unlike all the other times) you'll have some slight clue what you're talking about when you attack it.

Whereas you avoid my questions, pretend I haven't answered your questions, and generally evade any enquiry into your own position.

Sheesh.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Nothing? I've answered your questions, I've pointed you to those bible quotes setting out biblical cosmology as the cosmology of Babylon, I've given you links to teach yourself about radiometric dating of rocks &c, and counseled you to learn about evolution so next time (unlike all the other times) you'll have some slight clue what you're talking about when you attack it.

Whereas you avoid my questions, pretend I haven't answered your questions, and generally evade any enquiry into your own position.

Sheesh.

I see that you understand him very well.