Evidence, science and religion and that evidence matters.

[firedragon]

Yeah and I have linked to other views than yours in this thread.
And other social and cultural understandings of what science is.
So you claim is irrelvant for all understandings of what science is. It is only relevant if someone believes that is the only version of science.

haha. Okay mate. Cheers.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

haha. Okay mate. Cheers.

And on ignore you go for now. I considered it before, but gave you a chance. But you were true to form.

 

[firedragon]

And on ignore you go for now.

Excellent. Thank you so much. have a great day.

Cheers.

 

[paarsurrey]

Evidence, science and religion and that evidence matters.

Evident does not need any evidence necessarily, in "science and religion", please, right?

Regards

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Evidence, science and religion and that evidence matters.

Evident does not need any evidence necessarily, in "science and religion", please, right?

Regards

Well it is in part different belief-systems, but that does'nt mean everything is subjective. So in practice all beliefs don't have the same results and we are not the same as humans, so we cope differently.
And, no your belief-system is neither true or false. It is just yours, just as mine is mine.
So I accept that we do it differently.
Do you accept that?

And for evident and evidence that is in my belief-system just playing with words.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Then just do the rest of us a favor and stop talking about sicence, when you are talking about natural science, because natural science is not the only kind of science and not all versions of science depend objectivity in the same sense as natural science. That is all.

When you talk about science in context of subjects like biology, physics, etc... it's pretty obvious which branch of science one is speaking about.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

When you talk about science in context of subjects like biology, physics, etc... it's pretty obvious which branch of science one is speaking about.

Yeah, of course, but not what different version of methodology is assumed. I.e. Popper, Logical Postivism and so on. Or what kind of naturalsim is aaumed.
There are no single version of a methodlogy for even natural science, if you look closer.
What is meant with say fact is not the same for all the different methodoligies.

 

[gnostic]

So let me explain to you, what you are doing. You are in effect claiming that what atheism and science are objective and not in effect social and cultural.

That’s strawman.

For one, atheism isn't science.

I have never claimed atheism to be “objective“.

I only said that atheism HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SCIENCE - not natural science, not social science.

The only thing that atheism is focused on, is philosophical position that atheist don’t believe in existence of any or lack belief in the existence of any god. Nothing more, nothing less.

How they (atheists) arrived to that position, have absolutely nothing to do with science. And you don't need science to validate any atheist's position.

Scientist is a job or career, a qualified professional who specialised in a specific field(s).

Atheist isn’t a job, you don’t require any scientific qualification in being an atheist. And I will iterate again, atheism isn’t science.

Theism is also not science. Agnosticism? …also not science.

None of these -isms are science - not panetheism, not pantheism, not deism, and so on. And more importantly, none of these -isms are objective.

I cannot be any clearer than that.

My advice to you, is stop parroting typical anti-science & science-illiterate creationists, who believe atheism & science to be synonymous. You only sounds as ignorant as creationists.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

That’s strawman.

For one, atheism isn't science.

I have never claimed atheism to be “objective“.

I only said that atheism HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SCIENCE - not natural science, not social science.

The only thing that atheism is focused on, is philosophical position that atheist don’t believe in existence of any or lack belief in the existence of any god. Nothing more, nothing less.

How they (atheists) arrived to that position, have absolutely nothing to do with science. And you don't need science to validate any atheist's position.

Scientist is a job or career, a qualified professional who specialised in a specific field(s).

Atheist isn’t a job, you don’t require any scientific qualification in being an atheist. And I will iterate again, atheism isn’t science.

Theism is also not science. Agnosticism? …also not science.

None of these -isms are science - not panetheism, not pantheism, not deism, and so on. And more importantly, none of these -isms are objective.

I cannot be any clearer than that.

My advice to you, is stop parroting typical anti-science & science-illiterate creationists, who believe atheism & science to be synonymous. You only sounds as ignorant as creationists.

I don't care what tyou think atheism is, becasue you are no the only atheist.
So it ends here for now. There are other atheists than us 2 and you are not the objective authoritative source for atheism. Neither am I. I just show you that there are more than one version of atheism. That is all and one is connected to science.

 

[gnostic]

I don't care what tyou think atheism is, becasue you are no the only atheist.
So it ends here for now. There are other atheists than us 2 and you are not the objective authoritative source for atheism. Neither am I. I just show you that there are more than one version of atheism. That is all and one is connected to science.

As I keep telling you, atheism is no more science than theism is.

And you don’t have to be authoritative to be atheist, because atheism is a person’s position. Being an atheist don’t require knowledge in science. You can be an accountant, salesperson, chef, fisherman, carpenter, etc, and be atheist (or theist or agnostic) without knowledge or expertise in science.

you are sounding more ignorant than usual.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

As I keep telling you, atheism is no more science than theism is.

And you don’t have to be authoritative to be atheist, because atheism is a person’s position. Being an atheist don’t require knowledge in science. You can be an accountant, salesperson, chef, fisherman, carpenter, etc, and be atheist (or theist or agnostic) without knowledge or expertise in science.

you are sounding more ignorant than usual.

Well, there are other athesit than us, who believe differently about being an atheist.

 

[gnostic]

Well, there are other athesit than us, who believe differently about being an atheist.

Then ask them, instead of making it up.

 

[shunyadragon]

Evidence, science and religion and that evidence matters.

Evident does not need any evidence necessarily, in "science and religion", please, right?

Regards

No as stated may be misleading What is evident is too variable a claim. Science is based on a history of objective verifiable evidence is more reliable than any claim of what may be claimed as evident from the perspective of different beliefs.

Actually science avoids what is claimed to be evident by definition, because nothing is obvious from the scientific perspective.

 

[shunyadragon]

Well, there are other athesit than us, who believe differently about being an atheist.

OK, but why do you claim to be atheist as meaningful in terms of your negative view of science with the mindless accusation of Scientism. Yes, the accusation of "Scientism" is by far a cynical mindless accusation of science by extreme Theists, but you being an atheist does not change the problem.

Can you be more specific with examples of "Scientism" in science?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Then ask them, instead of making it up.

Well, they have already told us:
"Definitions
Atheism is the comprehensive world view of persons who are free from theism and have freed themselves of supernatural beliefs altogether. It is predicated on ancient Greek Materialism.

Atheism involves the mental attitude that unreservedly accepts the supremacy of reason and aims at establishing a life-style and ethical outlook verifiable by experience and the scientific method, independent of all arbitrary assumptions of authority and creeds.

Materialism declares that the cosmos is devoid of immanent conscious purpose; that it is governed by its own inherent, immutable, and impersonal laws; that there is no supernatural interference in human life; that humankind, finding the resources within themselves, can and must create their own destiny. It teaches that we must prize our life on earth and strive always to improve it. It holds that human beings are capable of creating a social system based on reason and justice. Materialism’s ‘faith’ is in humankind and their ability to transform the world culture by their own efforts. This is a commitment that is, in its very essence, life-asserting. It considers the struggle for progress as a moral obligation that is impossible without noble ideas that inspire us to bold, creative works. Materialism holds that our potential for good and more fulfilling cultural development is, for all practical purposes, unlimited."

Our Vision

We envision a world in which policies are made using the best evidence we have rather than using religious dogma.

www.atheists.org

So I don't have to ask them.
And have I made this up?

 

[gnostic]

Well, they have already told us:
"Definitions
Atheism is the comprehensive world view of persons who are free from theism and have freed themselves of supernatural beliefs altogether. It is predicated on ancient Greek Materialism.

Atheism involves the mental attitude that unreservedly accepts the supremacy of reason and aims at establishing a life-style and ethical outlook verifiable by experience and the scientific method, independent of all arbitrary assumptions of authority and creeds.

Materialism declares that the cosmos is devoid of immanent conscious purpose; that it is governed by its own inherent, immutable, and impersonal laws; that there is no supernatural interference in human life; that humankind, finding the resources within themselves, can and must create their own destiny. It teaches that we must prize our life on earth and strive always to improve it. It holds that human beings are capable of creating a social system based on reason and justice. Materialism’s ‘faith’ is in humankind and their ability to transform the world culture by their own efforts. This is a commitment that is, in its very essence, life-asserting. It considers the struggle for progress as a moral obligation that is impossible without noble ideas that inspire us to bold, creative works. Materialism holds that our potential for good and more fulfilling cultural development is, for all practical purposes, unlimited."

Our Vision

We envision a world in which policies are made using the best evidence we have rather than using religious dogma.

www.atheists.org

So I don't have to ask them.
And have I made this up?

to claim that atheism is the same thing as science, is a false equivalence.

now, you are believing that atheism is the same thing as materialism, is another false equivalence.

materialism is a philosophy, not science.

Are there anything that you don’t apply false equivalence to?

you may be an atheist, but you are lousy at science as any creationist, if you cannot distinguish between science and atheism. You are just as science-illiterate as any creationist I have seen.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

to claim that atheism is the same thing as science, is a false equivalence.

now, you are believing that atheism is the same thing as materialism, is another false equivalence.

Are there anything that you don’t apply false equivalence to?

you may be an atheist, but you are lousy at science as any creationist, if you cannot distinguish between science and atheism. You are just as science-illiterate as any creationist I have seen.

Well, do you think I am the the owner and authoer of this site?

About Us

Since 1963, American Atheists has been the premier organization fighting for the civil liberties of atheists and the total, absolute separation of government and religion. American Atheists was born out of a court case begun in 1959 by the Murray family which challenged prayer recitation in the...

www.atheists.org

Our Vision

We envision a world in which policies are made using the best evidence we have rather than using religious dogma.

www.atheists.org

I mean I was born in 1965.

I don't personally think that atheist has anything to do with atheism. I am saying there are some other atheists, who believe that:
"Atheism involves the mental attitude that unreservedly accepts the supremacy of reason and aims at establishing a life-style and ethical outlook verifiable by experience and the scientific method, independent of all arbitrary assumptions of authority and creeds."

 

[gnostic]

I mean I was born in 1965.

what does that have to do with any of the stupid craps you have been ranting on.

when you were born is meaningless.

you are confusing atheism with science, and now you are confusing mater with science.

both atheism and materialism are both philosophies, not science.

all i see from you, is you demonstrating you are clueless as to what science is, and how science do thing. it doesn’t require this crap philosophies that you are associating with science.

Even the stupid accusations of scientism, is another stupid philosophy.

just how many false equivalence are you going to use, to feed your anti-science position?

you are just as biased against science and as ignorant about natural sciences as these creationists.

And btw, mikkel. I’m an agnostic, not atheist.

And like theism and atheism, agnosticism isn’t science. All 3 of these -isms are philosophical positions that only deal with the question of any deity’s existence, nothing more, nothing less.

And lastly, I have corrected you with some explanations in my past replies to you…and quite often you would say that you “don’t care” what I think or say. Like just about creationists, you cannot learn from your mistakes. Stubborn ignorance, is just being biased.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

what does that have to do with any of the stupid craps you have been ranting on.

when you were born is meaningless.

you are confusing atheism with science, and now you are confusing mater with science.

both atheism and materialism are both philosophies, not science.

all i see from you, is you demonstrating you are clueless as to what science is, and how science do thing. it doesn’t require this crap philosophies that you are associating with science.

Even the stupid accusations of scientism, is another stupid philosophy.

just how many false equivalence are you going to use, to feed your anti-science position?

you are just as biased against science and as ignorant about natural sciences as these creationists.

And btw, mikkel. I’m an agnostic, not atheist.

And like theism and atheism, agnosticism isn’t science. All 3 of these -isms are philosophical positions that only deal with the question of any deity’s existence, nothing more, nothing less.

And lastly, I have corrected you with some explanations in my past replies to you…and quite often you would say that you “don’t care” what I think or say. Like just about creationists, you cannot learn from your mistakes. Stubborn ignorance, is just being biased.

Well, I acknowledge that you are an atheist.
But you are not the only one.
So while I as also an athesit do not believe atheism is connected to science and materialism, there are so atheists, who believe that.
Taken from the site link below the text:
"...
Definitions
Atheism is the comprehensive world view of persons who are free from theism and have freed themselves of supernatural beliefs altogether. It is predicated on ancient Greek Materialism.

Atheism involves the mental attitude that unreservedly accepts the supremacy of reason and aims at establishing a life-style and ethical outlook verifiable by experience and the scientific method, independent of all arbitrary assumptions of authority and creeds.

Materialism declares that the cosmos is devoid of immanent conscious purpose; that it is governed by its own inherent, immutable, and impersonal laws; that there is no supernatural interference in human life; that humankind, finding the resources within themselves, can and must create their own destiny. It teaches that we must prize our life on earth and strive always to improve it. It holds that human beings are capable of creating a social system based on reason and justice. Materialism’s ‘faith’ is in humankind and their ability to transform the world culture by their own efforts. This is a commitment that is, in its very essence, life-asserting. It considers the struggle for progress as a moral obligation that is impossible without noble ideas that inspire us to bold, creative works. Materialism holds that our potential for good and more fulfilling cultural development is, for all practical purposes, unlimited."

Our Vision

We envision a world in which policies are made using the best evidence we have rather than using religious dogma.

www.atheists.org

You can read URL, right? atheists. org

Do you believe the text quoted above is from me.
My claim is that there are atheists, who believe in it, but I am not one of them believing in it. I just state the obvious as based on the link.

 

[gnostic]

And btw, mikkel. I’m an agnostic, not atheist.

Well, I acknowledge that you are an atheist.
But you are not the only one.

Agnostic, not atheist.

So you are just to ignore what I say, about me being agnostic, because you don’t care what I tell you about myself.

So you are going to continue the lie? Classy...

how about acknowledging what I tell you about myself, because as of now, you are just liar in my eyes.