Evidence That Jesus Is God

[Faithofchristian]

In Revelation 4 a door was opened in heaven and John saw the immortalized saints represented by the 24 elders and the 4 beasts. They represent the city of God which comes down from heaven. They are the ones who, with Jesus, will execute God's judgments that have been written and sealed with seven seals. Of which only the Lamb was worthy to open.

As to where are getting that from?

As there is no where in Revelation 4 that saying anything about a city or saints.

 

[LightofTruth]

Can you show and give in the book of Revelation where it said as your saying.
What chapter and verses in Revelation is that written at.

Before the establishment of God's kingdom on earth, God's judgments against His people and the nations will take place. The man of sin, called the red dragon in Revelation, will first be revealed.
Now, in order that the saints be involved in the execution of God's judgments, they must first be raised and enter heaven where John had seen them. They will come with Jesus to execute the written judgments.
The way in which God executes judgments upon his people is by famine, pestilence and sword.
The saints will be with Jesus in the execution of these judgments as recorded in the book of Revelation.

 

[LightofTruth]

I find it hard to understand how anyone can give that crazy book of Revelation a second glance. I reckon the author was stoned out of his mind when he concocted it.

Actually, the book of revelation is prophecy. And in order to understand it one must compare it with O.T. prophecy which speaks of the same things as Revelation. Prophets like Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel and others.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Before the establishment of God's kingdom on earth, God's judgments against His people and the nations will take place. The man of sin, called the red dragon in Revelation, will first be revealed.
Now, in order that the saints be involved in the execution of God's judgments, they must first be raised and enter heaven where John had seen them. They will come with Jesus to execute the written judgments.
The way in which God executes judgments upon his people is by famine, pestilence and sword.
The saints will be with Jesus in the execution of these judgments as recorded in the book of Revelation.

Who is that man of sin, the son of perdition?
Who's the red dragon?
God's not executing judgement on his people, but on those who are found in worshipping the AntiChrist, When Jesus Christ returns.
Those that come with Jesus Christ has already been chosen and called, so there's no executing judgement on them.

Have you any clue or idea when that happens, When Jesus and the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses. Revelation 19:14-21.

When does this take place?

 

[LightofTruth]

As to where are getting that from?

As there is no where in Revelation 4 that saying anything about a city or saints.

The 24 elders are clothed in white with gold crowns on their heads. White linen is the righteousness of the saints who have been crowned as kings.

Isaiah 61:10 “I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.”

 

[JJ50]

Actually, the book of revelation is prophecy. And in order to understand it one must compare it with O.T. prophecy which speaks of the same things as Revelation. Prophets like Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel and others.

That book of garbage can be interpreted in loads of different ways, to suit a particular POV.
I am sure someone will find a verse in Revelation, which they believe relates to the Brexit debacle we have in the UK at present.

 

[LightofTruth]

Who is that man of sin, the son of perdition?
Who's the red dragon?

He will be a leader of the Jewish people. He will claim for himself to be God and set up the abomination that makes desolate in the Temple. he will cause people to worship that image and persecute all who do not.

God's not executing judgement on his people, but on those who are found in worshipping the AntiChrist, When Jesus Christ returns.
Those that come with Jesus Christ has already been chosen and called, so there's no executing judgement on them.

God's people are still the Jewish people. They are still in covenant with Him under the laws.
The saints who will be raised are not judged, but instead will judge the world with Christ.

Have you any clue or idea when that happens, When Jesus and the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses. Revelation 19:14-21.

The defeat of the nations will come by the 144,000 who refused to worship the beast and his image. They are not immortalized saints but mortal believers in Christ. The immortalized saints work behind the visible

When does this take place?

First there will be the resurrection of the faithful, then their coming with Jesus to execute God's judgments.

 

[LightofTruth]

That book of garbage can be interpreted in loads of different ways, to suit a particular POV.
I am sure someone will find a verse in Revelation, which they believe relates to the Brexit debacle we have in the UK at present.

Many people try to add their own ideas into the Bible. For example, a great majority in Christianity has concluded the Papacy as the whore of Revelation when the Bible specifically says that Jerusalem and her people are the whore.

 

[JJ50]

Many people try to add their own ideas into the Bible. For example, a great majority in Christianity has concluded the Papacy as the whore of Revelation when the Bible specifically says that Jerusalem and her people are the whore.

You add your own take on that book too, as is evident from your posts.

 

[LightofTruth]

You add your own take on that book too, as is evidence from your posts.

My understanding of Revelation comes from many years of comparing Scripture with Scripture. It's the only way to rightly understand the book. I've added nothing that can not be shown from Scripture itself.

 

[JJ50]

My understanding of Revelation comes from many years of comparing Scripture with Scripture. It's the only way to rightly understand the book. I've added nothing that can not be shown from Scripture itself.

That is your take on it.

 

[LightofTruth]

That is your take on it.

Where is the papacy ever mentioned in Scripture? NOWHERE!

The RCC has as much place in Scripture as the Mormons. ZERO!

The nations to God are as a drop in the bucket.

"Behold, the nations are as a drop in a bucket, And are counted as the small dust on the scales; Look, He lifts up the isles as a very little thing." Isa 40:15

 

[JJ50]

Where is the papacy ever mentioned in Scripture? NOWHERE!

The RCC has as much place in Scripture as the Mormons. ZERO!

The nations to God are as a drop in the bucket.

"Behold, the nations are as a drop in a bucket, And are counted as the small dust on the scales; Look, He lifts up the isles as a very little thing." Isa 40:15

What a nonsense verse, like so many of them.

 

[LightofTruth]

What a nonsense verse, like so many of them.

 

[LightofTruth]

No Pope has ever even seen a prophet let alone having killed them.

 

[JJ50]

I reckon the character of Jesus was created by the gospel writers to take into account the so called prophesies in the OT.

 

[THE Art Vandelay]

Jesus is NOT and NEVER has been God. He is, in fact according to scripture, the only-begotten SON of God. Not only do the scriptures bear that out, but Jesus' own words bear that out as over and over again he would refer to his "father". This "father" was the one who sent Jesus to the earth, was the one who gave Jesus the message that he preached, and the one who resurrected Jesus back to life after his death. This "father" was always someone superior to Jesus and separate from Jesus. Jesus' own apostles and disciples never considered Jesus to be God, but the SON of God only.

 

[BilliardsBall]

.

Looking through the Bible the closest thing I could find is that at most Jesus was the son of god. In fact, several times Jesus made a distinction between god and himself. (The notion that he was one of "three coeternal consubstantial persons" wasn't finally formulated until 381AD.)
.

Both Jesus and his apostles identified him as divine. The Apostle Peter described Jesus as “our God and Savior” (2 Peter 1:1; cf. Titus 2:13) and called on believers to “honor Christ the Lord as holy” (1 Peter 3:15).18 Jesus’ own half-brother James, who was an unbeliever at first (John 7:5), described him as “the Lord of glory” (James 2:1; cf. 1 Corinthians 2:8; Psalm 24:7–8). What man or prophet could be described in this way? The Apostle John also attributed titles to Jesus that were used only of God by describing him as the “Alpha and Omega” and the “first and the last” (Revelation 22:13; 1:8, 17–18; cf. Isaiah 44:6). The writer of the book of Hebrews also has insight into the identity of Jesus In Hebrews 1, the author identifies Jesus (the Son) as superior to any prophet (vv. 1–2), above the angels (v. 5), worthy of our worship (vv. 6–8; cf. Psalm 45:6–7), and the creator of all things who is unchangeable (vv. 2–3, 10; cf. Psalm 102:25). The author of Hebrews further states that Jesus is “seated at the right hand of the throne of God” (Hebrews 12:2; cf. Acts 2:30).

The early believers were JEWISH, and Jewish prayer is something that should be addressed to God alone, but Jesus calls his disciples to pray to him (John 14:13–14; 16:26). In the book of Acts when Stephen is being stoned to death, he calls out to the Lord Jesus to receive his sprit (Acts 7:59). Interestingly, the term for “calling on” (epikaloumenon) recalls the appeal of Peter to the people in Acts 2:21 to “call on” (epikaleshtai) the Lord to be saved. Paul also describes the Corinthians as those who “call upon [epikaleo] the name of our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Corinthians 1:2). In the Old Testament, people “called on” on the name of Yahweh (Joel 2:32). The Corinthians were people who addressed Jesus as Lord in prayer.

 

[LightofTruth]

Jesus is NOT and NEVER has been God. He is, in fact according to scripture, the only-begotten SON of God. Not only do the scriptures bear that out, but Jesus' own words bear that out as over and over again he would refer to his "father". This "father" was the one who sent Jesus to the earth, was the one who gave Jesus the message that he preached, and the one who resurrected Jesus back to life after his death. This "father" was always someone superior to Jesus and separate from Jesus. Jesus' own apostles and disciples never considered Jesus to be God, but the SON of God only.

To be in company with jesus it would be hard not to think he was "God with us". In a representative sense.

 

[THE Art Vandelay]

Both Jesus and his apostles identified him as divine. The Apostle Peter described Jesus as “our God and Savior” (2 Peter 1:1; cf. Titus 2:13) and called on believers to “honor Christ the Lord as holy” (1 Peter 3:15).18 Jesus’ own half-brother James, who was an unbeliever at first (John 7:5), described him as “the Lord of glory” (James 2:1; cf. 1 Corinthians 2:8; Psalm 24:7–8). What man or prophet could be described in this way? The Apostle John also attributed titles to Jesus that were used only of God by describing him as the “Alpha and Omega” and the “first and the last” (Revelation 22:13; 1:8, 17–18; cf. Isaiah 44:6). The writer of the book of Hebrews also has insight into the identity of Jesus In Hebrews 1, the author identifies Jesus (the Son) as superior to any prophet (vv. 1–2), above the angels (v. 5), worthy of our worship (vv. 6–8; cf. Psalm 45:6–7), and the creator of all things who is unchangeable (vv. 2–3, 10; cf. Psalm 102:25). The author of Hebrews further states that Jesus is “seated at the right hand of the throne of God” (Hebrews 12:2; cf. Acts 2:30).

The early believers were JEWISH, and Jewish prayer is something that should be addressed to God alone, but Jesus calls his disciples to pray to him (John 14:13–14; 16:26). In the book of Acts when Stephen is being stoned to death, he calls out to the Lord Jesus to receive his sprit (Acts 7:59). Interestingly, the term for “calling on” (epikaloumenon) recalls the appeal of Peter to the people in Acts 2:21 to “call on” (epikaleshtai) the Lord to be saved. Paul also describes the Corinthians as those who “call upon [epikaleo] the name of our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Corinthians 1:2). In the Old Testament, people “called on” on the name of Yahweh (Joel 2:32). The Corinthians were people who addressed Jesus as Lord in prayer.

Peter never described Jesus as "our God". "Savior", yes. But never as Almighty God. Matthew 16:16 is Peter quoted as saying "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God". The fact that Jesus is often described in scripture as being holy or higher than the angels in no way makes him God. Jesus had always held the second-highest position in the universe, next to God, when he was in heaven and again when he returned to heaven following his earthly death. Your own comment regarding Hebrews 12:2 is further testimony that while Jesus certainly occupies a glorious position in heaven, he sits "at the right hand of the throne of God", and NOT "on the throne as God". The Bible itself shows that Jesus is the mediator between God and man, hence the need for humans to pray TO GOD, but THROUGH Jesus. The fact that Jesus himself regularly engaged in prayer (see all of John chapter 17) further shows his lesser position in relation to God.