Evidence of One Deity

[Vinayaka]

Facts are at material level. Truths are at spiritual level. They are not the same. You learn/know facts, but you experience/live truths.

In my opinion, one person's 'truth' is another's lie, or misconception. At least it can be. An atheist can say that he has 'experienced' the truth that there is no God. I'm not sure if you're even implying, in your opinion, that there is a universal 'truth'.

I definitely agree that the knowledge of experience is a greater knowledge than regurgitated mumbo-jumbo.

 

[Tonymai]

In my opinion, one person's 'truth' is another's lie, or misconception. At least it can be. An atheist can say that he has 'experienced' the truth that there is no God. I'm not sure if you're even implying, in your opinion, that there is a universal 'truth'.

I definitely agree that the knowledge of experience is a greater knowledge than regurgitated mumbo-jumbo.

Everybody is born without knowing God or experiencing spiritual reality. If such person truly experiences God in is personal living without following the pattern of brain-washing (Theist or atheist) dumped upon him due to his generation and locale, he lives on a higher plane of truth.

 

[9Westy9]

Everybody is born without knowing God or experiencing spiritual reality. If such person truly experiences God in is personal living without following the pattern of brain-washing (Theist or atheist) dumped upon him due to his generation and locale, he lives on a higher plane of truth.

What sort of experience are we talking about?

 

[Tonymai]

What sort of experience are we talking about?

The experiences of coming out of brain-wash, and truly objectively assessing one's life. When you have enough such de-brain-wash, you will be able to examine your own life experiences more objectively. You will see you have an inner life and an outer life. And it is in the inner life of the man that he experiences the truth of Deity.

 

[Riverwolf]

The experiences of coming out of brain-wash, and truly objectively assessing one's life. When you have enough such de-brain-wash, you will be able to examine your own life experiences more objectively. You will see you have an inner life and an outer life. And it is in the inner life of the man that he experiences the truth of Deity.

Sounds kind of like the path of Jnana Yoga.

 

[Tonymai]

Sounds kind of like the path of Jnana Yoga.

If you do not follow the guide of the spirit of God living within you, but following some kind of path, you still need the brain-wash of that path.

 

[Riverwolf]

If you do not follow the guide of the spirit of God living within you, but following some kind of path, you still need the brain-wash of that path.

...and that's what Jnana Yoga is.

 

[Tonymai]

...and that's what Jnana Yoga is.

One must personally experience the inner transformation, and the outer forms become immaterial. Only those who share the inner experiences of finding God within can share the comprehension. However, such sharing can still be partial due to uniqueness of each individual, and the subjective nature of inner experiences.

 

[outhouse]

People can conceive the concepts of God, have worshipful feelings, and realize spiritual experiences.

yes without a god ever stepping into reality from ancient mans imagination.

your context works perfect for a manmade god

 

[Tonymai]

yes without a god ever stepping into reality from ancient mans imagination.

your context works perfect for a manmade god

You simply assume man of current day and age can not experience God like the prophets of the olden days. This is the assume you assume game played in reverse. You assume others inner experiences are not real because you have not experienced similar inner experiences. True evidence of God is always within the domain of personal (inner) experiences. Since you do not seek such experiences, you can not find a thread of evidence in your life.

On the other hand, outer experiences may be more easily reproduced objectively. If you insist God exists in material reality, you will never find Him. It is like try to get a piglet out of a chicken egg. The spirit of God does not live in material reality.

You must transcend material reality.

 

[outhouse]

You simply assume man of current day and age can not experience God like the prophets of the olden days.

my statements have nothing to with this at all

You assume others inner experiences are not real

wrong on all parts

what you percieve is real to you. it doesnt make it reality though.

True evidence of God is

there is none.

only evidence ancient hebrews created many early gods as their culture started and they needed deities desperately for everyday life.

The spirit of God does not live in material reality.

yes nor anywhere else as far as we know

 

[Tonymai]

my statements have nothing to with this at all





wrong on all parts

what you percieve is real to you. it doesnt make it reality though.





there is none.

only evidence ancient hebrews created many early gods as their culture started and they needed deities desperately for everyday life.




yes nor anywhere else as far as we know

Your evidence is only relative to you and those who believe with you. You can not possibly know what is real to others are not realities that you have not yet discovered just like that you do not understand a scientific law does not mean others do not.

Besides, God to you may be are your the subjective interpretations you have got from what others have told. God to a God conscious person are experiences beyond descriptions given by others.

If you seek evidence of God in what other have to say about God, you bond to fail because God is beyond what others people say about Him.

If we play intellectual games, you can always say no, and I say yes. We go nowhere for we have no common ground to test what way commonly denoted as God. It is best we agree to disagree.

Spirit reality can not be perceived with materialistic views of reality.

 

[Riverwolf]

One must personally experience the inner transformation, and the outer forms become immaterial. Only those who share the inner experiences of finding God within can share the comprehension. However, such sharing can still be partial due to uniqueness of each individual, and the subjective nature of inner experiences.

How is that a response to what I said?

 

[Vinayaka]

Your evidence is only relative to you and those who believe with you.

True this ... for everyone, including the writer of it.

 

[outhouse]

Spirit reality can not be perceived with materialistic views of reality.

So what your saying is a god does not nor can exist in the real world??

your helping my point of view bud.

Your evidence is only relative to you and those who believe with you.

No

my evidence exist for all mankind as part of its cultural history. Its not up for debate or arguement. Man has and will create deities for his cultural needs. Man has done this as far as writing goes back, we know this is a fact. It is not percieved reality it is fact.

You can not possibly know what is real to others are not realities that you have not yet discovered

exactly and it applys to you, and its my point.

you define all deities as one and claim to have evidence. how are you so special to be able to define such a power you yourself claims doesnt exist in the material world????


we are exactly the same, YOU dont believe in the thousands of deities man has created, I believe in ONE less then you.

we are both skeptics

 

[Tonymai]

So what your saying is a god does not nor can exist in the real world??

your helping my point of view bud.





No

my evidence exist for all mankind as part of its cultural history. Its not up for debate or arguement. Man has and will create deities for his cultural needs. Man has done this as far as writing goes back, we know this is a fact. It is not percieved reality it is fact.





exactly and it applys to you, and its my point.

you define all deities as one and claim to have evidence. how are you so special to be able to define such a power you yourself claims doesnt exist in the material world????


we are exactly the same, YOU dont believe in the thousands of deities man has created, I believe in ONE less then you.

we are both skeptics

History is not indicative of now and future, you can not your past experience as a yard stick for your future realization. Just like you can not believe what the prophets of the olden days said without you personally verifying with your own personal experiences.

Being material without spiritual experiences, it is easy to take the skeptic position intellectually for spiritual experiences can not be materially verified. And it is easy to take only materially verifiable reality as true for it is repeatable scientifically. This does not make none scientifically verifiable experience unreal.

Scientific materialism has become so dogmatic that it insists only materially verifiable as real. But evidence of God is not in material reality. Science can not measure God just like you can not determine where is your consciousness even though you know where your brain is.

I can not make you experience what my experience with Deity just like you can not make me dream your dreams. But this does not prevent me from claim my experience with Deity as evidence and I well know that I can not produce material evidence of God for you. I fully agree with you that man can not and will not find material evidence of Deity until has personally experienced God spiritually.

 

[outhouse]

spiritual experiences can not be materially verified

there is a reason for that.

But evidence of God is not in material reality.

so you force beleif in magic.

But this does not prevent me from claim my experience with Deity as evidence

i dont have a problem with your perceptions

but in no way shape or form are they evidence of anything outside of your imagination. that is my only point.





If you came out and said god is a feeling we harbor inside our hearts and live around the created theology i would agree.

but when you take this feeling and inject it into every one elses reality I have a problem, as well as you trying to describe or define this deity outside of just a feeling.

 

[Tristesse]

A spirit of God indwells within each person's mind. Such spiritual influence causes people to conceive Deity concepts, to construct theology and to experience worshipful feelings. Such spirit fragments are from the same God. However due to the uniqueness of each individual, the age and generation of him in the evolutionary process, his reception of such spirit ministry differs from others.

Such differences in response to the spirit in individuals and in different cultural groups many cause many different religions to crop up.

You do realize that everything you're saying is just an assertion with no evidentiary bases? In other words, there is no REASON for anyone to believe that what you're saying is remotely true.

 

[Tonymai]

there is a reason for that.






so you force beleif in magic.






i dont have a problem with your perceptions

but in no way shape or form are they evidence of anything outside of your imagination. that is my only point.





If you came out and said god is a feeling we harbor inside our hearts and live around the created theology i would agree.

but when you take this feeling and inject it into every one elses reality I have a problem, as well as you trying to describe or define this deity outside of just a feeling.

Reality of God does not change according to whether a person believes or not; otherwise, it is indeed an imagination. That the earth moving around the sun is a reality does not depends whether a perceiver believes it or not.

I can simply attribute that you can find evidence of God is due to your spiritual blindness/immaturity just like you say that my evidence of God was my imagination. Truth does not suffer from honest examination.

 

[Tonymai]

You do realize that everything you're saying is just an assertion with no evidentiary bases? In other words, there is no REASON for anyone to believe that what you're saying is remotely true.

It is not my job to convince you of the reality of God just like it is not my job to tell you convince you the earth is circling around the sun. If you do not examine within yourself whether a spirit of Deity lives there, your logic and reason will eventually deny the existence of God. Only personal experiences with the Deity will make the seed of faith grow. God seeking is always a personal struggle, not an external harmony with what others have told you or believed.