Evidence of NOAH's FLOOD

[shunyadragon]

Exactly...finally an agreement

Noah's flood best explains this. It wiped out nearly all life except for those in the ark.

The bible doesnt call Noah's flood a natural event...it was a catastrophic global destruction by the hand of God.

The claim it could not cause rapid subduction amd lift mountains and separate continents...thats rubbish. We have plenty of examples where this has happened with earthquakes. For years it has been claimed that an earthquake along the coast of Califorrnia would wipe out huge areas of habitable landmass...so are those secular scientific predictions from geologic stuties of that area wrong?

You are not citing scientific references on earthquakes properly. "It has never been claimed" anything of the sort. No, even the largest known earthquakes cannot 'wipe out' an entire region except maybe in a Hollywood movie Hollywood would no longer exist.

 

[YoursTrue]

After a year of nothing to implant into?

The earth's surface was different then. But it is possible a branch floating could have easily implanted itself and began growing as the waters receded. I'm not an expert but have read observations that an olive branch can grow pretty well after implantation. And the dove carried a leaf.

 

[shunyadragon]

It doesn’t say how high the mountains were

It referred to Mount Ariat, which is high enough. The text refers to 'ALL the mountains' and the whole world. and all life perished except what was on the Ark..

 

[McBell]

The earth's surface was different then. But it is possible a branch floating could have easily implanted itself and began growing as the waters receded. I'm not an expert but have read observations that an olive branch can grow pretty well after implantation. And the dove carried a leaf.

I have numerous accounts of an olive tree branch taking well to implanting.
But not a single one of them was after a year floating in the water.

And what does the earths surface shape have to do with an olive branch floating for year before there was something to implant into?
Are you implying the Bible got it wrong?

 

[YoursTrue]

Interesting how your own source mentions nothing about being underwater for a year...
In fact, you left out:

Equipped to handle drought, sub-zero temperatures, frost and even fire, olive trees are extraordinarily resilient. Their roots are so strong that they can re-grow even when it seems like they’ve been totally decimated.​

​

Howevr, this site does explain how merely overwatering an olive tree, whether in a pot or the ground, will definately kill the plant:

What happens if you overwater an olive tree? - Olive Grove Oundle

What happens if you overwater an olive tree? Olive trees are susceptible to overwatering. For olive tree care tips and advice, visit Olive Grove Oundle today.

www.olivegroveoundle.co.uk

True, sources can have different explanations. One of the more cogent explanations for me is that there were branches floating through the muck on the surface of the waters and could have been implanted towards the top of a hill where waters were receded.

 

[YoursTrue]

I have numerous accounts of an olive tree branch taking well to implanting.
But not a single one of them was after a year floating in the water.

And what does the earths surface shape have to do with an olive branch floating for year before there was something to implant into?
Are you implying the Bible got it wrong?

Not speaking of shape but quality of soil.

 

[shunyadragon]

The earth's surface was different then.

No the earth's surface has been relatively the same as it is now for millions of years. The continents have moved a little and the sea elevation has changed up and down some in response to Ice Ages, but no significant change that would make it easier to flood.

But it is possible a branch floating could have easily implanted itself and began growing as the waters receded. I'm not an expert but have read observations that an olive branch can grow pretty well after implantation. And the dove carried a leaf.

Good thing you clarified your expertise here because this explanation is a bit ridiculous.

 

[McBell]

I heard tell?!?!?! Pinocchio's nose is getting longer.

You should probably take a few deep breaths and pay better attention to what is being posted.

I mean, given the fact that you completely overlooked my post where I flat out quoted your post and then asked a very simple question that you have not addressed.

 

[Monty]

None of the Biblical translations describe a river flood. Actually, the Gilgamesh version does not either. The reason why it is considered a flood of the Tigris Euphrates Valley is because geologically the catastrophic event can be dated to reflect the first written narrative.

ALL the translations describe a world flood and three different Rabbis agree,

That still doesn't change the fact that the KJV & OJB & YLT say that the flood was only 15 cubits high, and why Noah's pet bird could pluck a fresh leaf from an olive tree growing outside the flooded area.

 

[YoursTrue]

You should probably take a few deep breaths and pay better attention to what is being posted.

I mean, given the fact that you completely overlooked my post where I flat out quoted your post and then asked a very simple question that you have not addressed.

Ok I'll try to take a deep breath. You asked, if I recall, if I'm saying the Bible has it wrong.

 

[McBell]

Not speaking of shape but quality of soil.

What does the quality of soil 15 cubics below the floating branch have to do with it?

 

[Monty]

None of the Biblical translations describe a river flood. Actually, the Gilgamesh version does not either. The reason why it is considered a flood of the Tigris Euphrates Valley is because geologically the catastrophic event can be dated to reflect the first written narrative.

ALL the translations describe a world flood and three different Rabbis agree,

That still doesn't change the fact that the KJV & OJB & YLT say that the flood was only 15 cubits high and drained away like any river flood, and why Noah's pet bird could pluck a fresh leaf from an olive tree growing outside the flooded area.

 

[McBell]

Ok I'll try to take a deep breath.

I appreciate that, but that post was directed to the person it was in reply to, not you.

You asked, if I recall, if I'm saying the Bible has it wrong.

Pretty much.
The Bible says that the whole world was covered with 15 cubics of water for a year, right?
Which would mean that the water did not even start receding until after that year had passed, right?
what difference does it make the soil quality or surface shape during that year the whole planet was under 15 cubics of water?

 

[YoursTrue]

What does the quality of soil 15 cubics below the floating branch have to do with it?

I wasn't there. I'm taking a slightly deeper breath and would like to say again that I wasn't there, it may be that a branch could have been floating over rubble on the water and as the waters receded, planted itself in the good soil. With that said, right or wrong as far as my thought goes, but it seems reasonable to me now, but as I said, I wasn't there, I believe the Bible's account, and I am going to say good night.

 

[YoursTrue]

I appreciate that, but that post was directed to the person it was in reply to, not you.


Pretty much.
The Bible says that the whole world was covered with 15 cubics of water for a year, right?
Which would mean that the water did not even start receding until after that year had passed, right?
what difference does it make the soil quality or surface shape during that year the whole planet was under 15 cubics of water?

Oh yes I said good night but one more thing. There is a discussion going on here about 15 vs what? 17or 19 cubits, and plus there's a lot to think about but i believe the account about Noah is a warning sign for us today. Now good night for tonight.

 

[Monty]

According to one website, olive trees are able to survive many circumstances. Their roots are so strong that even if the tree itself has been destroyed, if the roots are intact the olive can cling to life and rise above the soil once again. What Is So Special About An Olive Tree? - Olive Grove Oundle.

As a retired plant physiologist and orchardist I can assure you that an olive tree cannot survive being submerged for over six months.
The olive tree described in Gen 8 was obviously growing outside the flooded area and not on Noah's boat, since the bible says the flood was only 15 cubits high.

 

[McBell]

Oh yes I said good night but one more thing. There is a discussion going on here about 15 vs what? 17or 19 cubits, and plus there's a lot to think about but i believe the account about Noah is a warning sign for us today. Now good night for tonight.

I used 15 cubics because every translation I have seen says 15 cubics.

 

[Monty]

Incomplete dishonest citation and misrepresentation of the text you cite. ALL the translations clearly state that ALL people and life died in a world flood.

No, I gave the Jewish Orthodox text and a reference as to what Jews believe and you decided to ignore the reference. ALL the translations say the same thing the mountains were covered by 15 cubits, The Rabbis agree, and based on this the Rabbis agree no such flood ever occurred. You are the one who asked to refer to the Rabbis. I referred to two Rabbis that are part of a respected website.

You have a very aggressive agenda not based on the plain reading of the text and have not cited any Jewish sources. There are likely more and I might cite others.

Here is another Hebrew source that describes it as a 'world flood,' but describes it more in terms of a moral lesson for human relationships.

Lessons Of The Flood | My Jewish Learning

Noah Lessons. Noah Commentary. Noah Text Study. Weekly Torah Commentary. Parshat Hashavua. Jewish Texts

www.myjewishlearning.com

Lessons Of The Flood​

The story of the flood provides us with numerous insights into human nature and human relationships.

BY RABBI EPHRAIM Z. BUCHWALD

Noah’s Flood​

BIBLE

Parashat Noach: Summary​

BIBLE

My Jewish Learning is a not-for-profit and relies on your help
DONATE
Commentary on Parashat Noach, Genesis 6:9 - 11:32
Secular scholars speak of the story of the flood as if it were a myth, or a fairy tale. Not surprisingly, several ancient documents report striking parallels to the story of the flood.
Perhaps, the most famous document is the Babylonian “Epic of Gilgamesh,” which tells the story of a man by the name of Utnapishtim. The gods decide to destroy the earth, there is a great flood, and because Utnapishtim is the favorite of one of the gods, Eau, he is saved.

Gilgamesh and Noah​

Despite the parallels between the “Epic of Gilgamesh” and the Torah ’s story of Noah, they are strikingly different. In the Babylonian story, the gods arbitrarily decide to destroy the earth as if it were a plaything. Furthermore, the gods choose to save Utnapishtim only because he is a “favorite” of theirs, not because he is worthy of being saved.
In Parshat Noah, however, there is a moral imperative. The world is flooded not because God arbitrarily decides to destroy the world, but because it had become corrupt and destructive. Noah is not arbitrarily saved. He is deserving. He is a “righteous man, perfect in his generation. With God, Noah walked” (Genesis 6:9).

The story, however, doesn't say that it was a global flood, but only that it covered the land within the horizon ring to which is attached the dome shaped heavens and given that the flood was only 15 cubits high and had no effect on an olive tree.

 

[Monty]

I used 15 cubics because every translation I have seen says 15 cubics.

So what is a cubic, or are you referring to cubic metres or cubic cubits?
And have you seen any translations?

 

[YoursTrue]

I used 15 cubics because every translation I have seen says 15 cubics.

Ok yeah I said good night but here I am again. Really not arguing about 15 or 17 cubits although a point to consider but not now. I do not think now that an olive tree can survive being submerged in water but I don't know for how long and I consider it was a branch that got planted as the waters subsided. Thank you for the discussion.