Evidence of the Non-Physical

[DNB]

Yes, it's in my post which you have ignored, here it is again then:



I emboldened the reason the bible gives for you. Look it up if you don't believe me.

My apologies, you're right - you were referring to the baby's demise, not the parents.
But, again Sheldon, and I am not being flipping nor frivolous in my response, a sovereign God is entitled to create beings for various purposes, nor are we familiar with what the afterlife holds for such premature deaths (before the age of accountability). Whatever God's judgement will be, there will be justice.
So, yes, I am unaware of many facets of redemption and perdition, for as I said before, holiness is extremely profound and elusive to humans who have become so desensitized in this corrupt and reprobate world.

 

[DNB]

The point he's trying to make is that the thing that you're calling "laws of gravity" are just an explanatory model that Newton came up with. And we know the model isn't even correct. It's good for everyday use, but not as correct as, say, Einstein's spacetime model.

Anyways, why do you believe there's a "who" necessary for gravity to work?

I'm aware of the point that he is attempting to make, no one denied his claim, but contested his understanding of a law articulator, and that of a law architect.

Then who or what established the laws of gravity, and all physics and sciences known to man?

 

[DNB]

I never said he created it's forces, you're moving the goal posts now, I said he did create the laws, which was what you asked. You don't seem to understand what I have said, or you don't understand what you asked, or both of course.

Nonetheless the scientific laws of gravity were created by Sir Isaac Newton in 1687, and he published these in his “Philosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica”.

Look Bazinga, the point was made in regard to another poster's response as to how gravity caused certain things to occur. I responded by saying, 'who established the laws of gravity that are behind your assertion'. Not the definition known to man, just the fact that it works as it does regardless of the interpretation.

 

[Sheldon]

My apologies, you're right - you were referring to the baby's demise, not the parents.
But, again Sheldon, and I am not being flipping nor frivolous in my response, a sovereign God is entitled to create beings for various purposes, nor are we familiar with what the afterlife holds for such premature deaths (before the age of accountability). Whatever God's judgement will be, there will be justice.
So, yes, I am unaware of many facets of redemption and perdition, for as I said before, holiness is extremely profound and elusive to humans who have become so desensitized in this corrupt and reprobate world.

So is torturing new born babies to death moral then?

How about owning slaves, is there any context where you think it is moral for one human to buy and own another?

Now you also asserted one has to abide by biblical texts to be moral, So I ask again, since you don't seem to have answered, can you name one moral action that a theist can do, that an atheist cannot?

 

[Hidingfromyou]

I'm aware of the point that he is attempting to make, no one denied his claim, but contested his understanding of a law articulator, and that of a law architect.

Then who or what established the laws of gravity, and all physics and sciences known to man?

As I patiently explained to you previously, the "who" part of your question is nonsensical and the only reason you're asking it is because you are encultured to your religion.

If I ask you why "who" is so compelling for you, the only way you can answer this is to present culturally constructed rationales. These are meaningless outside of your religious culture and so not universally meaningful questions.

They're subjectively meaningful to you because, in their recursive logic, they reinforce your religious belief system.

 

[Sheldon]

Look Bazinga, the point was made in regard to another poster's response as to how gravity caused certain things to occur. I responded by saying, 'who established the laws of gravity that are behind your assertion'. Not the definition known to man, just the fact that it works as it does regardless of the interpretation.

Sir Isaac Newton established the laws of gravity, as I said. It seems you don't see the significance. As I said, scientific laws are descriptive, and not prescriptive. Humans create scientific theories and these sometimes contain scientific laws. The theories are broad explanations of naturally occurring phenomena, and explain why certain aspects of the natural world are the way they are, scientific laws are much smaller and concise explanations of how certain aspects of those broad phenomena behave. They are both created by humans to help us understand how the natural world and universe work.

 

[Hidingfromyou]

Sir Isaac Newton established the laws of gravity, as I said. It seems you don't see the significance. As I said, scientific laws are descriptive, and not prescriptive. Humans create scientific theories and these sometimes contain scientific laws. The theories are broad explanations of naturally occurring phenomena, and explain why certain aspects of the natural world are the way they are, scientific laws are much smaller and concise explanations of how certain aspects of those broad phenomena behave. They are both created by humans to help us understand how the natural world and universe work.

Oh, yeah?!? Nothing you write matters because Thor exists!!!

Ta~daaaaaaaaaa.

 

[Lain]

Oh, yeah?!? Nothing you write matters because Thor exists!!!

Ta~daaaaaaaaaa.

Hell yeah!

 

[Hidingfromyou]

Hell yeah!

hahaha, nice!

 

[muhammad_isa]

My question is: how worried are you that in other religions you're going to their hells?

There is only one hell..
..and that is of our own making.
Righteous people who believe in G-d don't end up in hell.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..can you name one moral action that a theist can do, that an atheist cannot?

I can .. humble themselves before God.

 

[Hidingfromyou]

There is only one hell..
..and that is of our own making.
Righteous people who believe in G-d don't end up in hell.

What about the Mayans? Are the 'good' Mayans in Mayan heaven?

 

[Hidingfromyou]

I can .. humble themselves before God.

If you were humble, you wouldn't be making authoritative statements about the afterlife that you have no way of knowing.

You don't know more than anyone else what happens to us when we die. You're basically repeating mythological claims at us as if they were valid.

By now you've probably guessed that I like arguing - and it seems you do, too. Probably everyone here does. None of us are really humble here, we all have our beliefs that we're shouting at each other "I'm correct!"

I have a Buddhist monk friend, has his own temple. I once tried to debate with him in the same manner that is traditional in the West, with Abrahamic religions, like we're all doing here. He only responded like this, "Ah, so . . . " and "I see, I see."

That's being humble, my friend.

We aren't humble.

 

[muhammad_isa]

What about the Mayans? Are the 'good' Mayans in Mayan heaven?

There is no such thing.
Heaven and hell are states of being.
We reap what we sow.

 

[muhammad_isa]

You don't know more than anyone else what happens to us when we die.

..not a lot more, no.
Only G-d knows a person's final destination.
Not one of us would enter paradise without G-d's mercy.
We are all sinners.
The most important thing is our intention.

 

[Hidingfromyou]

..not a lot more, no.
Only G-d knows a person's final destination.
Not one of us would enter paradise without G-d's mercy.
We are all sinners.
The most important thing is our intention.

Your beliefs aren't human universals. They're only real for you and other fellow believers. But you project them onto everyone without more than "because I say so!"

So, I dismiss your claims.

 

[Hidingfromyou]

There is no such thing.
Heaven and hell are states of being.
We reap what we sow.

Nah, they're fictions from mythology and don't exist.

 

[muhammad_isa]

you project them onto everyone without more than "because I say so!"

Demonstrably untrue.
I don''t project anything on to anybody.
I give my opinion based on experience and research.
Your experience in life is obviously different.

 

[Hidingfromyou]

Demonstrably untrue.
I don''t project anything on to anybody.
I give my opinion based on experience and research.
Your experience in life is obviously different.

Fair enough, I stand corrected.

How did you do your research?

 

[muhammad_isa]

How did you do your research?

It is a lifetime job. We never stop learning.
Clearly, there is literature, but that alone cannot give one a complete insight into religious belief.
Travel gives us a more rounded experience of how beliefs interact with the environments that people live in, and how belief impacts real living people.

The media can give us false impressions, as it is not the same thing as living in different places.
..just a couple examples of what I mean by "research".