Evidence

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Good thing suffering is a bad dream and death is an illusion.

A world without suffering would be a world without pleasure. We feel pleasure when we are healthy and when our cells start to die we feel suffering but this is a constant daily thing for organisms. Death never has full grasp as long as there are organisms still flourishing with life.

The very idea of pleasure is our cells perceiving something without going to the extremes which causes suffering. For example when you stroke your skin it is pleasant but if you scratch to hard it is painful. Pain is an extreme threshold of perception so without perception there would be no pleasure or pain. However all this is merely a manifestation of being in the material world which needs to be escaped in order to escape the cycle of suffering.

Again an omnipotent God can create such a world without the need to feel suffering. When you eat some food you like where you suffering before? It taste good made you feel good but doesn't mean that you had to experience some suffering to enjoy it. The point isn't whether or not suffering allows for pleasure rather it's that there can exist a world with pleasure without having to know suffering (heaven)

 

[cottage]

Since god would be the all knowing being, not us, then it is safe to assume that only God would know if he were really being benevolent or not. We may not see the big picture and what we think will help could harm us in the long run. We can't assume this isn't the best of all worlds without more knowledge.

But we can assume this isn’t the best of all possible worlds. Firstly, there is no contradiction in conceiving of a world without suffering; there is no logically necessary reason for its existence. And clearly it makes no sense to say God lies under some form of compunction to create and maintain a level of suffering, not if he’s omnipotent. Secondly, heaven is a possible world, the best possible world by definition. So if heaven can be free of suffering then why not here on earth? Thirdly, it takes only a single instance of suffering to prove beyond doubt that God, if he exists, is not all-benevolent; but the proof is compounded by every person on this planet of ours who lives, suffers and will die

 

[Thief]

Good thing suffering is a bad dream and death is an illusion.

A world without suffering would be a world without pleasure. We feel pleasure when we are healthy and when our cells start to die we feel suffering but this is a constant daily thing for organisms. Death never has full grasp as long as there are organisms still flourishing with life.

The very idea of pleasure is our cells perceiving something without going to the extremes which causes suffering. For example when you stroke your skin it is pleasant but if you scratch to hard it is painful. Pain is an extreme threshold of perception so without perception there would be no pleasure or pain. However all this is merely a manifestation of being in the material world which needs to be escaped in order to escape the cycle of suffering.

So you anticipate the next life?
No body?...just spirit?

And you have considered the next life to be more 'real' than this?

Do we suffer in our dreams?

If we share our dreams in the spiritual life....
Who is in control?

Will you dream at will....as you please?
Or does the next spirit have control?

Pain and suffering.......no more?

 

[adi2d]

So you anticipate the next life?
No body?...just spirit?

And you have considered the next life to be more 'real' than this?

Do we suffer in our dreams?

If we share our dreams in the spiritual life....
Who is in control?

Will you dream at will....as you please?
Or does the next spirit have control?

Pain and suffering.......no more?

Just curious but I see you have a boatload of posts

Have you ever made a statement? All I see are questions

 

[Thief]

Just curious but I see you have a boatload of posts

Have you ever made a statement? All I see are questions

And the questions I ask...I believe to be obvious.

Most of what goes on here are statements....made by people who seem so sure.

Really?

 

[adi2d]

And the questions I ask...I believe to be obvious.

Most of what goes on here are statements....made by people who seem so sure.

Really?

Ill be the first to admit I've got WAY more questions than I do answers

 

[Enai de a lukal]

Not really, what is suffering to an all powerful being? Does having a bad day mean god doesn't love you or does an all powerful being need to hold our hands at every turn so that we can be coddled and kept away from harm? How are kids supposed to learn if they think the world is all pretty and fluffy all the time?

For one thing, we're talking about gratuitous suffering- suffering/evil which serves no discernable purpose or good; the death of an infant, being born with a debilitating genetic disorder, child molestation, murder, and so on.

Good thing suffering is a bad dream and death is an illusion.

A bad dream we never wake up from- if suffering is not real, then nothing is. And that "death is an illusion" is just a silly thing to say.

A world without suffering would be a world without pleasure.

That doesn't seem to follow. As I said once already, you have to substantiate this because prima facie it just looks false.

Well the thing is that as an omnipotent being God can easily create an existence where suffering is just not necessary (what heaven is supposed to be like), but also preserve free will. So this existence at least seems to contradict a loving God, because there is suffering that under Gods omnipotence is not necessary. Saying that it might be part of a plan limits omnipotence and starts delving towards sadism. Especially when you notice good and bad happens indiscriminately to people.

Exactly. This is the same point I've made before; for an omnipotent being, ANYTHING which is logically possible (not self-contradictory) is achievable- one can have good without evil, perfection without giving up free will, and one can make an omelet without breaking any eggs.

Again an omnipotent God can create such a world without the need to feel suffering. When you eat some food you like where you suffering before? It taste good made you feel good but doesn't mean that you had to experience some suffering to enjoy it. The point isn't whether or not suffering allows for pleasure rather it's that there can exist a world with pleasure without having to know suffering (heaven)

You've hit the nail on the head once again.

 

[Thief]

Again an omnipotent God can create such a world without the need to feel suffering. When you eat some food you like where you suffering before? It taste good made you feel good but doesn't mean that you had to experience some suffering to enjoy it. The point isn't whether or not suffering allows for pleasure rather it's that there can exist a world with pleasure without having to know suffering (heaven)

That was naïve.

Hunger precedes hunting, precedes cooking, precedes feast.

Without the hunger.....nothing else follows.
Without hunger...you won't eat....death is at hand.

Or perhaps you would say....no suffering after death?
No pleasure of heaven.....no suffering in hell.

Or maybe you just don't believe.....and don't want to.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

That was naïve.

Hunger precedes hunting, precedes cooking, precedes feast.

Without the hunger.....nothing else follows.
Without hunger...you won't eat....death is at hand.

Or perhaps you would say....no suffering after death?
No pleasure of heaven.....no suffering in hell.

Or maybe you just don't believe.....and don't want to.

False because you don't need to feel hunger to eat. There is a difference between need and want.

I just ate a cashew why? Because it gives me pleasure, not eating a cashew doesn't make me suffer because a cashew is not a necessity. It is obvious pleasure can be derived from a state other than suffering. One can already be in a state of pleasure and experience more pleasure...but perhaps you do not understand...because you do not want to...

Perhaps your ideal has already been set...your eyes bound to what you know

 

[Thief]

False because you don't need to feel hunger to eat. There is a difference between need and want.

I just ate a cashew why? Because it gives me pleasure, not eating a cashew doesn't make me suffer because a cashew is not a necessity. It is obvious pleasure can be derived from a state other than suffering. One can already be in a state of pleasure and experience more pleasure...but perhaps you do not understand...because you do not want to...

Perhaps your ideal has already been set...your eyes bound to what you know

The previous post (not mine) did not approach gluttony.
Perhaps your vision is too.....blurry.

 

[AndromedaRXJ]

Without hunger...you won't eat....death is at hand.

Not before the person gets hungry.

If someone could hypothetically never get hungry, then they don't need food and won't die(from hunger).

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

The previous post (not mine) did not approach gluttony.
Perhaps your vision is too.....blurry.

You do not know what gluttony is.

Perhaps your mind cannot comprehend

That not all suffering is the same to man...

A possibility...perhaps...

That you have only know suffering...and because of that

You cling to it...because you have never know pleasure.

 

[Thief]

Not before the person gets hungry.

If someone could hypothetically never get hungry, then they don't need food and won't die(from hunger).

Never had an eating disorder?
Look around.

 

[Thief]

You do not know what gluttony is.

Perhaps your mind cannot comprehend

That not all suffering is the same to man...

A possibility...perhaps...

That you have only know suffering...and because of that

You cling to it...because you have never know pleasure.

Too many assumptions.
Try again.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Too many assumptions.
Try again.

not an assumption

hence the use...

a possibility...read in completion

...but perhaps...you cannot see the lines?

To accuse...of assumption

...when you too have assumed...

a moment...reflect

perhaps...you can see

the speck in my eyes...but not the tree...in yours?

 

[Thief]

You do not know what gluttony is.

Perhaps your mind cannot comprehend

That not all suffering is the same to man...

A possibility...perhaps...

That you have only know suffering...and because of that

You cling to it...because you have never know pleasure.

These are your assumptions......they are incorrect.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

These are your assumptions......they are incorrect.

Perhaps...you do not see the irony?

 

[Thief]

Perhaps...you do not see the irony?

So 'point it out'.
Be analytical.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

So 'point it out'.
Be analytical.

You assume about others...and this you are assumed by others.

He who lives by the assumption will die by the assumption.

 

[Thief]

You assume about others...and this you are assumed by others.

He who lives by the assumption will die by the assumption.

I have but one assumption....there is an Almighty.
It's an assumption because there's no ....evidence.

But there is logical and analytical thought.
There are means of developing faith.

Apparently not for you?