Evidence of NOAH's FLOOD

[Hockeycowboy]

You asked for it.

And you still didn’t tell me where you stood.

In your estimation, what exactly are ‘God’s works’? Did the earth form naturally by accretion? How exactly would this work, establishing a stable orbit with gravity exerting it’s force?

I'm not playing this game.

It’s no game. I didn’t intend it to be.

You claim that science is wrong and there was a global flood and no evolution.

Now, why do you say that? You know very well - or at least you should - that I accept how animals have adapted / evolved on a limited scale.

You’re trying to create a strawman, using sweeping generalizations. What do you call that? Honesty?

The original claim was that buttercups had been found in the mouth of a single mammoth carcass as if they were just chomped on and the animal was instantly frozen. Selective references to material irrelevant to that and ignoring the information that is available explaining how this was a misinterpretation that grew in the retelling from residue found on teeth to being a mouthful of plants instantly frozen in time has been refuted.

“…this was a misinterpretation that grew in the retelling from residue found on teeth to being a mouthful of plants instantly frozen in time has been refuted”??

Did I ever say “mouthful”? No.
So this is not only inaccurate, but a weak rebuttal anyway…

From dying thousands of years ago and still finding even small ‘residues’— how can that happen , unless they were frozen quickly?! Such delicate material would have deteriorated, if it hadn’t frozen.

And whether a little or a mouthful was found, it still shows it existed in those climes, which were apparently much warmer — “50 to 75 (degrees) F” — than is accepted.

And if the argument was that mammoths didn't eat buttercups you could rest comfortably providing these references as evidence that they did eat them.

What?

Unfortunately, for you, and for us, that isn't the argument or what you previously claimed about buttercups.

What was my previous claim? It hasn’t changed.

I notice you didn't respond to my response about the relevance of discussing talking to dead people in a thread that isn't about that and has no bearing on what the is thread is about.

I wonder why?

But it does have bearing. A lot of bearing.

I’m going to post 5 Scriptures in a certain order, with no commentary from me. Only a few questions, to aid reasoning. (Read the context around each verse, if you’d like.)

Put the ideas together. I know you’re smart enough.

Genesis 6:1-4, ASV…
“And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born unto them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all that they chose. And Jehovah said, My spirit shall not strive with man for ever, for that he also is flesh: yet shall his days be a hundred and twenty years. The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them: the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown.”

2 Peter 2:4-6, Holman…
“For if God didn’t spare the angels who sinned but threw them down into Tartarus and delivered them to be kept in chains of darkness until judgment; and if He didn’t spare the ancient world, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others, when He brought a flood on the world of the ungodly…making them an example to those who were going to be ungodly…”

(Jude 1:6, NASB…
“And angels who did not keep their own domain but abandoned their proper dwelling place…”

Revelation 12:9, NIV…
“The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.”

Deuteronomy 18:10-12, NKJV…
“There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, or one who practices witchcraft, ora soothsayer*, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer,
or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead.
For all who do these things are an abomination to the LORD, and because of these abominations the LORD your God drives them out from before you.”
(*=Fortune-telling.)

Why does God impose such a heavy penalty on trying to speak with the dead, tying it in with witchcraft, sorcery & fortune-telling?

If God doesn’t approve of these things, could the intelligent power who “leads the whole world astray” be the source of these activities that attract humans?


I quoted from a variety of translations, so you can’t accuse me of using only JW material.

Since you claim your worship is based on Christ - for which I’m glad - and Christ is only based on the Bible, maybe you should have more faith in its words? Jesus did - John 17:17

I hope I didn’t waste my time. But even if you don’t appreciate it, I’m sure others who read it, will.

Goodnight.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Even at present buttercups and other flowering plants grow in the Arctic along the fringes of glaciers. Many herbivores today and in the past millions of years live along glacial fringes today and migrate seasonally.

A little science is the best cure for ignorance, but sometimes the ignorance is intentional. Ice sheets and glaciers grow because of snow accumulation at higher elevations and in polar regions and melt along the warmer fringe. During Ice Ages and today glaciers and ice sheets advanced and retreat with cycles of climate and seasonal.

Yes, the buttercup known as Ranunculus pygmaeus, but it seems it’s the only one. Is that the species found in the mammoth’s mouth/stomach? I could not find anything to specifically verify it.

 

[danieldemol]

Because, for one thing, it allowed these ones to do something, to show that their faith in God was alive. - James 2:17,26

Are you seriously alleging an All-knowing God needed people to make outward shows of their faith?!

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

humans remain humans, fish remain fish and getting down to basics, there ain't nowhere to go.

Again with that PRATT?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

When I interviewed God, he told me that the Great Flood covered everest and that there was remainders of the flood in solid ice including the glaciers. God also reported to me that the Great Flood was about 4,100 Earth years ago. God also told me there was about 700 survivors. God further told me that he artificially created an additional 120,000 new humans after the Great Flood!

The ghost that never lies told me that you were fooled by an extra-dimensional alien posing as god.

 

[shunyadragon]

Yes, the buttercup known as Ranunculus pygmaeus, but it seems it’s the only one. Is that the species found in the mammoth’s mouth/stomach? I could not find anything to specifically verify it.

Actually, regardless of which butter cup was found in the Mammoth's mouth. The herbivores like Mammoths migrated along Ice Age and glacier boundaries where there was abundant food. The borders of the glaciers and Ice sheets today and in the ice ages were more moderate climatically than in the middle of the glaciers and ice sheets where there were no migratory herbivores as to today and thousands of years ago. If you have not noticed there are no migratory herbivores in the middle of the Arctic, Antarctic, and glaciers today and they were not there in the Ice Ages.

Delicate plant materials can easily be frozen today and in the past in the situations described above.

I do not believe you read my previous post.

 

[shunyadragon]

And you still didn’t tell me where you stood.

In your estimation, what exactly are ‘God’s works’? Did the earth form naturally by accretion? How exactly would this work, establishing a stable orbit with gravity exerting it’s force?

It’s no game. I didn’t intend it to be.

Now, why do you say that? You know very well - or at least you should - that I accept how animals have adapted / evolved on a limited scale.

You’re trying to create a strawman, using sweeping generalizations. What do you call that? Honesty?

“…this was a misinterpretation that grew in the retelling from residue found on teeth to being a mouthful of plants instantly frozen in time has been refuted”??

Did I ever say “mouthful”? No.
So this is not only inaccurate, but a weak rebuttal anyway…

From dying thousands of years ago and still finding even small ‘residues’— how can that happen , unless they were frozen quickly?! Such delicate material would have deteriorated, if it hadn’t frozen.

And whether a little or a mouthful was found, it still shows it existed in those climes, which were apparently much warmer — “50 to 75 (degrees) F” — than is accepted.

What?

What was my previous claim? It hasn’t changed.


But it does have bearing. A lot of bearing.

No relative bearing based on actual complete knowledge of science related to the Ice Ages.

The Mammoths very simply could have died and been covered with snow in blizzards, avalanches and ice slides, common along glacial and Ice sheet climates today. which would have frozen them relatively quickly in the glacial boundary environment. We find remains of herbivores today like moose and elk suddenly covered by blizzards or snow avalanches.

Very very simple fact of physics: Something frozen solid in ice, like fragile plant material remains preserved and frozen until thawed out regardless of whether one day or thousands of years.

I’m going to post 5 Scriptures in a certain order, with no commentary from me. Only a few questions, to aid reasoning. (Read the context around each verse, if you’d like.)

Put the ideas together. I know you’re smart enough.

Genesis 6:1-4, ASV…
“And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born unto them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all that they chose. And Jehovah said, My spirit shall not strive with man for ever, for that he also is flesh: yet shall his days be a hundred and twenty years. The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them: the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown.”

2 Peter 2:4-6, Holman…
“For if God didn’t spare the angels who sinned but threw them down into Tartarus and delivered them to be kept in chains of darkness until judgment; and if He didn’t spare the ancient world, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others, when He brought a flood on the world of the ungodly…making them an example to those who were going to be ungodly…”

(Jude 1:6, NASB…
“And angels who did not keep their own domain but abandoned their proper dwelling place…”

Revelation 12:9, NIV…
“The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.”

Deuteronomy 18:10-12, NKJV…
“There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, or one who practices witchcraft, ora soothsayer*, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer,
or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead.
For all who do these things are an abomination to the LORD, and because of these abominations the LORD your God drives them out from before you.”
(*=Fortune-telling.)

Why does God impose such a heavy penalty on trying to speak with the dead, tying it in with witchcraft, sorcery & fortune-telling?

If God doesn’t approve of these things, could the intelligent power who “leads the whole world astray” be the source of these activities that attract humans?


I quoted from a variety of translations, so you can’t accuse me of using only JW material.

Since you claim your worship is based on Christ - for which I’m glad - and Christ is only based on the Bible, maybe you should have more faith in its words? Jesus did - John 17:17

I hope I didn’t waste my time. But even if you don’t appreciate it, I’m sure others who read it, will.

Goodnight.

Regardless of what material you cite. You selectively and dishonestly cite your references from the JW perspectives.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes, the buttercup known as Ranunculus pygmaeus, but it seems it’s the only one. Is that the species found in the mammoth’s mouth/stomach? I could not find anything to specifically verify it.

That or a variant of it would be the most likely buttercup. Do you not realize that you relied on the temperature of when they bloom? Buttercups are not a semitropical plant. They are a temperate plant. They are found in northern Europe and much of North America. There are 1,700 species roughly. They can take winter time temperatures. You just misunderstood a source:

Ranunculus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[shunyadragon]

In your estimation, what exactly are ‘God’s works’? Did the earth form naturally by accretion? How exactly would this work, establishing a stable orbit with gravity exerting it’s force?

Yes, that is roughly how the Earth and other planets form by gravity and Natural Laws. It God exists God works by Natural Laws and Natural processes over billions of years. God does not place objectively verifiable evidence to trick science into false theories and hypotheses.

 

[Astrophile]

In your estimation, what exactly are ‘God’s works’? Did the earth form naturally by accretion? How exactly would this work, establishing a stable orbit with gravity exerting it’s force?

This is off the topic of NOAH's FLOOD, but I don't mind trying to answer your second and third questions. (The first is out of my field.)

Yes, the Earth probably did form naturally by accretion. Astronomers have observed protoplanetary discs surrounding young stars, and have even found evidence of planets forming in these discs. (See the image of the star HL Tauri below.) In the solar system, we have evidence of small bodies, such as the double nuclei of Comet Churyumov-Gerasimenko and the Kuiper-belt object 486958 Arrokoth (see below) colliding and joining together.

The exact process of planetary formation by accretion has turned out to be very complex, and to give a full account of the present scientific understanding of the process would require a book; your question certainly can't be answered in the space available on an Internet forum. If you read the article Formation and evolution of the Solar System - Wikipedia and some of its 140 references, they should convince you at least of the complexity of the process. However, the fact that many (perhaps most) stars have planets, and that astronomers have observed planets forming in discs surrounding young stars, implies that the formation of planets occurs naturally and does not require miracles.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

And you still didn’t tell me where you stood.

In your estimation, what exactly are ‘God’s works’? Did the earth form naturally by accretion? How exactly would this work, establishing a stable orbit with gravity exerting it’s force?

It’s no game. I didn’t intend it to be.

Now, why do you say that? You know very well - or at least you should - that I accept how animals have adapted / evolved on a limited scale.

You’re trying to create a strawman, using sweeping generalizations. What do you call that? Honesty?

“…this was a misinterpretation that grew in the retelling from residue found on teeth to being a mouthful of plants instantly frozen in time has been refuted”??

Did I ever say “mouthful”? No.
So this is not only inaccurate, but a weak rebuttal anyway…

From dying thousands of years ago and still finding even small ‘residues’— how can that happen , unless they were frozen quickly?! Such delicate material would have deteriorated, if it hadn’t frozen.

And whether a little or a mouthful was found, it still shows it existed in those climes, which were apparently much warmer — “50 to 75 (degrees) F” — than is accepted.

What?

What was my previous claim? It hasn’t changed.


But it does have bearing. A lot of bearing.

I’m going to post 5 Scriptures in a certain order, with no commentary from me. Only a few questions, to aid reasoning. (Read the context around each verse, if you’d like.)

Put the ideas together. I know you’re smart enough.

Genesis 6:1-4, ASV…
“And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born unto them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all that they chose. And Jehovah said, My spirit shall not strive with man for ever, for that he also is flesh: yet shall his days be a hundred and twenty years. The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them: the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown.”

2 Peter 2:4-6, Holman…
“For if God didn’t spare the angels who sinned but threw them down into Tartarus and delivered them to be kept in chains of darkness until judgment; and if He didn’t spare the ancient world, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others, when He brought a flood on the world of the ungodly…making them an example to those who were going to be ungodly…”

(Jude 1:6, NASB…
“And angels who did not keep their own domain but abandoned their proper dwelling place…”

Revelation 12:9, NIV…
“The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.”

Deuteronomy 18:10-12, NKJV…
“There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, or one who practices witchcraft, ora soothsayer*, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer,
or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead.
For all who do these things are an abomination to the LORD, and because of these abominations the LORD your God drives them out from before you.”
(*=Fortune-telling.)

Why does God impose such a heavy penalty on trying to speak with the dead, tying it in with witchcraft, sorcery & fortune-telling?

If God doesn’t approve of these things, could the intelligent power who “leads the whole world astray” be the source of these activities that attract humans?


I quoted from a variety of translations, so you can’t accuse me of using only JW material.

Since you claim your worship is based on Christ - for which I’m glad - and Christ is only based on the Bible, maybe you should have more faith in its words? Jesus did - John 17:17

I hope I didn’t waste my time. But even if you don’t appreciate it, I’m sure others who read it, will.

Goodnight.

I'm sure this is all fascinating and everything, but I'm curious when you will start presenting the evidence and explanation for your claims. That's what were all waiting for.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I'm sure this is all fascinating and everything, but I'm curious when you will start presenting the evidence and explanation for your claims. That's what were all waiting for.

When you answer those questions….

In your estimation, what exactly are ‘God’s works’? Did the earth form naturally by accretion? How exactly would this work, establishing a stable orbit with gravity exerting it’s force?

Now, why do you say [I claim there is “no evolution”]?

Did I ever say “mouthful” [of buttercups] ?

What do you call that? Honesty?

From dying thousands of years ago and still finding even small ‘residues’[of buttercups]— how can that happen , unless they were frozen quickly?!

The others I asked, I don’t care.

If you’re not willing to answer my questions, then I’m not willing to share any more dialogue with you.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

It God exists God works by Natural Laws and Natural processes over billions of years.

Yes, I agree. He established those laws, to keep His creation surviving & thriving.

God does not place objectively verifiable evidence to trick science into false theories and hypotheses.

First, identify what “objectively verifiable evidence” you mean.

(One of your responses, regarding the freezing of items, actually supported my claim.)

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Regardless of what material you cite. You selectively and dishonestly cite your references from the JW perspectives.

“Dishonestly”?! The “material” I cited, in the post you replied to, was nothing but Scriptures from various Bible translations, none of which are related to JW sources!

 

[Subduction Zone]

When you answer those questions….









The others I asked, I don’t care.

If you’re not willing to answer my questions, then I’m not willing to share any more dialogue with you.

If you want answers you should ask your questions one at a time. You cannot go into any depth when your questions are asked this way.

As to your fixation with buttercups, do you understand that that has been dealt with? If does not help your myth at all.

 

[Audie]

Yes, I agree. He established those laws, to keep His creation surviving & thriving.

First, identify what “objectively verifiable evidence” you mean.

(One of your responses, regarding the freezing of items, actually supported my claim.)

Flash-Frozen Mammoths and Their Buttercups: Yet Another Case of Repetition and Recycling of Bad Data

I wasn’t planning on doing more on frozen mammoths after yesterday’s discussion of dining on them, but I found myself increasingly intrigued by the fact that so many fringe history claims for...

www.jasoncolavito.com

 

[shunyadragon]

“Dishonestly”?! The “material” I cited, in the post you replied to, was nothing but Scriptures from various Bible translations, none of which are related to JW sources!

I did not ever say you cited only JW materials!. Bible quotes, hmmmm! No references concerning science. Biblical references are likely related to JW.

You did selectively and dishonestly cite science sources from the JW perspective on Mammoths and Buttercups without any background knowledge of the subject.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Flash-Frozen Mammoths and Their Buttercups: Yet Another Case of Repetition and Recycling of Bad Data

I wasn’t planning on doing more on frozen mammoths after yesterday’s discussion of dining on them, but I found myself increasingly intrigued by the fact that so many fringe history claims for...

www.jasoncolavito.com

It won't matter. Creationists are often immune to the facts.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

When you answer those questions….

No. I don't have to for you to be able to do what you claim you can. This is sad that you even go that way.

The others I asked, I don’t care.

More games?

If you’re not willing to answer my questions, then I’m not willing to share any more dialogue with you.

Your questions are entirely irrelevant and now it seems like you are using that as leverage to avoid your responsibilities and obligations. I didn't see that coming.

 

[Audie]

It won't matter. Creationists are often immune to the facts.

I sort of collecting weird n wacky
"explanations ".